Review What We Learnt: Round 7 Edition

[Tongue In Cheek]

6 positives:

* Riewoldt - superstar
* Steven - brilliant
* Dal - at last. Where have you been mate?
* McEvoy - rock of Gibraltar
* Ross - 21 disposals 6 tackles if you don't mind
* Geary on Murphy - played a vital role

6 concerns:

* With this many kids in the team we are going to be burnt by late game fades
* Wright - dammit! Not ideal
* Milne - shocker. The gap between how good he is and how good he thinks he is has widened and it's costing us goals
* Disposal accuracy is killing us. So many overcooked or fumbled handballs
* Siposs - reports say he hurt his ankle. Any word?
* Umpiring. A push in the back on a Saint is not a free. A push in the back against the other side is. Etc. etc.

 

[Tongue In Cheek]

Hated Milne's game. There's taking the game on and there's lairising. Looked like an old bloke piss fartin about in the EJ Whitten Cup at times.

Had to single this bit out. Describes it perfectly!

 

[Allsainters66]

Didn't really noticed Gilbert was gone with the likes of Wright and Dempster running the ball through the backline. Great Win!

 

[Strahany]

Does Riewoldt even have to be mentioned?

Likewise for Roberton, albeit for different reasons.

Ross' composure was great. He didn't appear to ever be phased. The same goes for Newnes.

Wright is proving to be a great, and important contributor to this side. Very, very impressive.

I said, after the Gold Coast game, that Hickey needs to learn how to become a decent forward, or Watters needs to devise a way to play one in the ruck, whilst the other is floating around all over the ground, and not sacrifice much of the team's mobility and pace. Unfortunately, Hickey was pretty unimpressive in the forward 50, but it would appear that Watters has met the latter of my preferences; McEvoy and Hickey were a great combo.

Our backline from last night needs to be locked in for the rest of the year. Look at it on paper:

Dempster Stanley Wright/Geary
Roberton Fisher Gwilt

I'm not sure how obvious it is to anyone else just by looking at that, but every single one of those players are capable of playing a shut down role, but also rebound. With all of these players being capable rebounders, there's obviously less of a chance of a turnover coming from a kick into the midfield, and we no longer have to risk coughing it up in order to get it to a player with a good kick. I feel that this is intentional, and it's a great move.


Edit, forgot to add:



Without Kosi and, as much as I hate to say it, Lenny, we were a much faster side and look a lot better as a result. We beat Carlton at their own game for a majority of that match.

Can't go without mentioning Steven's game. Swan-esque.

Geary's ability to run with, shut down, and outplay Murphy was vital to our win. Jarryn has a reasonably deep bag of tricks.

 

[Tongue In Cheek]

Didn't really noticed Gilbert was gone with the likes of Wright and Dempster running the ball through the backline. Great Win!

No Lenny, no Beau. Agreed - great win! Until the late fadeout we looked far better than we had any right to. Exciting stuff!

 

[sammm]

If the Saints are hungry enough, they can win every game from here on in.

a little realism here please. however i do like your enthusiam.

we still probably won't make the 8. but if we see improvements all year, i will be happy.

 

[Squizz]

Jeepers. I noticed Gilbert wasn't there when Henderson started chopping our defence up. His pace/fitness and ability to get to contests third man up seem underrated. There were too many times where Saints players elected to stay down and watch a Carlton player mark one-out.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Rhys Stanley as a key back makes me shudder more than Zac Dawson did. Any chance someone can tell him that he needs to watch the ball in the air instead of whether his direct opponent shaved before the game? Not a defenders arse-hole, trade bait.

 

[Kildonan]

Key backmen take time - he's had less than 6 months to develop what most never master - you are way out of line on this

 

[Strahany]

Rhys Stanley as a key back makes me shudder more than Zac Dawson did. Any chance someone can tell him that he needs to watch the ball in the air instead of whether his direct opponent shaved before the game? Not a defenders arse-hole, trade bait.

A bit harsh, I would have thought. He just needs a bit more time.

And irrespective of that, what we'd get for Stanley in a trade would be worth much less to us than what he is right now.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I pretty much agree with everything people have said about our players. I thought there was a lot to like from so many of them. My lessons from this match are less about players, and more about structure.

