What Shane Tuck Does - 2012 Thread

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Personally I fee l that the Tuck decision was from Craig Cameron... our list manager. Probably from talking to his Melbourne mates on how to try and turn a list around the fastest.

Tuck ealry last season was played out of position.... like they wanted him to fail... to expose his weakness without letting him play his natural...elite... game.

Tuck is simply a contesting war horse... he competes. He has enormous strength andcan vice the ball out of a pack. Something that not many players in the comp can do.... I hold winning the ball as the number 1 quality we should look for in a player.
Personally DH missed an opurtunity last season turning Tuck into a handball machine. Just tell Tuck to "go get the ball" ... then off load it to Trent or Dustin.... or fluffy Grigg.

Tell Tuck to show the youngsters how hard you need to fight to win the ball.... how hard you have to fight to keep your spot in the side. Because there is one player on our list that seems to have to fight for his spot more than anyone...TUCK... even though he is our best competitor. DH love affair of "bloody" jake king should have been directed at Tuck for the same reasosn.

This was my biggest frustration last season ....obviously... lol.... and I wanted to see Martin and Cotch burts away from packs after being fed from Tucky... and thats what I would have thought would have been best for our development.

 

[_RT_]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

I think the club did a back flip personally. The backlash from the treatment of Tuck went far and wide. The rumours that Tuck was being held back so we didn;t have to extend his contract were strong.

Yet despite these rumours Tuck was re-signed fairly early in the piece.

The comments from Cotchin last season and now Newman..... I think the club was forced to change their decision.

I look at the Melbourne and how they went WAY too far when the gutted their list... young players playing in positions where there were no experienced players to guide them.

Melbourne delisted their older players like McDonald and Bruce, we simply put Tuck on the back burner for 12 months and then brought him back into the side.

Lets be honest... DH was hoping that someone would take Tucks spot... without realising (for the second year in a row) how important Tuck is. Only Cotchin has shown he can extract the ball as good as Tuck. Now do we want Cotchin on the bottom of packs??? or outside ????

No doubt Hardwick was looking to see if someone would step up and be capable of replacing Tuck. Thats what you do when you're rebuilding, you look at the kids you have and see what they can bring to the table. Last year we found out plenty and its no coincidence that with Tuck being added to those kids, our ability to win clearances and contested footy has improved dramatically.

Ok lets look at the team with argubly the best you mids in the comp... GWS... hmmm why did Sheeds and Mark Williams, two premiership coaches feel the need to put Power and a 34 year old Mcdonald... into the side??? 2 players that will retire at years end most likely...hmmmm short term think you would say??? definately NOT... they are looking at the long term development of their young players... to learn of battle harden proffesionals.... They know the value of onfield leaders... and that YOU CANT throw kids to the wolves too early. GC also got muture age mids as well.

There is plenty of talk around that Power and McDonald will only play about 1/2 - 2/3 of the games, much like Tuck did last year, so that when the kids need a rest they can take one. For the majority of the year Sheedy will be pumping games into his kids to being on their development.

Another point you can answer me ???/ Why did DH play Cousins??? yet couldn't afford the luxury of playing TUCK???

With Cousins last year we were in the first stage of the plan as such we needed to play a few more older blokes. Last year we had moved onto the nest stage of the plan, which required finding out what the kids were capable of. As such Tuck was left out to enable us to play that extra kid.

You talk about finding out what players can do..... well if DH needs to work out that young players cant keep the work load up for extended periods of the season and game time then we surely need to find a new coach... I'm all for spreading the load... but I like to put enough vegimite on my knife to cover the bread. What DH did was create a whole too great to fill.... especially in the absence of Deledio and Cousins out of the middle last season. It was there for everyone to see... statistically we were getting SMASHED in the middle.
Our season revival started when Tuck was put back in the side... Martins was able to turn his form around and played with more freedom.

You think that Hardwick didn't know that the kids would stuggle to run out games. Of course he knew it, but was prepared to cop that short term pain for the longer term gain that it should deliver in the next couple of years. Again its all part of the overall plan when rebuilding a side from the ground up.

