Opinion Top 20 of all time

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the distributer said:
No, not IMO anyway, as we must deduct goals from the great FFs of yesteryear because of game plans we must deduct points from FBs of this era because of game plans, kicking goals was much easier in era's past thus making stopping goals harder, kicking goals in Scarletts era was much harder thus making stopping goals easier, the great FBs of yesteryear didn't get the support FBs enjoy now.

The whole concept of best ever is ridiculous anyway, 30+ years ago you could almost call Aussie rules a different game, stats mean nothing.
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so your analogy means that Geelong & Brisbane are basically the greatest teams of all time, correct?

Because what you just said is that football was an easier game 20-30 years ago so we can exclude the likes of Hawthorn, Richmond and Melbourne in the 50's?

That's probably one of the stupidest things I have ever heard but I'm not all that surprised coming from a bitter Collingwood supporter.

What about the free kicks that forwards get in today's game?
Do you have any idea what the past defenders used to get away with.

The whole concept of best ever is ridiculous is it....you would probably believe Leigh Matthews or Gary Ablett, Wayne Carey would be of no use to Collingwood if they could play in today's game right:thumbsdown:
(I guess Dane Swan has surpassed those players in your eyes)
 
bobbycatsfanme said:
so your analogy means that Geelong & Brisbane are basically the greatest teams of all time, correct?

Because what you just said is that football was an easier game 20-30 years ago so we can exclude the likes of Hawthorn, Richmond and Melbourne in the 50's?

That's probably one of the stupidest things I have ever heard but I'm not all that surprised coming from a bitter Collingwood supporter.

What about the free kicks that forwards get in today's game?
Do you have any idea what the past defenders used to get away with.

The whole concept of best ever is ridiculous is it....you would probably believe Leigh Matthews or Gary Ablett, Wayne Carey would be of no use to Collingwood if they could play in today's game right:thumbsdown:
(I guess Dane Swan has surpassed those players in your eyes)
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WTF, where did i say Football was an easier game 20 or 30 years ago?, i said scoring goals was easier, easier for FFs anyway. :rolleyes:

PS, don't post drunk Bobby.
 

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bobbycatsfanme said:
so your analogy means that Geelong & Brisbane are basically the greatest teams of all time, correct?

Because what you just said is that football was an easier game 20-30 years ago so we can exclude the likes of Hawthorn, Richmond and Melbourne in the 50's?

That's probably one of the stupidest things I have ever heard but I'm not all that surprised coming from a bitter Collingwood supporter.

What about the free kicks that forwards get in today's game?
Do you have any idea what the past defenders used to get away with.

The whole concept of best ever is ridiculous is it....you would probably believe Leigh Matthews or Gary Ablett, Wayne Carey would be of no use to Collingwood if they could play in today's game right :thumbsdown:
(I guess Dane Swan has surpassed those players in your eyes)
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The evidence speaks for its self IMO, sure FBs of the past got away with more but so did the FFs, IMO if a player like Hudson was playing today he wouldn't/couldn't kick anywhere near 150 goals and i highly doubt Plugger or Dunstal could get anywhere near 130.

All forwards now days have to have a defensive side to their game, they must rotate, they must participate in zones, they've have to deal with floods, 3rd man up, they must push up etc etc, FFs don't get one on ones anywhere near as much as the great FFs did inside 50, how many goals do you think Buddy would've kicked if he was playing in the 70s? Lioyd? Fev?

I'm not saying the champions of yesteryear couldn't cut it in todays football, i'm just saying they wouldn't be able to put up the numbers they did, so, trying to compare them to todays players is simply impossible, as i said, footy today is almost a different sport compared to the good ole days. IMO
 
perhaps a look at fairest and best rankings for their club, Brownlows and or other awards can give some sort of measure. No one has mentioned Hadyn Bunton senior. I dont know what book it is, a biography maybe, lists his week in week out performance (best players) through most of his career. He was brilliant -an all out champion...but today probably be too small.
 