But before I get to structure, let me quickly say, there are not enough facepalms for suggestions that Stanley is a bad backman. He's fine. He's essentially a debutant this year, played 7ish games in the role, and has had one game where his opponent got away from him. Give him 30 games in the role, he'll probably be AA.

Structurally, we needed another tall and another senior inside mid - or hell, ANY inside mid. FACT: we lost the clearances 33 to 44, and that's despite Carlton's rotations being ruined by injuries in the first quarter. One of the main reasons Carlton came back in that last quarter was because they started demolishing us in the guts, clearance after clearance. If Hayes, Jones or even Ledger or Curren had played, the ball wouldn't have been going into Carlton's forward 50 every two seconds in that last quarter. It may well have been going into ours. THEN the game is much safer for us.

Add to that, we essentially had four big talls out there, spread between three positions, when we needed five: Roo, Hickey, Macca and Stanley. We started with one in the back (Stanley), one in the ruck (Macca), two in the forward line (Hickey, Roo). What that meant was, when things got too stretched down back, we switched to two in the back (Stanley, Macca), one in the ruck (Hickey), ONE in the forward line (Roo). Unsurprisingly, we found it hard to score in our forward line, even when we DID get it down there, because structurally we were way off. A BETTER solution is one less small, replaced by Beau when he gets back. THEN we'll have a completely different situation.

THEN, we'll have a one back, one ruck, THREE forward, to stretch defences. But if things go bad in the backline, we can have two backs (Macca floating back), one ruck (Hickey from the forward line), and still have TWO talls in the forward line. That will still make things tough for the opposition.

 

[Allsainters66]

The good thing about the game was when Carlton came back in the last quarter to get it back to 4 points we slowed the game down and got a goal to win the game. Good to see we finally win a close game!

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Key backmen take time - he's had less than 6 months to develop what most never master - you are way out of line on this

Not sure Im way out of line great man. Please let me know of one good game he has played in 4 years and I will retract my statement.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Ah, so now Stanley is suffering from the plague of all good backmen: "Max Hudghton syndrome". It's a tragic ailment, where whenever a good forward has a good game, it's the backman's fault, but whenever the backman has a good game, it's because the forward had a bad day.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Lets forget his games as a backman, because they are very forgettable, how about any other games he has played? This is just debate by the way, nothing more, playing the devils advocate on what we need going forward.
The facts are this, he is 6 ft 7 and averages 4 marks per game and 9.9 possessions. He is almost 23 years old. Is he a keeper or someone we can ship off to GWS for a special on baller and a moderate on baller?

 

[mysainters]

Not sure Im way out of line great man. Please let me know of one good game he has played in 4 years and I will retract my statement.

Never thought he looked good as a forward, but reckon he is developing nicely as a backmen.

Had a good view of two quarters and he is becoming very good at his off the ball work, he'd bd up there with 1% this year I reckon?

 

[joop]

If mcevoy showed us anything last night, it's that we should be be patient with hickey. Mcevoy was drafted much the same reason as why we got hickey, nothing spectacular in the ruck but can take a mark. Hes had his doubters but was sensational last night and that's what we can look forward to from hickey hopefully. I'm happy and pretty confident that in 3 or so years we will have one of the best ruck combos in the league

 

[Persevering Saint]

Look, trying to judge Stanley on his performances before this year are virtually pointless. He was continually plagued by injury, and so every game he played was usually his first or second game back from injury, hence lacked the polish of long established play in position. It is also no coincidence that he kept on getting injured, because - as we now know - he was being played out of position. He is not creative enough to be a forward - he's not smart enough to create leads, etc. But he's very good REactively - he can see what a forward is going to do, and chase them. Because he has speed, he can catch up to them, and because he has height and reach, he can get a fist in and spoil without infringing. He did that repeatedly last night. He is not yet as good in wrestling contests, but give him a full season in the role without injury to build his strength and skill, there is no reason to think he won't improve in that regard.

As for being 23, he's a 23 year old TALL - talls always take ages longer to fill out, etc. Most don't really excel until they're about 24-25yo. Calling for his head NOW, of all times, is like mixing a cake, baking it, and JUST before you take it out of the oven, saying "Hmm, it doesn't have icing on it - we should throw it away...".

don't make no sense, is all.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Never thought he looked good as a forward, but reckon he is developing nicely as a backmen.