Last season we should have fine tuned Cotchin and Martin outside work... not treat them like battering rams.

What we've done though is make them more well rounded players. We now know that we can put them in the square at any time and still be a decent shot at winning the clearance or at worst break even and force another stoppage.

And this season our backline worries me ... Playing Post, Rance, Grimes, Batchelor, Ellis and Morris???? Looks to me DH is going to throw the Backs to the wolves. How long will it take to make the decision that even with his flaws the experience that Mcguane has should make him our first back picked.

I watched us live at Geelong last weekend and I had no worries about our backline and how it worked. They held their structures well, covered for each other and provided plenty of rebound out of the backline. Lets not forget that we also have Newman and Houli that will be part of the backline for most of the season.

McGuane will only be needed if a) someone gets injured or b) someone has really poor form.

I think we are setting Post up to fail personally because I dont think he is ready... I will predict that he will play the first 4-5 games until we are forced to drop him because he isn't upto it.... thats what throwing a player to wolves is... What this will do to Posts long term confidence will be ingrained into him... I doint think he is a player that will get back from this constent in and out of the side.

Going by the reports Post knows that the heat is on this season and has done all he can to prepare himself for the battle. From what I've seen of him this year he is stepping up to the challenge and has played some decent footy without starring.

He needs to EARN his spot.... through Coburg not pre-season fluff games.

He earnt his spot last year with quite good form at Coburg last year and got his chance in the last 4 games of 2011. McGuane has had his chance to make CHB/FB his and has failed so we now move on to the next option. Any way this thread is about Tuck so lets get back to that.

Why cant we do what Malthouse does???? he plays the hacks in the senoirs until, the younsgters are ready... Why is it that MM's youngsters always seem ready??? hmmm because he doesn;t play them until they are... especially KPP's. He uses player like Anthony until he knows Dawes has finished his apprenticship in the two's... Dawes walks into the side and is an instant success. I'll be all day talking about his backs...

Its quite simple, Malthouse has never had to gut and strip back his list like we have had to do in the last couple of years. Thats what allowed him to take his time with some of his kids while at the Pies.

With what Hardwick and the club are doing now, we should hopefully be in a position in years to come where we don't have to throw kids in the deep end from the start. Interestingly enough it would seem that we're almost at that point, with guys like Arnot Helbig Elton Griffiths and the like being able to develop at Coburg this year.

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Its quite simple, Malthouse has never had to gut and strip back his list like we have had to do in the last couple of years. Thats what allowed him to take his time with some of his kids while at the Pies.

.

Thats crap.... how many players played in the 2010 premiership side that played in the GF side of 2003???? 1
Malthouse built his next top side whilst playing the older guys around his youngsters... Slowly bringing them in when they were ready.

Back burner???? So all your talk about tuck not being upto it??? was that just a ploy to keep the real "apparent reason" a secret??? The real reason we are hiding Tucky for next season.... I've heard it all now....lol. So whats the plan for Tuck next season??



Tuck was signed at the end of the season after he showed why he was so important in the side and because the club was being critised from left right and centre..... and they looked pretty stupid.

No No when you rebuild you play players when they are ready... you have experienced players around them to show them the way... You dont gut your list and leave your kids vunerable.... like melbourne do... you do what Collingwood does and use your apparent hacks like...lets say Mcguane... and you play him until you are 100% sure a replacement is ready... so when the kid comes in he knows he has earnt his spot and he is ready... this is called development. You dont throw your baby into the water and hope it can swim. Especially if you dont have someone around them who can swim.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Back burner???? So all your talk about tuck not being upto it??? was that just a ploy to keep the real "apparent reason" a secret??? The real reason we are hiding Tucky for next season.... I've heard it all now....lol. So whats the plan for Tuck next season??




Thats a fair call...

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

I think the club did a back flip personally. The backlash from the treatment of Tuck went far and wide. The rumours that Tuck was being held back so we didn;t have to extend his contract were strong.

