Mini Draft - WCE a strong contender

[Play by Numbers]

It was rumoured that Richmond were interested in Smith - so maybe Smith and first rounder for Conca

I would consider that. Most Richmond fans would probably have a fit if you suggested that to them though.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

We were definitely scraping the barrel in 2006

I am not talking about draft picks with those numbers, I am talking about depth of quality midfielders in the system v depth of quality KPP.

 

[WCE_phil]

Conca is richmonds most talented undeveloped player. Would you trade gaff for a late first rounder and stevens? Of course not.

Conca won't be coming back to wa under a deal like this. Getting conca would at the very least take brown, stevens and our first rounder and even then i think richmond would 99% turn us down. (most likely whilst laughing)

 

[SpaceClef]

I am not talking about draft picks with those numbers, I am talking about depth of quality midfielders in the system v depth of quality KPP.

I wasn't talking about draft picks either, just the generally held assumption that sides with superstar midfields will generally do better than sides with superstar forward lines.

Obviously it depends on the players around them to make it work though.

I think that the #1 mid in the comp will have an impact on the match every week (presuming the #1 mid in the comp is un-taggable), whereas I feel teams with a dominant KPF sometimes become too predictable, the KPF can be negated more easily through third-man-up zoning defenses etc...

If #1 KPF in the comp means a once in a lifetime player like Carey or Franklin, though, then I agree with you.

 

[eagles rule]

wow yes do it would take Hogan too ..

who`s the pick of wafl backs as a filler ? Tom Lee ,Tom Morrow?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

wow yes do it would take Hogan too ..

who`s the pick of wafl backs as a filler ? Tom Lee ,Tom Morrow?

Tom Lee a WAFL back?

 

[Keys]

wow yes do it would take Hogan too ..

who`s the pick of wafl backs as a filler ? Tom Lee ,Tom Morrow?

Too soon. Wouldn't need him til next year

 

[eagles rule]

Tom Lee a WAFL back?

the beauty of Lee is he can play fwd and back ...

 

[eagles rule]

Too soon. Wouldn't need him til next year

LOL his real name is Joe

 

[jaxxon]

Tom Lee a WAFL back?

Started the year in defence.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

so is this another superrrdraft or what?

No. Similar in top end quality to 2009 and the talent after first round lasts a little longer.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Conca is richmonds most talented undeveloped player. Would you trade gaff for a late first rounder and stevens? Of course not.

Conca won't be coming back to wa under a deal like this. Getting conca would at the very least take brown, stevens and our first rounder and even then i think richmond would 99% turn us down. (most likely whilst laughing)

Stevens, Brown and a First round pick. Yeah nah.

 

[Definitely Maybe]

My understanding is Conca is contracted until next year. No chance Richmond trades him.

The mini draft info regarding Mitch Brown is interesting. Just Mitch Brown for a pick in the mini draft seems too good to be true. It would need to be Brown + extras.

 

[WCE_phil]

There is a real problem with trading away brown for a mini draft pick. If it involves our first rounder essentially not only does it cut out a best 22 player of the future and depth cover it puts us 2 years back in reality on development of this years first rounder. By the time whoever we would pick up comes in and makes an impact glass,cox,embley,lynch,kerr are gone or at the very best adequate role players.

Our window is now and i dont want to sacrifice a potential premiership in the next two years for the possibility of one in the future. It's how clubs mire themselves in mediocrity. Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne etc. etc. etc. It's all about the future, what a gun this draft pick is going to be. There are no certainties in draft picks especially in future ones. Looks at juniors. 18 months ago looking at the kids turning 16 i thought chris yarran was as good a talent as o'meara. Skip forward and look at the result. People see a mini draft pick and they see a superstar of the future, an absolute gun. What happens if they only turn out average, we cop 1-2 key position injuries and it costs us in a prelim or a grand final in the next 2 years.

Second pick in the mini draft will likely work out around the 3-6 best player of his draft class before they are drafted. As much as masto has improved and is a good player for us now he's not going to be a superstar. Do people want to see a future with this happening because as i see it, it's a 50/50.

People well say well what if, what if, what if but its exactly that. A mini draft pick is a what if gamble on the future at the expense of the now. Sure if we can do it and get adequate cover this year then it may be worth it but its no guarantee. I watch every game, every week and i'd be more than willing to put money on brown being a much better player atm than a pears, hooker, rivers type.

 

[jdisc]

the beauty of Lee is he can play fwd and back ...

and ruck and does well around the ground.......

he's like naitanui, except........... well, you know..................... doesn't have the dreadlocks

 

[eaglespremiers]

There is a real problem with trading away brown for a mini draft pick. If it involves our first rounder essentially not only does it cut out a best 22 player of the future and depth cover it puts us 2 years back in reality on development of this years first rounder. By the time whoever we would pick up comes in and makes an impact glass,cox,embley,lynch,kerr are gone or at the very best adequate role players.

