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Multiplat The Last of Us

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Finally finito. Strong spoilers...


It picked up big time from around winter onward, and became a really fantastic game from there. Until then I'd found it a little repetitive and predictable, in that you'd have a quiet cut scene where Joel and Ellie would discuss how important it is to survive or how they don't trust each other yet or reveal a little bit of their past, and then they'd hear a noise, yell "shit, they're coming again!" and then you'd have to battle through a whole heap of infected or guards or whatever. I wasn't quite getting the hype for the first 60% or though.

But then winter came, and the whole mood of the game changed. Everything seemed more urgent, and for the period of controlling Ellie you started to understand her a little more. I found the scene of her just mangling David to bits as emotionally significant as Sarah dying. From that point on I really, really wanted a happy ending, although I didn't really expect one.

As it got to the end, I initially disagreed with Joel's decision to sacrifice the world for his and Ellie's benefit, but I eventually understood it. Every single group of people we encountered during the game were solely focused on their own individual survival. There are no heroes in that world, and Joel certainly isn't one either. In the end his own mental frailty led him to deciding that Ellie was the closest thing in the world to a hero, but she was his hero only. Selfish yes, but wouldn't you be in that situation? In the end, Ellie realised too that she was more important to him than he was to her. She knew Joel was lying, but in chose to honour his devotion to her with complete devotion to him. I wanted a happy ending, and I suppose I kinda got it. But it wasn't a fairytale ending, more a "we will make do" kind of ending, which was perfect for the game.

Enough of that though, the game itself handled pretty well. It certainly nailed the feeling of desperation, in particular as I was fighting through the hospital at the end. I could not afford to waste one single bullet, and I actually impressed myself with my cleverness in the end. It was a really, really hard game I thought!

Only gripes are the pace and predictability of the first half or so, and the fact that Joel seems to be a complete spac when it comes to dealing with ladders. It takes him half an hour to pick it up, half an hour to move with it, and even longer to get it in the right spot. Every time I had a ladder and had to place it on a wall, I would have plonked it straight on the ground at least twice before getting it in the right spot.

Brilliant game, a fantastic achievement by Naughty Dog to sign off on what has been a near perfect generation for them.

But...

BioShock Infinite >> The Last of Us. Just.
 
MP tips: Revives, crafting and executions are great ways to boost parts. Don't worry about KDR too much - just get as many kills and executions as you can. Do everything Elixuh said. Also get in the habit of buying body armour quickly. I like to use a loadout with the Collector bonus so that I get more parts... But it means you have to forgoe something else.

Here's my loadout:

image.jpg
 

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Mumbo Jumbo said:
MP tips: Revives, crafting and executions are great ways to boost parts. Don't worry about KDR too much - just get as many kills and executions as you can. Do everything Elixuh said. Also get in the habit of buying body armour quickly. I like to use a loadout with the Collector bonus so that I get more parts... But it means you have to forgoe something else.

Here's my loadout:

View attachment 22199
Click to expand...

Don't forget marking enemies as well. The amount of times I've wanted to upgrade something, only to have just too few parts, marking has become a must for me. Whenever I see someone now, I try and mark them straight away.
 
Still thinking about the ending and things relating to that...
Perhaps Joel came to the conclusion that the infected aren't what is wrong with the world, but rather that the living human society itself was far worse. I mean think about it, David was probably the most flawed character I can remember seeing in a video game, and to be completely honest Joel himself wasn't far behind. Ellie was perhaps the only character in that game (except for Joel's female mate early on, can't remember her name...) that was prepared to sacrifice herself for the greater good. Everybody else put their own personal survival ahead of everything. Here's a great post I found on a neogaf spoilers thread...

I don't think you understand what the game was doing, you have it the other way around. The Fireflies were no different than any of the other survivors or the government they supposedly loath. They preach about wanting to make humanity better and allow freedom and all that good stuff, but they are stone cold killers and have no problem with sacrificing innocents, even a little girl, for the supposed greater good. Joel allowing them to cut up Ellie to maybe find a cure puts him on the same level as the soldier who killed his daughter. That soldier too was trying to do what was best for the greater good, sacrificing innocents in order to possibly stop the spread of the infection.

Joel through his interactions with Ellie learns to gain his humanity again and begins to understand there is more to the world than just surviving, that there are some things you shouldn't sacrifice just to keep on living, mainly your humanity. I've said it before and I'll say it again the game reinforces the notion that if you have to lose your humanity to save it then its not worth it. The humans in the game are the real monsters, even if they found a cure they would still be monsters in their hearts. Humanity has to earn its survival and it's places like Tommy's camp that is the real future of society.

The rebuilding of family structures and trust is the "cure" humanity needs, not the fascism of the Fireflies.
Click to expand...

Joel had seen every other inherently good person killed, and most of the time he allowed it. His friend at the start (name still escapes me...), Sam and Henry (whose family values mirrored his, and those present at Tommy's), and to a certain but more tenuous extent even Marlene. He refused to let it happen again to Ellie, no matter the cost.