The comments from Cotchin last season and now Newman..... I think the club was forced to change their decision.

I look at the Melbourne and how they went WAY too far when the gutted their list... young players playing in positions where there were no experienced players to guide them.

Lets be honest... DH was hoping that someone would take Tucks spot... without realising (for the second year in a row) how important Tuck is. Only Cotchin has shown he can extract the ball as good as Tuck. Now do we want Cotchin on the bottom of packs??? or outside ????

Ok lets look at the team with argubly the best you mids in the comp... GWS... hmmm why did Sheeds and Mark Williams, two premiership coaches feel the need to put Power and a 34 year old Mcdonald... into the side??? 2 players that will retire at years end most likely...hmmmm short term think you would say??? definately NOT... they are looking at the long term development of their young players... to learn of battle harden proffesionals.... They know the value of onfield leaders... and that YOU CANT throw kids to the wolves too early. GC also got muture age mids as well.

Another point you can answer me ???/ Why did DH play Cousins??? yet couldn't afford the luxury of playing TUCK???



You talk about finding out what players can do..... well if DH needs to work out that young players cant keep the work load up for extended periods of the season and game time then we surely need to find a new coach... I'm all for spreading the load... but I like to put enough vegimite on my knife to cover the bread. What DH did was create a whole too great to fill.... especially in the absence of Deledio and Cousins out of the middle last season. It was there for everyone to see... statistically we were getting SMASHED in the middle.
Our season revival started when Tuck was put back in the side... Martins was able to turn his form around and played with more freedom.

Last season we should have fine tuned Cotchin and Martin outside work... not treat them like battering rams.



And this season our backline worries me ... Playing Post, Rance, Grimes, Batchelor, Ellis and Morris???? Looks to me DH is going to throw the Backs to the wolves. How long will it take to make the decision that even with his flaws the experience that Mcguane has should make him our first back picked.
I think we are setting Post up to fail personally because I dont think he is ready... I will predict that he will play the first 4-5 games until we are forced to drop him because he isn't upto it.... thats what throwing a player to wolves is... What this will do to Posts long term confidence will be ingrained into him... I doint think he is a player that will get back from this constent in and out of the side.

He needs to EARN his spot.... through Coburg not pre-season fluff games.

Why cant we do what Malthouse does???? he plays the hacks in the senoirs until, the younsgters are ready... Why is it that MM's youngsters always seem ready??? hmmm because he doesn;t play them until they are... especially KPP's. He uses player like Anthony until he knows Dawes has finished his apprenticship in the two's... Dawes walks into the side and is an instant success. I'll be all day talking about his backs...

Do you mind posting a link to 'THE COMMENTS ' ? As I have not heard not seen anything from anyone at the club , including Shane Tuck , indicating that his admission from our side last season was a mistake or any indicating similar ?

 

[_RT_]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Thats crap.... how many players played in the 2010 premiership side that played in the GF side of 2003???? 1
Malthouse built his next top side whilst playing the older guys around his youngsters... Slowly bringing them in when they were ready.

Is that so? By my count, Didak B.Johnson Swan Davis Presti & Maxwell were all on the Pies list in 2003. Fraser O'Bree & Lockyer were also on the list as well.

As for letting kids develop before throwing them in, Beams and Sidebottom were in their second years and playing their 43rd and 36th games in the 2010 GF. While Pendlebury Thomas Shaw and Cloke are others who were also thrown in pretty much from the start of their careers.

Back burner???? So all your talk about tuck not being upto it??? was that just a ploy to keep the real "apparent reason" a secret??? The real reason we are hiding Tucky for next season.... I've heard it all now....lol. So whats the plan for Tuck next season??

I've already admitted that I misread the Tuck situation last year. After talking to a few insiders about what was going on I now understand what they were trying to do.

Tuck was signed at the end of the season after he showed why he was so important in the side and because the club was being critised from left right and centre..... and they looked pretty stupid.

