Midfield Future

[ghostdog]

This was spurred by Pweter's comment in the Lonergan thread:

"...our midfield is, both now and into the future, is in good shape."

Birthdays this year:
Watson 28
Goddard 28
Stanton 27

We should obviously get a good three to four years out of these guys, but their departures will also be a massive loss. Interested to know where people think the future is for our midfield group. Who becomes our next Watson etc. I can see Heppell (21yo) or Melksham (22yo) taking the running role of Stanton. Myers (24yo) perhaps takes the Watson role.

The future does look bright

 

[daz17]

KAV!

 

[Jade]

Kavanagh, Heppell, Zaharakis, Browne, Melksham, Myers, Howlett.

Yeah not stressing in the slightest.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Really think Browne will make his mark this year. And also win a game.

That probably comes first.

 

[ItchMint5]

I see Zaharakis & Heppell being our two first picks for the midfield long term. Plenty of other guys there too that can develop into the roles that will need replacing though!

 

[Silly Billy]

Our midfield future will struggle if we don't get a Clearence specialist in the next 3years from the national draft IMO

Zaka, Kav, Melksham and Heppell are not inside Midfielders.

Hams can do the job if he can show he is worth his spot and the Rory Sloane comparison and if Kommer is anything like Jordan Lewis with his hard nut approach, we might be in with a chance.

 

[Ambrosia]

Heath Hocking at only 25 is definitely worthy of a mention in this thread. Was in our top 3 most important players in 2011 imo.

 

[emblurr]

Howlett

 

[AlexEss]

Our midfield future will struggle if we don't get a Clearence specialist in the next 3years from the national draft IMO

Zaka, Kav, Melksham and Heppell are not inside Midfielders.

Hams can do the job if he can show he is worth his spot and the Rory Sloane comparison and if Kommer is anything like Jordan Lewis with his hard nut approach, we might be in with a chance.

agreed...caddy would have been good here

 

[Silly Billy]

Yea but the kid put a high price tag on his head.

Not trying to doubt our list, but say we don't make the 8.. We would be stupid not to target a gun Clearence kid in the ND with a top 8 pick since it won't be a compromised draft

 

[Yoda_]

I'm not even worried in the slightest about not having a pure inside clearance specialist.. Jobe is 29 (?), plenty of time to get a pure inside midfielder before Jobe retires.

We do seem to have a few 'run off' clearance options both now and for the future, so not overly worried about that. I am more worried about our outside ball users before the inside options.

 

[VelvetSledge]

I'm not even worried in the slightest about not having a pure inside clearance specialist.. Jobe is 29 (?), plenty of time to get a pure inside midfielder before Jobe retires.

We do seem to have a few 'run off' clearance options both now and for the future, so not overly worried about that. I am more worried about our outside ball users before the inside options.

Almost 28.

 

[fishardansin]

Jobe, Goddard, Stanton, Hocking, Zaka, Heppell, Myers and Howlett, with Ryder and TBell in the ruck, Fletcher, Pears, Dempsey and Hibberd distributing the ball out of the back half and Crameri, Jetta, Hurley, Winderlich and Gumby pushing up high from the forward line.

Midfield is not our concern for a few years yet.

I know I'm a biased overly optimistic chap at times but seriously I think we're just a few players short of having the list I want. A dynamo forward pocket and a Shuey type midfielder is all wer're short of to potentially be a challenger. Hopefully the coaches can work around that and perhaps Kommer is a poor man's version of the hard nut mid with break away pace. With the class we have at winning the ball with Jobe then perhaps that is enough. Regards the forward pocket last year Davey and Jetta were doing a good job together when the team was healthy and in form, so perhaps they can again this year. I'd be happier with that if Winderlich gets the deeper role and Jetta pushes up to play as an extra mid off half forward though.

The other weakness we have is tagging. Hocking is just not much chop at it. He was terrible as a back pocket and similarly struggles tagging. I'm guessing they were hoping that he had similar attributes to Ling. Perhaps he can continue to tag a clearance style player, well stand him at the stoppages, and Winderlich or Kommer can take the outside running mid that needs to be tagged.