Jascave said:
1. Leigh Matthews
2. Wayne Carey
3. Gary Ablett snr
4. E.J.Whitten
5. Barrie Robran
6. Peter Hudson
7. Russell Ebert
8. Barry Cable
9. Gordon Coventry
10. Graham 'Polly' Farmer
11. John Nicholls
12. Ron D. Barassi
13. James Hird
14. Chris Judd
15. Michael Tuck
16. Garry McIntosh
17. Michael Aish
18. Darrell Baldock
19. Stephen Michael
20. Bob Skilton
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Your attempts to include players outside of the Victorian border is admirable there Jascave, but i have noticed you continually include Michael Aish. I can tell you something for nothing here, there are about a 1000 footballers out there that are better than Michael Aish.
 
The only mordern day players that could be included in the top 20 of all time by the end of their careers, are Ablett & Franklin. They aren't there yet obviously, but they have the ability to be two of the greatest ever. It will be fun watching them!
 
A lot of this is based on record and reputation. I've tried to take other state competitions into consideration as well. Anyway, here is my list:

1 - Wayne Carey
2 - Leigh Matthews
3 - Gary Ablett Snr.
4 - Haydn Bunton Snr.
5 - Tony Lockett
6 - Peter Hudson
7 - Ted Whitten
8 - Graham Farmer (WAFL/VFL)
9 - John Coleman
10- Ian Stewart
11- Barrie Robran (SANFL)
12- Dick Reynolds
13- Bob Skilton
14- Ken Farmer (SANFL)
15- Gordon Coventry
16- Gary Ablett Jnr.
17- Ron Barassi
18- Michael Voss
19- Russell Ebert (SANFL)
20- Stephen Michael (WAFL)

Out of the 20, I've only seen 5 play in my lifetime... so a lot of this order is opinion from what I've read and seen in documentaries.

My top-4 are non negotiables... simply the best 4 players ever.

Lockett at 5 because he would dominate ANY era. People look at 1360 goals and acclaim him for that, but he missed a fair chunk of his peak years (1988-1993) with injury and suspension. He could/should have kicked 1600+ goals.

Hudson at 6 because of his record. Again, he should have kicked 1100+ goals had it not been for injury and Tasmania footy.

Whitten at 7 because he is Mr. Football. His record isn't amazing when you look at it... but his reputation is second to none. Must mean something.

Farmer at 8 because he revolutionized the sport with his play. Freak talent.

Coleman at 9 only because he got injured. Old timers go into a trance when they say how good he was. Could have been the best ever, but we will never know.

Stewart at 10 because his record is amazing and footage I've seen shows a bloke who was so much better than the rest of the competition.

Robran at 11 on reputation like Whitten. I know very little about him, but his reputation as the best player in SANFL history is enough.

Reynolds at 12. Record is amazing... but Bunton was better in the 1930s. I could have him on par with Stewart and Robran. Not much separating them.

Skilton at 13. Again... three Brownlows, but probably the weaker of the three in my opinion. Still a legend and champion though. Just not on a Bunton/Stewart/Reynolds level.

Farmer at 14. This blokes record is amazing. 1419 goals in 224 games in the SANFL. Average 6.33 goals per game. Only thing stopping him being higher is the standard of competition. How can I compare VFL and SANFL?

Coventry at 15. Farmer is better in my opinion... but second most AFL goals kicked means he has to be included.

Ablett Jnr at 16. Best current footballer, and just a freak to watch. 3 AFL MVPs is a massive reason too. Will probably finish career in the top 10 players ever.

Barassi at 17 because of record again. Premierships, reputation, etc.

Voss at 18. Just a great record, leadership, skill, toughness. Triple premiership.

Ebert and Michael rounding it off at 19 & 20. Just on reputation and record. Very hard to judge due to little or no VFL experience... but both are definitely worthy of inclusion.
 