He was among the first to be re-signed though and this was despite many saying that Tuck would be cut because he failed to play enough games to get an automatic renewal.

No No when you rebuild you play players when they are ready... you have experienced players around them to show them the way... You dont gut your list and leave your kids vunerable.... like melbourne do... you do what Collingwood does and use your apparent hacks like...lets say Mcguane... and you play him until you are 100% sure a replacement is ready... so when the kid comes in he knows he has earnt his spot and he is ready... this is called development. You dont throw your baby into the water and hope it can swim. Especially if you dont have someone around them who can swim.

As shown above the Pies don't always hide their kids away until they are 'ready'. In fact they have had plenty of kids who are brought into the side from their first seasons if they are considered good enough. The difference between them and us though is they already had/have an established bunch of stars that allow their kids to play supporting roles rather than being asked to start.

As I said before we're starting to establish that group of stars that will allow us to ease our kids in to some degree and give them the chance to play those support roles, however that is going to take us at least another 2 years.

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Do you mind posting a link to 'THE COMMENTS ' ? As I have not heard not seen anything from anyone at the club , including Shane Tuck , indicating that his admission from our side last season was a mistake or any indicating similar ?

Do you mind revisiting the start of this thread???

 

[_RT_]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

This was my biggest frustration last season ....obviously... lol.... and I wanted to see Martin and Cotch burts away from packs after being fed from Tucky... and thats what I would have thought would have been best for our development.

This year you will not only see them bursting away from packs after having the ball fed out to them by Tuck Deledio Grigg or Foley, you will also see them winning the clearance themselves and feeding it out to the likes of Deledio Foley Conca Ellis & Nahas and allowing them to burst away from packs.

Its going to be one of the joys of this season.

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Is that so? By my count, Didak B.Johnson Swan Davis Presti & Maxwell were all on the Pies list in 2003. Fraser O'Bree & Lockyer were also on the list as well.

you are getting desperate now..... Which player/s played in both????
that is point FFS???? Did Fraser play 2010??no... did Obree? NO.... did Lockyer??? NO... did Presti play..NO!!!! why are you being stupid?

As for letting kids develop before throwing them in, Beams and Sidebottom were in their second years and playing their 43rd and 36th games in the 2010 GF. While Pendlebury Thomas Shaw and Cloke are others who were also thrown in pretty much from the start of their careers.

AND THEY HAD THOSE YOU MENTIONED ABOVE by their side...FFS are you losing the plot??? We had no one around our yungsters... thats what throwing players to the wolves mean... Playing youngsters when they aren;t ready and with no experienced players around them... serouisly take the glasses off.... or maybe you need them???

I've already admitted that I misread the Tuck situation last year. After talking to a few insiders about what was going on I now understand what they were trying to do.

Really.... and as I explained they made the wrong call... they have admitted it... twice now.

He was among the first to be re-signed though and this was despite many saying that Tuck would be cut because he failed to play enough games to get an automatic renewal.

because the club faced a backlash from supporters and players... Mr Cotchin being one..

As shown above the Pies don't always hide their kids away until they are 'ready'. In fact they have had plenty of kids who are brought into the side from their first seasons if they are considered good enough. The difference between them and us though is they already had/have an established bunch of stars that allow their kids to play supporting roles rather than being asked to start.

Unlike us they know the importance of having big players around them...
they are able to put 1 or 2 youngsters in at a time.

As I said before we're starting to establish that group of stars that will allow us to ease our kids in to some degree and give them the chance to play those support roles, however that is going to take us at least another 2 years.

You can still do it gradually by playing players not in the long term thinking...

Did Hislop deserve to be played ahead of Tuck.... I'd love your explanation on that one!!!!

Let me gues.... "We played Hislop to show the youngsters that they had to take up the slack when players like hislop failed to perform. This was designed to show Martin and Cotchin their responsibilities...".... like I said just a guess.??? was I close?

 

[nut]

As usual, he's been less obtrusive but pretty effective, ranked No.1 across the league for contested possession, those ball magnet qualities a more-than-handy complement to the silk of the younger hands

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/preseason-sixpack-20120316-1vb1o.html#ixzz1pSYCRDIS

You still not convinced.... ???