Our window is now and i dont want to sacrifice a potential premiership in the next two years for the possibility of one in the future. It's how clubs mire themselves in mediocrity. Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne etc. etc. etc. It's all about the future, what a gun this draft pick is going to be. There are no certainties in draft picks especially in future ones. Looks at juniors. 18 months ago looking at the kids turning 16 i thought chris yarran was as good a talent as o'meara. Skip forward and look at the result. People see a mini draft pick and they see a superstar of the future, an absolute gun. What happens if they only turn out average, we cop 1-2 key position injuries and it costs us in a prelim or a grand final in the next 2 years.

Second pick in the mini draft will likely work out around the 3-6 best player of his draft class before they are drafted. As much as masto has improved and is a good player for us now he's not going to be a superstar. Do people want to see a future with this happening because as i see it, it's a 50/50.

People well say well what if, what if, what if but its exactly that. A mini draft pick is a what if gamble on the future at the expense of the now. Sure if we can do it and get adequate cover this year then it may be worth it but its no guarantee. I watch every game, every week and i'd be more than willing to put money on brown being a much better player atm than a pears, hooker, rivers type.

From recollection the mini-draft takes place after trade week.
That being the case we would have procured the services of a Hooker etc... before trading Brown for the mini-draft pick.
I, for one, would be very pleasantly surprised if Brown was ever as good as Hooker has shown glimpses of.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Look we need a KPD, so unless we can sure one up then......

Also Mitch Brown seems to be heading in the right direction, Sheeds would probably want more and in a period that we may be in flag contention you would have to think very carefully about even speaking to Mitch or his management about any hypotheticals.

What if he says no to a move? When his contract expires we then risk losing a valuable structural commodity, for very little.

If the deal is right though and all parties seem happy, then yes, worth a look. Who is to say though that GWS aren't just trying to rustle our jimmies a little. They may be in the ear of a number of clubs, trying to see what deals they can shake loose and how much they can upset the apple cart.

More realistically though, much like the Coniglio to WC thread last year this trade seems highly improbable.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

There is a real problem with trading away brown for a mini draft pick. If it involves our first rounder essentially not only does it cut out a best 22 player of the future and depth cover it puts us 2 years back in reality on development of this years first rounder. By the time whoever we would pick up comes in and makes an impact glass,cox,embley,lynch,kerr are gone or at the very best adequate role players.

Our window is now and i dont want to sacrifice a potential premiership in the next two years for the possibility of one in the future. It's how clubs mire themselves in mediocrity. Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne etc. etc. etc. It's all about the future, what a gun this draft pick is going to be. There are no certainties in draft picks especially in future ones. Looks at juniors. 18 months ago looking at the kids turning 16 i thought chris yarran was as good a talent as o'meara. Skip forward and look at the result. People see a mini draft pick and they see a superstar of the future, an absolute gun. What happens if they only turn out average, we cop 1-2 key position injuries and it costs us in a prelim or a grand final in the next 2 years.

Second pick in the mini draft will likely work out around the 3-6 best player of his draft class before they are drafted. As much as masto has improved and is a good player for us now he's not going to be a superstar. Do people want to see a future with this happening because as i see it, it's a 50/50.

People well say well what if, what if, what if but its exactly that. A mini draft pick is a what if gamble on the future at the expense of the now. Sure if we can do it and get adequate cover this year then it may be worth it but its no guarantee. I watch every game, every week and i'd be more than willing to put money on brown being a much better player atm than a pears, hooker, rivers type.

As far as losing two years development on our "first draft pick" that's wrong, we gain access Hogan then he trains full time with us and plays league for Claremont the entire season. Which is what pick 17-21 from this years draft will probably do for us in 2013. We probably aren't going to find ourselves someone who is capable of playing football in 2013, displacing someone from our best 22-25 players in our squad.


If we picked Hogan then you are drafting someone who is ready to play in 2012, let alone play in 2014 as he's allowed. Given a full year on our list, alongside some quality talls he will be playing 22+ if fit for the 2014 season.


What separates Martin, Hogan and Sheed from Yarran is dominance at U18 level. You don't draft players out of the U16's, you draft them out of the U18 system and Yarran hasn't been able to take his form from U16's and translate that into genuine dominance at Colts level, let alone the national championship.


Melbourne's and Richmond's real issue has been an inability to develop talented AFL footballers for an extended period and suffered the consequences which ahs been inadequate on field leaders. Thus the appearance and clear need to draft as many high quality juniors as possible. Once Trengove, Grimes are mature and developed they might have the leaders required (staff pending) to develop a side capable of going after a flag, because their current list lacks the inherit strength to challenge the best sides in the competition.
We have done the right thing by retaining Brown and if we do retain him we will still have done the right thing, he's capable of playing AFL football and he will be able to step into the side when Glass retires. He's not the only key defender we have developed, others have been clocking up AFL games while he hasn't and that's a good thing. The same applies to any young KPD's we blood in the next two years, they will coming into a far stronger defensive unit than poor Mackenzie, Schofield and Brown came into.