Papa G said:
Your attempts to include players outside of the Victorian border is admirable there Jascave, but i have noticed you continually include Michael Aish. I can tell you something for nothing here, there are about a 1000 footballers out there that are better than Michael Aish.
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Aish was a great footballer, but he and Gary McIntosh don't deserve to be in a "best ever" list. If SA born players are included, this should include Robran, Ebert, and Ken Farmer
 
carey was an oustanding mark when u consider that he really didn't lift his arms over his head, it was all just leap and timing for chest marks. makes me wonder if he could've done something similar as a small player who could take genuine overhead marks.
 
mfcrox said:
A lot of this is based on record and reputation. I've tried to take other state competitions into consideration as well. Anyway, here is my list:

1 - Wayne Carey
2 - Leigh Matthews
3 - Gary Ablett Snr.
4 - Haydn Bunton Snr.
5 - Tony Lockett
6 - Peter Hudson
7 - Ted Whitten
8 - Graham Farmer (WAFL/VFL)
9 - John Coleman
10- Ian Stewart
11- Barrie Robran (SANFL)
12- Dick Reynolds
13- Bob Skilton
14- Ken Farmer (SANFL)
15- Gordon Coventry
16- Gary Ablett Jnr.
17- Ron Barassi
18- Michael Voss
19- Russell Ebert (SANFL)
20- Stephen Michael (WAFL)

Out of the 20, I've only seen 5 play in my lifetime... so a lot of this order is opinion from what I've read and seen in documentaries.

My top-4 are non negotiables... simply the best 4 players ever.

Lockett at 5 because he would dominate ANY era. People look at 1360 goals and acclaim him for that, but he missed a fair chunk of his peak years (1988-1993) with injury and suspension. He could/should have kicked 1600+ goals.

Hudson at 6 because of his record. Again, he should have kicked 1100+ goals had it not been for injury and Tasmania footy.

Whitten at 7 because he is Mr. Football. His record isn't amazing when you look at it... but his reputation is second to none. Must mean something.

Farmer at 8 because he revolutionized the sport with his play. Freak talent.

Coleman at 9 only because he got injured. Old timers go into a trance when they say how good he was. Could have been the best ever, but we will never know.

Stewart at 10 because his record is amazing and footage I've seen shows a bloke who was so much better than the rest of the competition.

Robran at 11 on reputation like Whitten. I know very little about him, but his reputation as the best player in SANFL history is enough.

Reynolds at 12. Record is amazing... but Bunton was better in the 1930s. I could have him on par with Stewart and Robran. Not much separating them.

Skilton at 13. Again... three Brownlows, but probably the weaker of the three in my opinion. Still a legend and champion though. Just not on a Bunton/Stewart/Reynolds level.

Farmer at 14. This blokes record is amazing. 1419 goals in 224 games in the SANFL. Average 6.33 goals per game. Only thing stopping him being higher is the standard of competition. How can I compare VFL and SANFL?

Coventry at 15. Farmer is better in my opinion... but second most AFL goals kicked means he has to be included.

Ablett Jnr at 16. Best current footballer, and just a freak to watch. 3 AFL MVPs is a massive reason too. Will probably finish career in the top 10 players ever.

Barassi at 17 because of record again. Premierships, reputation, etc.

Voss at 18. Just a great record, leadership, skill, toughness. Triple premiership.

Ebert and Michael rounding it off at 19 & 20. Just on reputation and record. Very hard to judge due to little or no VFL experience... but both are definitely worthy of inclusion.
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Sorry mate but the bolded is ridiculous, yes he was a tripple premiership captain but he was also captain of a team that had an extra million dollars in their cap each year, at the time the very best players were on around 400k, do the math, Buckley led a team of has beens and never have beens and got within 8 points of them.

As a player Voss was a star no doubt, but he doesn't belong on that list mate.
 

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the distributer said:
Sorry mate but the bolded is ridiculous, yes he was a tripple premiership captain but he was also captain of a team that had an extra million dollars in their cap each year, at the time the very best players were on around 400k, do the math, Buckley led a team of has beens and never have beens and got within 8 points of them.

