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Assistant Coaches

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AFC979810 said:
So we return to the roundabout... Where was the praise for these guys in 2012? They had the same detractors in 2011 & 2013 - yet nobody said anything in 2012.

I didn't hear anyone go 'jeez how good is Clarke for elevating Jacobs performance to near All Australian form' - or 'how good did Campo have Danger, Thommo, Sloane and Wright working those clearances'.

This thread is the reason why AAMI stadium is often referred to as 'Moron Park'.
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Its bizarre isn't it, players and coaches being criticised when the team is out-of-form? And on an internet message board of all places. What's the world coming to?

Also your point about the assistants not getting any praise is bullshit. Here's a Toast thread dedicated to Camporeale in 2012 when our midfield actually still functioned. Proof that these so-called "morons" can give credit where it's due.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-camporeale.944303/#post-24181668

You can keep wanking off about 2012 but it's not going to change the fact we are getting close to the bottom 4.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
Its bizarre isn't it, players and coaches being criticised when the team is out-of-form? And on an internet message board of all places. What's the world coming to?

You can keep wanking off about 2012 but it's not going to change the fact we are getting close to the bottom 4.
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Its not bizarre at all. I have no problems with players and the head coach (whose performance even the average punter can watch and analyze every week) being criticised.

What I have an issue with is why people have a crack at the same assistant coaches who were here last year when we were very successful. All the detractors on this thread are having a crack at them yet providing no suggestions of what they are actually doing wrong, what they did right in 2012 and have moved away from, or anything that actually resembles a coherent argument about why they are to blame about our 2013.

Back to your original argument. You have not addressed your stupidity. In what way is Campo to blame for Thompson and VB regressing in 2013 - especially when he was the midfield coach over the past 3 years when Thommo won 2 B&F and VB placed top 10 in all 3 years (including coming 2nd). What have you seen / observed / heard to suggest that Campo is to blame for their drop off in form? Anything?
 
AFC979810 said:
Back to your original argument. You have not addressed your stupidity. In what way is Campo to blame for Thompson and VB regressing in 2013 - especially when he was the midfield coach over the past 3 years when Thommo won 2 B&F and VB placed top 10 in all 3 years (including coming 2nd). What have you seen / observed / heard to suggest that Campo is to blame for their drop off in form? Anything?
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You can't have it both ways. You can't lavish praise on a coach when things are going well and then just absolve them of responsibility when it all goes south.

You really don't think coaches are in any way responsible for a players form? They don't set the standards, condition the players and prepare them? Their whole job is to keep the players performing. This is what assistant coaches are getting judged on.

I'm willing to concede that form slumps may not be Campo's fault directly but it's his responsibility to make our midfield work as a unit and it's just not happening. I don't have a vendetta against the guy, I just think some new ideas and experience might really help.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
Also your point about the assistants not getting any praise is bullshit. Here's a Toast thread dedicated to Camporeale in 2012 when our midfield actually still functioned. Proof that these so-called "morons" can give credit where it's due.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-camporeale.944303/#post-24181668

You can keep wanking off about 2012 but it's not going to change the fact we are getting close to the bottom 4.
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Jesus - how many edits do you want to make.

Congrats - you found one thread on it with a massive 6 posts praising Campo (the other 6 posts are having a crack at Reilly/Douglas/Vince - no surprises there I guess). I would call this thread the exception that proves the rule (that this board is full of posters who give Aami Stadium the nickname - Moron Park).

I don't keep wanking on about 2012. I just want to know why you blame Thommo and VB's drop off in 2013 the reason that Campo should be sacked?
 

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AFC979810 said:
Jesus - how many edits do you want to make.

Congrats - you found one thread on it with a massive 6 posts praising Campo (the other 6 posts are having a crack at Reilly/Douglas/Vince - no surprises there I guess). I would call this thread the exception that proves the rule (that this board is full of posters who give Aami Stadium the nickname - Moron Park).

I don't keep wanking on about 2012. I just want to know why you blame Thommo and VB's drop off in 2013 the reason that Campo should be sacked?
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The edits are only there to avoid turning this into a 100 page thread.

You asked me where the praise was in 2012 and I got an example for you. What are you complaining about?
 
Mr_Moogle said:
You can't have it both ways. You can't lavish praise on a coach when things are going well and then just absolve them of responsibility when it all goes south.

You really don't think coaches are in any way responsible for a players form? They don't set the standards, condition the players and prepare them? Their whole job is to keep the players performing. This is what assistant coaches are getting judged on.