Id suggest that if we are talking about getting Hogan from the mini-draft then we are talking about one year without Brown, because Hogan is more than capable of stepping in as a key defender in 2014 if need be. If Glass does retire at the end of 2013 then we won't be without a capable subsititute. In saying that, it's generally agreed that McInnes has some ability as a defender and could chip in for periods during the H&A season in 2013+.


We also have McGovern on the rookie list who by the end of next year will or will not make his way onto the senior list, i'm inclined to think he will but it's always possible his development could stagnate. This might give us a forward option should we need, it's not bankable but it exists. So if we need to play Hogan in defence because McInnes isn't capable then we can and we have other options for tall forwards if we continue a three pronged attack.


If we had Hogan for the 2014 season and if Glass plays on for 2014 then Hogan could forward alongside Darling and Kennedy. Even if we lose Embley and Lynch in the next year or so then id say we could potentially be a better side for a short period, if we could keep Cox, Kerr and Glass fit for another two season.

If not then we have a stupidly talented array of tall's that will be around for 10 years and it shouldn't take us ten years to find ourself another KPD if we need one (who we should look to draft this year) and some more quality mid-fielders (that come through the system every year).

Hogan and Darling boggles the mind and that's before i think of Kennedy, Naitanui and perhaps Lycett. You would be in my opinion mad to not do it, if we get a second round pick for Stevens we probably won't even with that first round pick, we just have to make them count like any draft.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Just out of curiosity is this the last year of the mini draft? Surely it is right?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Look we need a KPD, so unless we can sure one up then......

Some assumptions are being made on this front. Brown may or may not be required in 2013 in a defensive role, personally i would have loved for Mitch Brown to take Schofields role and play Schofield in another role. One with more freedom.

Also Mitch Brown seems to be heading in the right direction, Sheeds would probably want more and in a period that we may be in flag contention you would have to think very carefully about even speaking to Mitch or his management about any hypotheticals.

If they want another KPD then you probably can't go past Mitch Brown, if we threw a first rounder then that's hard to top. Few other clubs are in a position to give away a KPD (if we are) as well as first round pick. Those above us in the draft will value those top 15 picks quite a bit more than what we value ours.

What if he says no to a move? When his contract expires we then risk losing a valuable structural commodity, for very little.

If the deal is right though and all parties seem happy, then yes, worth a look. Who is to say though that GWS aren't just trying to rustle our jimmies a little. They may be in the ear of a number of clubs, trying to see what deals they can shake loose and how much they can upset the apple cart.

More realistically though, much like the Coniglio to WC thread last year this trade seems highly improbable.

No trade is always the most probable senario. It's also said that Hogan wanted some idea of the clubs he could end up at before he committed to the mini-draft, we top his list.

 

[Talentman]

Some assumptions are being made on this front. Brown may or may not be required in 2013 in a defensive role, personally i would have loved for Mitch Brown to take Schofields role and play Schofield in another role. One with more freedom.



If they want another KPD then you probably can't go past Mitch Brown, if we threw a first rounder then that's hard to top. Few other clubs are in a position to give away a KPD (if we are) as well as first round pick. Those above us in the draft will value those top 15 picks quite a bit more than what we value ours.




No trade is always the most probable senario. It's also said that Hogan wanted some idea of the clubs he could end up at before he committed to the mini-draft, we top his list.

 

[Masto]

GWS probably want Hogan for themselves, which is why they are likely keen to give the 2nd pick to a team who will take someone else.

 

[WCE_phil]

From recollection the mini-draft takes place after trade week.
That being the case we would have procured the services of a Hooker etc... before trading Brown for the mini-draft pick.
I, for one, would be very pleasantly surprised if Brown was ever as good as Hooker has shown glimpses of.

It's a two stage process. You have to trade for the mini draft pick during trade week and then the mini draft happens afterwards.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Doesn't look happy IMO.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Some assumptions are being made on this front. Brown may or may not be required in 2013 in a defensive role, personally i would have loved for Mitch Brown to take Schofields role and play Schofield in another role. One with more freedom.

There are no assumptions being made.

We seriously lack KPD depth. Lose Brown and we are one or two injuries away from being really stretched down back.

Glass may start slowing down and even if he doesn't, is every likelihood to retire soon. Schofield can hold down a key defensive post, but he is more effective as a rebound player.
Mackenzie has played consistently this year, but has had numerous injury issues in the past.

Logic therefore dictates that we would have to be confident that we can secure an AFL ready KPD, if we are to trade Brown for a mini draft pick.

The real issue for me though, is that if we are keen and approach Brown or his management and Brown does not want to move to GWS, we risk losing him when his contract expires and we are at a disadvantage.