 

[Yoda_]

I know I'm a biased overly optimistic chap at times but seriously I think we're just a few players short of having the list I want. A dynamo forward pocket and a Shuey type midfielder is all wer're short of to potentially be a challenger. Hopefully the coaches can work around that and perhaps Kommer is a poor man's version of the hard nut mid with break away pace. With the class we have at winning the ball with Jobe then perhaps that is enough. Regards the forward pocket last year Davey and Jetta were doing a good job together when the team was healthy and in form, so perhaps they can again this year. I'd be happier with that if Winderlich gets the deeper role and Jetta pushes up to play as an extra mid off half forward though.

In regards to that Shuey type (assuming it is an inside out goalkicking midfielder you are talking about?) that is probably our strong point. We have Zaka, Howlett and (potentially) Myers in the team now whilst Kav, Browne and even the new Kid Hams sounds like it as well, so the future bodes well there.

I think we would have taken a forward pocket type this year hd Davey not had a stellar start to the year. What did he finish with for the year, 20+ goals? With him and Jetta complimenting each other worked well early in the year when workmates were up and the team was up and about.

The inside midfielder we could use we can pick up whenever and they can have a (relatively) early impact in there careers, so perhaps the 2013 is where this and the ruckmen is selected for the future.

The other weakness we have is tagging. Hocking is just not much chop at it. He was terrible as a back pocket and similarly struggles tagging. I'm guessing they were hoping that he had similar attributes to Ling. Perhaps he can continue to tag a clearance style player, well stand him at the stoppages, and Winderlich or Kommer can take the outside running mid that needs to be tagged.

I think Hocking did a good job in 2011 but seemed to get confused with his role in '12 having played a bit more offensively. With Kommer added and the flying Dutchmen's ability to go through the midfield, pressure for that tagging role is on.

 

[DaSawx]

What's the worry?

Watson could have 5-6 years left.

Howlett....

Myers a big possibilty.

Who says Heppell can't be, people were saying Pendles wasn't going to be strong enough ect ect

There's things called drafting and recruiting also, inside mids.......no worries.

 

[fishardansin]

In regards to that Shuey type (assuming it is an inside out goalkicking midfielder you are talking about?) that is probably our strong point. We have Zaka, Howlett and (potentially) Myers in the team now whilst Kav, Browne and even the new Kid Hams sounds like it as well, so the future bodes well there.

That is exactly the player I'm talking about. Dangerfield is the best young version around, Judd (pre devastating groin problems) was one of the best ever at it and lets dream about Ablett!!

Zaka has the break away speed and can use it well, even kicking goals. He's not quite tough on the inside though to really be a chop out for the specialists though. Howlet is fanatical around the ball with Lonergan being the only comparable player around the packs at Essendon in recent times. Howlett does not have the break away speed though and while he can accumulate some possessions around the ground isn't going to burst away from a stoppage. Browne looks like a tough as nails half back/mid, but I don't see him being super damaging with ball in hand, and once again doesn't have the break away speed. Myers has that wonderful left boot and I really think will be a star midfielder in the mould of Kennedy, Watson and Thompson, 190cm+ and standing up in tackles to distribute the ball. He doesn't have that break away speed either, yes he was quick as a youngster but he's put on too much muscle for that now.

No comment on Hams and Kav, as I'd be mostly talking out my backside, however, I have read that Hams aint too quick but I did read that Kav was an inside/out mid with explosive pace as a junior. This might have been prior to hamstrings in final junior year though. So While I don't see any of those other players filling a role like that from what I've read Kav may be that guy. Though I've also read a few people say he's an outside midfielder.

The player I'm thinking of would be a combination of the best attributes of Howlett and Zaka!!!

That said I wonder if the Hird/Thompson vision is three very big bodies at the feet of the ruckmen and line breakers circling them on the flanks and wings.

I think we would have taken a forward pocket type this year hd Davey not had a stellar start to the year. What did he finish with for the year, 20+ goals? With him and Jetta complimenting each other worked well early in the year when workmates were up and the team was up and about.

The inside midfielder we could use we can pick up whenever and they can have a (relatively) early impact in there careers, so perhaps the 2013 is where this and the ruckmen is selected for the future.

I think Hocking did a good job in 2011 but seemed to get confused with his role in '12 having played a bit more offensively. With Kommer added and the flying Dutchmen's ability to go through the midfield, pressure for that tagging role is on.