I dunno, I'm just thinking. Perhaps this game is deeper than I initially had thought.

Also, how did everyone play the operating room? That was one of the best bits of a game I've ever seen, because you walk in there and are forced to completely use your instincts. I didn't even realise I didn't have to kill all, or indeed any of the surgeons until I read up on it later. In fact, I shot all three in the face and then went back to the guy with the knife and shot him in the head again. I guess the mental anguish of fighting through the bastards in the hospital took over, and that my desperation became real.
 
In regard to the surgeons, I killed them all. But I used my fists. By chance, I killed the two guys first, then I felt bad with this woman crouching on the ground crying. But then I booted her in the face, and she died. I didn't realise you could leave them either until my brother told me the other day. Killer instinct kicked in.
 
Toshowyouwhy, my thoughts on your views of the ending and game themes, etc.

Toshowyouwhy said:
Still thinking about the ending and things relating to that...

Perhaps Joel came to the conclusion that the infected aren't what is wrong with the world, but rather that the living human society itself was far worse. I mean think about it, David was probably the most flawed character I can remember seeing in a video game, and to be completely honest Joel himself wasn't far behind. Ellie was perhaps the only character in that game (except for Joel's female mate early on, can't remember her name...) that was prepared to sacrifice herself for the greater good. Everybody else put their own personal survival ahead of everything. Here's a great post I found on a neogaf spoilers thread...
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand what the game was doing, you have it the other way around. The Fireflies were no different than any of the other survivors or the government they supposedly loath. They preach about wanting to make humanity better and allow freedom and all that good stuff, but they are stone cold killers and have no problem with sacrificing innocents, even a little girl, for the supposed greater good. Joel allowing them to cut up Ellie to maybe find a cure puts him on the same level as the soldier who killed his daughter. That soldier too was trying to do what was best for the greater good, sacrificing innocents in order to possibly stop the spread of the infection.

Joel through his interactions with Ellie learns to gain his humanity again and begins to understand there is more to the world than just surviving, that there are some things you shouldn't sacrifice just to keep on living, mainly your humanity. I've said it before and I'll say it again the game reinforces the notion that if you have to lose your humanity to save it then its not worth it. The humans in the game are the real monsters, even if they found a cure they would still be monsters in their hearts. Humanity has to earn its survival and it's places like Tommy's camp that is the real future of society.

The rebuilding of family structures and trust is the "cure" humanity needs, not the fascism of the Fireflies.
Click to expand...

I don't think Joel cared enough to come to a view about society to be honest, and I didn't see anything tangible to suggest that he formed a view like this. From my perspective, he was a very insular, self-centred character. I don't say this in an overly critical way; it certainly helped him survive the real world and suppress his inner demons, but he was a guy who didn't care about much but surviving and protecting those really close to him.

Agree about the fireflies, but I think this poster is reading way too much into it. Joel did not "regain his humanity". There was no indication that he had changed his values or behaviours at all, outside of letting Ellie into his life out of necessity and then doing whatever he could to protect her. He only let go of Tess because he knew she was already gone due to her infection. Ellie was not in the same, doomed situation when he had the chance to save her.

If you think about when Joel revealed his motivations at the end of the game, he said "you find something to keep fighting/surviving for" or words to that effect. All this really told us is it explained what had been one of his survival tools all along. Remember, this was 20 years after the apocalyptic plague. He had been surviving for that long and his purpose within the city in the beginning was to act as a kind of smuggler alongside his friendship with Tess; it was his purpose, and it's why he decided to take Ellie to the Fireflies when he realised that Tess was gone and he wouldn't be able to get back into the city. Ellie asked him, as they left the subway, why he didn't go back, and he told her exactly this. Because of his need to have a purpose, he took on the ownership of delivering her. What was his alternative at that point in time? He could've hung out with Billl or his brother, but it wouldn't have given him purpose.

Just back on his "humanity", I reject this notion and point to the murder of Marlene. His last words as she begged for her life were "You'll just come after her anyway". What does this mean? In my interpretation, it was an excuse so that he could refuse to show mercy or forgiveness. Think about it... he had effectively killed off the Fireflies so the chances of Marlene coming after Ellie and posing any kind of threat were minimal. Simply put, it was a vengeful act, and it's why I struggled somewhat with the ending. Think about his murder of the hunters when he interrogated them when trying to locate Ellie in winter.. It may not have been a terrible thing given the circumstances, but it was again about revenge. There was nothing humane about taking a machete to a guy's head when his mate has just told you where to find what you're looking for. He could have left them there, but he didn't, because it was how he learned to survive. My point is that nothing about his values changed throughout the story. Ellie happened to him.

Joel had formed such an attachment to Ellie, that in my view he chose to withhold the truth from her to protect his own interests, not hers. I have no doubt that she would have followed him and his choices at that point in time anyway, had he told her the truth... but he didnt want to risk it and wanted to keep his reason for living. What would he have done without her? He'd need to find a new reason to keep surviving.