As a player Voss was a star no doubt, but he doesn't belong on that list mate.
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Mike Sheehan had him as the 19th greatest player ever and ranked him better than Hird. He belongs there.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsid=55909

He was a champion.
 
the distributer said:
The same Mike Sheehan who ranked Goddard the no2 best player in the comp pre 2011? lol.

Better than Hird my ass!!
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I dunno. Everyone I know rate him amongst the best players ever. Around Hirds level, and ahead of Buckley & Cousins. Michael Voss achieved so many more accolades than Hird & Buckley. He was a 5 x B&F winner, 5 x All Australian, Brownlow medalist, triple premiership captain, and get this... A 2 x MVP winner. When the Lions won those three flags, he was in top form and won the MVP in 2002 and 2003. You are seriously underrating this guy in my opinion. He was a freak, and his achievements stack up against anyone to ever play.
 
HyperAgressiveDonk said:
I dunno. Everyone I know rate him amongst the best players ever. Around Hirds level, and ahead of Buckley & Cousins. Michael Voss achieved so many more accolades than Hird & Buckley. He was a 5 x B&F winner, 5 x All Australian, Brownlow medalist, triple premiership captain, and get this... A 2 x MVP winner. When the Lions won those three flags, he was in top form and won the MVP in 2002 and 2003. You are seriously underrating this guy in my opinion. He was a freak, and his achievements stack up against anyone to ever play.
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No they don't.

Nathen Buckley.
AFL


Buckely was a 6 time BaF winner.
Rising star winner (meaning he was good from the get go)
7 time AA.
Norm Smith medalist.
Brownlow Medalist. (also went in favourite many times)
Every media award atleast once.
Coaches award.

Buckley was simply better for longer.

5 AAs aren't as good as 7.

5 BaFs aren't as good as 6.

No norm smiths aren't as good as 1.

No Rising stars aren't as good as 1.

So how TF did Voss achieve more accolades than Buckley? premierships are team awards, not individual.

Buckley also won a Magarey medal at 17 lol.
 
the distributer said:
No they don't.

Nathen Buckley.
AFL

Buckely was a 6 time BaF winner.
Rising star winner (meaning he was good from the get go)
7 time AA.
Norm Smith medalist.
Brownlow Medalist.
Every media award atleast once.
Coaches award.
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So Buckley has 1 more B&F ( Voss played in much better teams than Buckley, so it's harder to win B&Fs )
Buckley has 2 more AAs.
Buckley has a Norm Smith medal that Voss doesn't.
Buckley has a coaches award that Voss doesn't

On the other hand

Voss is a 3 x premiership captain and captained one of the great sides of all time.
Voss has 2 MVPS that Buckley doesn't.

The 2 MVPS that Voss has would equal the Coaches award and Norm Smith medal that Buckley has.

Being a 3 x Premiership captain like Voss, is so much better than having one or two extra B&Fs and AAs like Buckley had.

Voss and Buckley are pretty close on "individual" achievements, but it's the fact Voss is a 3 x premeirship captain, that makes him better than Buckley.

I think they are both champions, but I would take Voss every time. He was one of the greatest leaders to ever play.

In my opinion Ablett Jnr>Voss>Hird>Buckley, Judd & Cousins> then the next line of mids like Black, Crawford, West, Harvey, Akermanis and co in the next tier.
 
I have Voss ahead of Hird, Buckley, Harvey, Ricciuto, etc.

He was an out-and-out champion and a freak of a player. Yes, he won premierships in a team of champions... But he wasn't always surrounded by the champions that he had during the three-peat era. He also dragged the club through the hard years of the mid-late 90s as well.

Again, it's an opinion list... and in my opinion he is one of the best players I've seen. Yes, even ahead of the above champions I mentioned.
 
HyperAgressiveDonk said:
So Buckley has 1 more B&F ( Voss played in much better teams than Buckley, so it's harder to win B&Fs )
Buckley has 2 more AAs.
Buckley has a Norm Smith medal that Voss doesn't.
Buckley has a coaches award that Voss doesn't

On the other hand

Voss is a 3 x premiership captain and captained one of the great sides of all time.
Voss has 2 MVPS that Buckley doesn't.