I actually think Hocking did a better job when he had some purely offensive games in the midfield, he'll never be able to go with a Marc Murphy or Ablett either.

I think Carlton will be our major rival next year and personally I'd love to see Hocking go to Judd, Howlett to Murphy, Winderlich to Yarran and Heppell to Simpson. I know that might sound a bit defensive for some but I honestly believe that will leave only Scotland as an offensive weapon and we could try to play through his man, probably Jetta. They would be totally closed down, and we'd still have Watson, Goddard, Stanton et al!!!

 

[Pweter]

I'll start by saying the intent of my comment that this thread was derived from was that getting rid of a player like Lonergan means our midfield is developing to the point where we can afford to offload a good honest trier and have a better midfield, including midfield depth. Prior to this season and our associated offseason coup I was not convinced we were in a position to do this.

Right now we have a very good midfield core and some great talent that can rotate through. There is also the kids that will be or should be pressuring for places in, predominately, Browne and Kav.

Hocking is a forgotten man that if freed up from his tagging duties could add some serious muscle and aggression to the midfield also. Which brings me to my next point.....

Who tags?

Last season it looked like Davis was being groomed for this. Does anyone have the inside word into firstly his fitness and whether he is still being looked at for such a role?

Something about me wants to see Moose as a tagger. Big unit, big tank, smart footballer, seems disciplined and to have his head screwed on right. I can see him becoming a very effective tagger in the mould of Ling. Or am I just being a flog for thinking like that?

Bottom line though is that rarely do you have the perfect midfield. What I am seeing though is our midfield having a great blend of youth and experience with inside and outside presence across the age brackets. The fact our midfield elder statesmen are ~28 years old is more than handy to. It's a good situation to be in.

 

[Eleven 38]

we did get Goddard as a Free Agent at 28, we no longer have to be disadvantaged because we havent tanked or finished bottom for 2years straight to get A grade mids. So if in 4 years time if we need to go grab an A grade inside mid go bloody get one, if we cant get a free agent, i'm sure we will have some currency at the trade table with quality players who want to move because they can get more opportunity elsewhere.

 

[Yoda_]

What's the worry?

Watson could have 5-6 years left.

Howlett....

Myers a big possibilty.

Who says Heppell can't be, people were saying Pendles wasn't going to be strong enough ect ect

There's things called drafting and recruiting also, inside mids.......no worries.

My thoughts exactly DaSawx

That is why my comments (re: outside mids) is probably more on the money.

Outside mids is where we need improvement. Guys like Colyer & Jetta, the return of Zaka, the natural development of our youngsters (Dalgleish, Merret, Kav even) is what is going to see us go from a mid table side to pushing the top 4 sides.

That is exactly the player I'm talking about. Dangerfield is the best young version around, Judd (pre devastating groin problems) was one of the best ever at it and lets dream about Ablett!!

There isnt many 'complete' players in the comp. Even the very best have flaws.

Zaka has the break away speed and can use it well, even kicking goals. He's not quite tough on the inside though to really be a chop out for the specialists though. Howlet is fanatical around the ball with Lonergan being the only comparable player around the packs at Essendon in recent times. Howlett does not have the break away speed though and while he can accumulate some possessions around the ground isn't going to burst away from a stoppage. Browne looks like a tough as nails half back/mid, but I don't see him being super damaging with ball in hand, and once again doesn't have the break away speed. Myers has that wonderful left boot and I really think will be a star midfielder in the mould of Kennedy, Watson and Thompson, 190cm+ and standing up in tackles to distribute the ball. He doesn't have that break away speed either, yes he was quick as a youngster but he's put on too much muscle for that now.

Apart from the outside midfield group, I am fairly happy with where the list is at. Obviously a ruckmen is needed in 2014 onwards, and possibly a small forward to develop (Dell just aint up to it in my eyes), I am fairly happy. We showed in the first dozen weeks what we could do. We just need a bit of luck with the footy gods and a sweet injury run to really stamp ourselves on the comp.

 

[fishardansin]

Outside mids is where we need improvement. Guys like Colyer & Jetta, the return of Zaka, the natural development of our youngsters (Dalgleish, Merret, Kav even) is what is going to see us go from a mid table side to pushing the top 4 sides.

There isnt many 'complete' players in the comp. Even the very best have flaws.