Had a good view of two quarters and he is becoming very good at his off the ball work, he'd bd up there with 1% this year I reckon?

i'd rather Stanley down back, freeing up Fish, Roberton and the like.

 

[The Enemy Within]

Rhys Stanley as a key back makes me shudder more than Zac Dawson did. Any chance someone can tell him that he needs to watch the ball in the air instead of whether his direct opponent shaved before the game? Not a defenders arse-hole, trade bait.

Don't really want to have an argument over this but seriously BS you need to get over your mate Goddard being released from the club and start supporting the coaching staff in what their trying to achieve, you seem to be carrying a grudge with the coach or recruiting manager,it is old hat and Stanley helps fill a void down back.

 

[thomas_m18]

I love Stanley as a back and I think he’ll be great there but I just feel that it’s not ideal having him being thrown to the wolves every week without a guy who can really help him out if he’s getting towelled up. He will develop but it would be tough having such responsibility being so inexperienced as a defender. Although I guess Zac Dawson got thrown to the wolves and towelled up as a kid and became what some would call an irreplaceable part of our backline, a player whose loss some will say still affects us to this day.

 

[stkildathunda]

Rhys Stanley as a key back makes me shudder more than Zac Dawson did. Any chance someone can tell him that he needs to watch the ball in the air instead of whether his direct opponent shaved before the game? Not a defenders arse-hole, trade bait.

+1 ain't a forward either.

 

[TassieSaint]

adding another Bad:
-Brian Taylor banging on about the Jimmy Webster in the back call. Does he have a personal vendetta against StKilda?
Seems to always barrack against the Saints.

I just couldn't believe we actually got a decision in our favour for once. I reckon it was the perfect interpretation of the in the back rule, Jimmy didn't push him, he did everything he could to avoid landing on him and mostly managed to land to the side. If you're going to pay that then defenders may as well not contest the ball in those situations.

I don't mind Stanley at FB all season.

Scarlett, Glass, Grundy, Richards used to get towelled up week after week.

Off topic, but I can't remember Glass and especially not Scarlett ever getting towelled up 'week after week'. Even when their respective sides were crap. Grundy is still not much chop and Richards took 10 years to reach AA level. All of them are natural backmen. Not a good comparison for Stanley.

 

[mysainters]

+1 ain't a forward either.

Could we have some stats perhaps before throwing him on the trade table?

How many goals has he conceded compared to others in a similar role this year?

Who would you compare him to in the league, like for like?

Do we take in mind the injuries that have hit the backline this year, Gwilt just back, Gilbert now gone, Fisher came in underdone, Wright now injured? Not the stablest of environments to learn your craft.

 

[TassieSaint]

What we learnt:

Positives

• Can't say we learnt anything about Riewoldt we didn't already know
• McEvoy and Steven have taken the next step. 39 touches in a tight game, that is genuine A grade midfielder stuff.
• McEvoy clearly benefited from having Hickey in the side imo. Hickey was okay, room for improvement though.
• Can we now finally put to be the 'Kosi is important to structure as he draws a key defender' argument?
• Ross and Wright were both great
• Jimmy Webster was very good in the last quarter. Definition of thrown in the deep end. Incidentally I haven't seen him play since his Glenorchy days, almost didn't recognise him! Got the AFL body now.

Negatives

• Whilst the McEvoy and Hickey combo was overall a success, we got smashed in the hitouts especially in the last quarter. It's the one weakness in McEvoy's game and hopefully Hickey can pick up some slack, otherwise we'll be in trouble every time we face a hitout specialist like Warnock.
• The above wouldn't have mattered, but we also got smashed in the clearances AGAIN 33 to 44. Obviously we miss Lenny in this respect, but someone has to pick up the slack. Steven killed it with 9 but Armo, Montagna, Ray, Newnes, Geary... pretty much everyone else in the midfield rotation was sub par in this area.
• Our lack of a decent KPD almost cost us the game AGAIN. Lachie Henderson is decent tall timber but he should not be a match winner. Okay so Stanley is learning, but whilst he is learning we are losing to every side with gun key forward and most of them without. Not that it isn't already, but this is absolute priority come trade time. In the mean time, I think the only thing we can do is more help defence. Watters needs to come up with a defensive strategy to cover this. Dawson might have been better than Stanley, but he was no gun and was saved numerous times by Fisher, Gilbert and our defensive structure in general. This is what Stanley needs.