Toshowyouwhy said:
Joel had seen every other inherently good person killed, and most of the time he allowed it. His friend at the start (name still escapes me...), Sam and Henry (whose family values mirrored his, and those present at Tommy's), and to a certain but more tenuous extent even Marlene. He refused to let it happen again to Ellie, no matter the cost.

I dunno, I'm just thinking. Perhaps this game is deeper than I initially had thought.

Also, how did everyone play the operating room? That was one of the best bits of a game I've ever seen, because you walk in there and are forced to completely use your instincts. I didn't even realise I didn't have to kill all, or indeed any of the surgeons until I read up on it later. In fact, I shot all three in the face and then went back to the guy with the knife and shot him in the head again. I guess the mental anguish of fighting through the bastards in the hospital took over, and that my desperation became real.
Click to expand...

I walked into the operating room and realised that the game would only give me one choice. I didn't want to kill any of them but the first guy makes you take him out when you walk towards Ellie. The other option was to turn off the PS3... basically no choice. I did leave the other two surgeons, though :p

The way I see it, this game was about a relationship between Joel and Ellie, how they related and connected with each other and formed a special bond. It was also about what it takes to survive; how much of a mental battle it is to get up each day and survive when all odds are against you. In fact, I'd say Naughty Dog deliberately made the game such a moral conflict so as to demonstrate that the story was not about right or wrong at all. Joel was a likable character, but he was no saint. The player/viewer was meant to see him for all his good and bad attributes. It was about his story, no less and no more.
 
Igloo said:
In regard to the surgeons, I killed them all. But I used my fists. By chance, I killed the two guys first, then I felt bad with this woman crouching on the ground crying. But then I booted her in the face, and she died. I didn't realise you could leave them either until my brother told me the other day. Killer instinct kicked in.
Click to expand...

I could just picture you sitting there, laughing maniacally and admiring the slaughter.

You are a sick man.

PS. I killed them all too.
 

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Brilliant post Mumbo Jumbo. I love games that ask questions of your own morality.

I do disagree with the notion that Joel is wholly soulless though. I think his motivations shifted at Tommy's farm. He contemplated deserting her there, but I do think his conscience drove him to look after her. This continued to develop. Keep in mind how important the prologue is, and how emotionally driven the scene of Sarah's death is. Keep in mind how closely it is mirrored as Joel carries Ellie through the hospital. In my opinion this is very intentional, and was designed to bookend Joel's emotional 360. He held a little dying girl in his arms, he suffered and battled with that for 20 years before finally coming full circle and finding another little girl that he would do the same for. Think back to when he rescues her from David, he says "it's alright baby girl...". No doubt at all in my mind that having list Sarah, Joel refused to see Ellie suffer a similar fate. It was more than an obligation.

While I agree that his decision ultimately was a selfish, it was selfish because of his unwavering desire to protect Ellie. Joel is a monster, and the tiny references to his pre-game past seem to only enhance this. But he was a monster because of what happened to Sarah, and he reevaluated himself because of Ellie. Letting her die would be finishing the mission. Keeping her alive is a completely emotional choice.
 
What issue did you have with the ladders Toshowyouwhy? I don't think I had any problem putting it down in the right spot. Just go close enough to the wall and it generally gives you the prompt to set it up with triangle.

Couldn't see how you'd have so many issues. :eek:
 
Cruyff14 said:
Did anyone jump while playing?

I did once when
that James guy stabbed Ellie in the restaurant with the machete if you died
Click to expand...


I have twice so far, but am only about 70% through.

First was when one of the characters you meet in the game follow you around, and they decided to take the long route into a room through another door after I had walked in the front entry and had started searching through. Scared the shit out of me.

The other time was when

I was in the sewers, and you're with that Sam kid, and you get to the part where there are a bunch of infected just running around randomly (the area with the kid's playground and stuff). I was sitting back and waiting for them to come to me, and then just shooting their heads off with the shorty. But while I was waiting for one to come at me, another one screamed at me from my right where I just saw it out of the corner of my eye. I screamed like a little girl and proverbially shat myself.

I've had alot of heart in mouth moments, walking through empty buildings, up stairs, etc.
 
HBK619 said:
What issue did you have with the ladders Toshowyouwhy? I don't think I had any problem putting it down in the right spot. Just go close enough to the wall and it generally gives you the prompt to set it up with triangle.

Couldn't see how you'd have so many issues. :eek:
Click to expand...

Damn it, I knew I was gonna be the only douche that screwed it up...

Early on I don't think I realised there was a prompt, so I would get kinda close but not close enough and he'd just drop it. Plus he seemed to have real trouble lifting the damn thing, so it took ages.

100% human error though.
 

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It's annoying how you can't see what people are doing on the game. So you can't tell if they're afk or not. I hope they add some kind of function like that or make it so that you can join people's MP games.
 

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