Apart from the outside midfield group, I am fairly happy with where the list is at. Obviously a ruckmen is needed in 2014 onwards, and possibly a small forward to develop (Dell just aint up to it in my eyes), I am fairly happy. We showed in the first dozen weeks what we could do. We just need a bit of luck with the footy gods and a sweet injury run to really stamp ourselves on the comp.

Of course they are not complete. I'm just saying we need two particular traits in the one player that we really don't have. Like you say about players is also transferable to lists as a whole too. No club has a "perfect" list and it is the job of a list manager to make sure all the essentials are covered so that a coach can build a game plan around maximising the strengths and minimising the weaknesses.

I think that Essendon can build a winning game style that will cover our weaknesses. The closest Sydney has to the mid I'm dreaming of is Jack, maybe even McGlin. They can make do. Geelong post Ablett didn't have one either and they bagged a flag.

I spose I'm being selfish in that I want my team to entertain me!! As embarrassing as the Knights era was at times it was magnificent to watch on the odd occassion when the team clicked. Exciting footy!

Essendon has this reputation for flair and pace, but I think it's unwarranted under the current regime. Yes Hird could do the amazing when he played and he paid little attention to the defensive side of the game but his personality means he demands other things as a coach. Clearly he's a bit of a control freak! Which is born out of his fair self assessment that he possesses great leadership qualities. He wants a game plan based around players who are strong and get their hands on the ball in a contest. He wants to clog the middle of the ground to stop opposition waltzing through there and rely on the strong bodied mids to get the ball going our way, even if that is a little slow and lacking of flair!

This year though, when things were going well, the team was moving the ball very well and this surely was brought about by Demspey and Stanton's rich vein of form and Watson dominating the stoppage. If anything I think Hird sees that flair as a bonus and will stifle it if he thinks that it'll get in the way of him controlling the opposition. It was clear to me that St Kilda and Sydney were the two teams he admired most while he commentated, apart from the brilliance of Geelong. All over the ground defense is his number one priority.

 

[eth-dog]

Our midfield shape is pretty good IMO. We have oodles of talent on the outside- Zaharakis, Heppell, Kavanagh, Stanton, Melksham, Browne, Merrett and Colyer will all probably play for another 5 years at least. The inside is fine too- Myers, Howlett, Hocking and Van Unen all look inside players for a few years at least

 

[Mercurial89]

Apologies if this is naive but dont we already have the break away from packs mid we need in howlett? I mean he isn't danger field or Murphy but howlett provides that for us in a reduced capacity. Those guys are guns but howlett can do that and does and he has the defensive efforts to back it up. We don't need a superstar in every role. I'd say we need a better forward pocket before we need another midfielder.

 

[The Bomb]

Apologies if this is naive but dont we already have the break away from packs mid we need in howlett? I mean he isn't danger field or Murphy but howlett provides that for us in a reduced capacity. Those guys are guns but howlett can do that and does and he has the defensive efforts to back it up. We don't need a superstar in every role. I'd say we need a better forward pocket before we need another midfielder.

I agree, Davey and Jetta give me the shits.

 

[Mercurial89]

I agree, Davey and Jetta give me the shits.

It's not that they give me the shits it's that davey is a good small forward but doesn't have too long left. Jetta I don't believe is reaching his full potential as a small forward and I don't really see anything much coming through after davey.

I actually quite like our midfield and think it has what it takes. Plenty of room for development aswell no way have they peaked.

 

[ghostdog]

It's not that they give me the shits it's that davey is a good small forward but doesn't have too long left. Jetta I don't believe is reaching his full potential as a small forward and I don't really see anything much coming through after davey.

I actually quite like our midfield and think it has what it takes. Plenty of room for development aswell no way have they peaked.

Jetta's run and positioning improved through 2010 and 2011 but he again seems to have stagnated. I think many expected last year to be his break-out year, but when you've been around for 5(?) seasons as a small forward at the top level and aren't doing freakish things around goal or up the ground, fans get frustrated.

Sometimes I wonder if Jetta being Aboriginal adds to that - we seem to expect that because an Aboriginal player is playing a forward role that they'll play like Cyril or Eddie or Garlett or Lewis Jetta, and when they don't... maybe maybe not. Regardless, I think that's part of the reason why we all got itchy when we started talking about Dayle Garlett.