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

This year you will not only see them bursting away from packs after having the ball fed out to them by Tuck Deledio Grigg or Foley, you will also see them winning the clearance themselves and feeding it out to the likes of Deledio Foley Conca Ellis & Nahas and allowing them to burst away from packs.

Its going to be one of the joys of this season.

Personally I want Martin on the end of it.... not under a pack.

as for Cotchin.... well he is going to be the best extractor the game has seen. I reckon he has surpassed Gary junoir in the ability to get the ball out under extreme pressure. How he can get the ball to his foot so quickly is amazing... he has done stuff I haven't seen before. Thats why I rate cotchin above Martin.

 

[_RT_]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Personally I want Martin on the end of it.... not under a pack.

as for Cotchin.... well he is going to be the best extractor the game has seen. I reckon he has surpassed Gary junoir in the ability to get the ball out under extreme pressure. How he can get the ball to his foot so quickly is amazing... he has done stuff I haven't seen before. Thats why I rate cotchin above Martin.

With Martins brute strength I'm more than happy having him in there either winning it or clearing a path for others to win it.

 

[nut]

Apparently we can fit him now....

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...uter-at-richmond/story-e6frexx0-1226030951246

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Do you mind revisiting the start of this thread???

Not all but do you mind providing some evidence to support your comments,
" The comments from Cotchin last season and now Newman..... I think the club was forced to change their decision. " ?

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

With Martins brute strength I'm more than happy having him in there either winning it or clearing a path for others to win it.

and there is plenty of room in there for him too.... but surely you see Martins best asset. His kicking. Surely it's better than he is closer to the end of the chain then the begining? Would you Martin dishing it out to Jackson or Edwards??? or the other way around?

I'm quite surprised you cant see his true strength.... 60 metre passes... 60 metre goals. Here we are finally blessed with a player that kick through lines and you want him on the bottom of packs??? sure you are just trying to find ridiculous arguments for the sake of it.

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Not all but do you mind providing some evidence to support your comments,
" The comments from Cotchin last season and now Newman..... I think the club was forced to change their decision. " ?

Well half of the answers are at the start of the thread.... you want me to find where Cocthin showed his love for Tuck, by saying ho much he admired tuck "go get ball atitude"... hay I found half you find the other. It's called Google.

 

[nut]

Here's DH blasing our midfielders....

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...uter-at-richmond/story-e6frexx0-1226030951246

then in the other article he says he cant fit our best ball winner in the side??? Personally I think this is what was pissing Cotchin off. Playing guys like Hislop, White, Edwards, etc... ahead of Tucky.
There is a strong case to add to why Scully left Melbourne... and he is now playing with him again.!! work it out.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Well half of the answers are at the start of the thread.... you want me to find where Cocthin showed his love for Tuck, by saying ho much he admired tuck "go get ball atitude"... hay I found half you find the other. It's called Google.

So goggling and finding quotes from the captain and vice captain " showing their love " for one of their own players individual aspect, in your opinion, shows that the club " was forced to change it's decision " . ?

 

[_RT_]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

and there is plenty of room in there for him too.... but surely you see Martins best asset. His kicking. Surely it's better than he is closer to the end of the chain then the begining? Would you Martin dishing it out to Jackson or Edwards??? or the other way around?

I'm quite surprised you cant see his true strength.... 60 metre passes... 60 metre goals. Here we are finally blessed with a player that kick through lines and you want him on the bottom of packs??? sure you are just trying to find ridiculous arguments for the sake of it.

Stop taking everything so literally. With Martin Cotchin Tuck Foley Deledio all capable of winning clearances there are going to be times where there are different players running through there.

Sure Martin has that great kicking ability but having the ability to get in and win clearances and clear a path for others is also something we should also utilise. The kid is a brute and watching him at Geelong last week, where he walked through packs and they couldn't lay and hand on him and then feed the ball out to Cotchin Newman Grigg Houli & Foley was a sight to behold. More often than not it was his work in the pack that would set up a F50 entry.