The 2 MVPS that Voss has would equal the Coaches award and Norm Smith medal that Buckley has.

Being a 3 x Premiership captain like Voss, is so much better than having one or two extra B&Fs and AAs like Buckley had.

Voss and Buckley are pretty close on "individual" achievements, but it's the fact Voss is a 3 x premeirship captain, that makes him better than Buckley.

I think they are both champions, but I would take Voss every time. He was one of the greatest leaders to ever play.

In my opinion Ablett Jnr>Voss>Hird>Buckley, Judd & Cousins> then the next line of mids like Black, Crawford, West, Harvey, Akermanis and co in the next tier.
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I agree 100%
 
HyperAgressiveDonk said:
So Buckley has 1 more B&F ( Voss played in much better teams than Buckley, so it's harder to win B&Fs )
Buckley has 2 more AAs.
Buckley has a Norm Smith medal that Voss doesn't.
Buckley has a coaches award that Voss doesn't

On the other hand

Voss is a 3 x premiership captain and captained one of the great sides of all time.
Voss has 2 MVPS that Buckley doesn't.

The 2 MVPS that Voss has would equal the Coaches award and Norm Smith medal that Buckley has.

Being a 3 x Premiership captain like Voss, is so much better than having one or two extra B&Fs and AAs like Buckley had.

Voss and Buckley are pretty close on "individual" achievements, but it's the fact Voss is a 3 x premeirship captain, that makes him better than Buckley.

I think they are both champions, but I would take Voss every time. He was one of the greatest leaders to ever play.

In my opinion Ablett Jnr>Voss>Hird>Buckley, Judd & Cousins> then the next line of mids like Black, Crawford, West, Harvey, Akermanis and co in the next tier.
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Which has what to do with this? premierships are team awards, not individual, Buckley also copped a tag week in week out for the better part of 10 years, Voss did not.

Is Nick Maxwell a better player than Ablett senior now? Nick is a premiership captain after all.

I'm also not saying who the better player was, but to say Voss 'recieved so many more accolades than Buckley or Hird' is ridiculous.
 
Buckley belongs in the "most overated list" going around.

Should never be mentioned in the same sentence as Voss and Hird and more recently Judd and Ablett Jnr.
 
the distributer said:
Which has what to do with this? premierships are team awards, not individual, Buckley also copped a tag week in week out for the better part of 10 years, Voss did not.

Is Nick Maxwell a better player than Ablett senior now? Nick is a premiership captain after all.

I'm also not saying who the better player was, but to say Voss 'recieved so many more accolades than Buckley or Hird' is ridiculous.
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If it was by accolades, them I would have had Michael Tuck in to... however, it was best footballers, and I rate Voss ahead of Buckley as a footballer. It's an opinion, same as you have your opinion. Care to get the thread back on track and share your Top 20 players list?
 
mfcrox said:
If it was by accolades, them I would have had Michael Tuck in to... however, it was best footballers, and I rate Voss ahead of Buckley as a footballer. It's an opinion, same as you have your opinion. Care to get the thread back on track and share your Top 20 players list?
Click to expand...

I quoted HAD because he said Voss achieved more Accolades, i simply proved him wrong, that OK with you?

A premiership is a team accolade, not individual, if Lappin/Power/Black were captain of that side they still wouldve won the flags, no doubt.

Also, at least one of Voss's MVPs are tainted IMO, the Lions played as a team, they also voted as a team (as they did with Ryan Lonie), take the time to look at Voss's 2003 MVP and you'll realise somethings amiss, the guy averaged 21.4 disposals and kicked 20 goals, and remember, this was one year after the lions made a mockery of the voting system with 'systematic voting' now lets look at Buckleys 2003 stats, 27.8 with 23 goals (Brownlow medalist), i don't care what planet you're from, but something is certainly amiss there.
 
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