You see that is what we've been trying to build, a midfield that is hard to match up on. We now have a group of midfielders that can chop and change where they play depending on matchups or form.

Yesterday was a perfect example of that, Martin was a little off on recent performances but it still took a decent player from the opposition to sit on him and keep him out of the play. That allowed Deledio to get off the leash and have a blinder. Cotchin performed well, Foley was decent, Tuck got plenty and Grigg too. These are the sort of benefits we got from last years experimenting with setups, we now know that we can move these guys around to suit needs and we won't lose anything from it.

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

So goggling and finding quotes from the captain and vice captain " showing their love " for one of their own players individual aspect, in your opinion, shows that the club " was forced to change it's decision " . ?

I'd say it was a part of it.... why would you think this was uncommon?? Leadership groups have a say.. it would have added alot of wieght to the arguement of renewing Tucks contract for the second season in a row.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

I'd say it was a part of it.... why would you think this was uncommon?? Leadership groups have a say.. it would have added alot of wieght to the arguement of renewing Tucks contract for the second season in a row.

Yes I'd suspect the leadership groups opinion on players would carry some weight, however there is nothing to suggest that Cotchin nor Newman feel that the club was wrong in not playing Tuck last season nor that his contract should have been renewed.
All I see is quotes , that they admired a certain aspect of his game.
Not dismilar to if they had been quoted as stating they admired Cleave Hughes kicking ability ?

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Yes I'd suspect the leadership groups opinion on players would carry some weight, however there is nothing to suggest that Cotchin nor Newman feel that the club was wrong in not playing Tuck last season nor that his contract should have been renewed.
All I see is quotes , that they admired a certain aspect of his game.
Not dismilar to if they had been quoted as stating they admired Cleave Hughes kicking ability ?

Stop being a twit... It was clear that Cotchin wanted Tuck in the side.... Who ever it was whoi made the decision has been put back in their place. TWICE... once when Tuck put pen to a new contract and again when he starts in the guts round 1.

I commend DH for admitting his stupidity, by allowing his Captain to publicly praise Tucky...

Its a shame we cant pring up the embarrasing posts you and RT put up in the old thread... disgraceful IMO.

 

[Damo80]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Personally DH missed an opurtunity last season turning Tuck into a handball machine. Just tell Tuck to "go get the ball" ... then off load it to Trent or Dustin.... or fluffy Grigg.

This sounds good in theory. Sadly, what sticks in my mind from the NAB campaign is how many times Tuck uses his "elite" ball winning ability to get first use, only to throw it aimlessly onto the boot, and more often than not have it end up in opposition hands.

I still think he has his place in the team, and I think he should've played thru last season, but he still gives the ball up too easily, too often.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Personally I want Martin on the end of it.... not under a pack.

as for Cotchin.... well he is going to be the best extractor the game has seen. I reckon he has surpassed Gary junoir in the ability to get the ball out under extreme pressure. How he can get the ball to his foot so quickly is amazing... he has done stuff I haven't seen before. Thats why I rate cotchin above Martin.

I have to agree as well....Cotch is a smaller more polished version of Tucky...

Dual 'extractors'.......

 

[tigerdan]

Tuck has a got a bit of Wayne Campbell syndrome about him. Not in the style of play, but in their disposal. How many times did we see Cambo do those dinky little high kicks into the forward line where Richo would get clobbered.

Tuck has no trouble winning the contested ball, it's just the tendency to bang it on the boot that gets the team in trouble. The simple solution would be to dish off the handball to someone alongside. I know it could become a bit predictable that way but worth a shot. Actually it's such a simple solution that the must have tried it already.
[EDIT: I see i'm not the only one to suggest this]

I think we can all agree that Tuck should have played more games last year. It was folly to leave him out so long and no coincidence (IMHO) that when he came back in we started winning games. I think Hardwick has admitted as much anyway.