I'm willing to concede that form slumps may not be Campo's fault directly but it's his responsibility to make our midfield work as a unit and it's just not happening. I don't have a vendetta against the guy, I just think some new ideas and experience might really help.
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I am not asking for it both ways. I don't think the Assistant Coaches were a major reason for our rise in 2012. Neither do I think they are a reason for our decline in 2013.

The problem I have is with the idiots (such as yourself) who call them out during the bad seasons, yet say nothing during the good seasons - especially when you cannot possibly know how they are performing.

My point is this - Even the most educated and fanatical supporter cannot know how an assistant coach is performing. To blame them for our decline is stupidity. To blame them for our decline and not credit them for our success is pure stupidity (and an example of the stereotypical Crows fan at AAMI).
 
Mr_Moogle said:
The edits are only there to avoid turning this into a 100 page thread.

You asked me where the praise was in 2012 and I got an example for you. What are you complaining about?
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I am not complaining.

I was simply stating that your comments were ridiculous. For instance - stating that Campo should be sacked for Thommo and VB's 2013 form was stupidity. You should retract that.

I feel this thread is the worst thread on the Adelaide Board right now. Its people trying to find scapegoats for our poor form in 2013.
 
AFC979810 said:
I am not asking for it both ways. I don't think the Assistant Coaches were a major reason for our rise in 2012. Neither do I think they are a reason for our decline in 2013.

The problem I have is with the idiots (such as yourself) who call them out during the bad seasons, yet say nothing during the good seasons - especially when you cannot possibly know how they are performing.

My point is this - Even the most educated and fanatical supporter cannot know how an assistant coach is performing. To blame them for our decline is stupidity. To blame them for our decline and not credit them for our success is pure stupidity (and an example of the stereotypical Crows fan at AAMI).
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It basically feels like your telling me I can't have opinions about a football team because I don't work there. The results are clear as day though. I don't need to know the inner workings of the club and its assistants to know that our midfield doesn't work hard enough or look even nearly organised enough to win against decent opposition. If that's not Campo's responsibility, what is?

It's not stupidity. As I said before, it's only speculation. It's my opinion that we need some new ideas to get the midfield working. I don't think for a second that all of the blame should be solely placed on Camporeale but this is how the football industry works. Coaches live and die on the performances of others.
 
AFC979810 said:
I am not asking for it both ways. I don't think the Assistant Coaches were a major reason for our rise in 2012. Neither do I think they are a reason for our decline in 2013.

The problem I have is with the idiots (such as yourself) who call them out during the bad seasons, yet say nothing during the good seasons - especially when you cannot possibly know how they are performing.

My point is this - Even the most educated and fanatical supporter cannot know how an assistant coach is performing. To blame them for our decline is stupidity. To blame them for our decline and not credit them for our success is pure stupidity (and an example of the stereotypical Crows fan at AAMI).
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I think the assessment by Sando that the coaching box has struggled without the presence of Bailey this season, coupled with the surprising revelation that as well as general matchday strategy, Bailey's other task is to assist/mentor Campo, is an indictment on Campo's ability to form a good, cohesive, midfield group.

I've said it for a while now - Campo may be good one on one, but he sucks as a midfield coordinator.
 
AFC979810 said:
Brilliant contribution. Where were these threads in 2012?

Lets be honest here, Assistant Coaches are the ultimate whipping boys and this is the topic that Big Footy Posters are least qualified to discuss.

You can judge a head coach directly on performance, you can judge a player directly on performance. We simply are not in a position to discuss how an Assistant Coach is performing.

So instead of making a sarcastic bullshit post - how about you provide an example of how our assistant coaches have regressed so much from 2012? I don't think you can and think you are talking out of your arse again.
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It was a limited post because the point was so self evident. I'm not inclined to waste time explaining the simple to the simple. Yes, coaches tend to face less scrutiny when the team is successful. No shit. That means that when the same coaches fail dismally we shouldn't criticise!

I do like the thought that assistant coaches have no responsibility and hence cannot be assessed for the performance of the player groups they manage. Our ruck coach for example would be thrilled to know that he should in no way be assessed on the performance of our ruckmen.
 
AFC979810 said:
So we return to the roundabout... Where was the praise for these guys in 2012? They had the same detractors in 2011 & 2013 - yet nobody said anything in 2012.
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I think you've hit on something here. We should just ignore current results and insist that 2012 is the only thing that matters. We'll fly the team over to Melbourne for the finals. When people question why we're there we'll respond with:

'You didn't tell us we couldn't be here in 2012! MORONS!'
 
There has been 1 major difference (missing element) in the coaching box this year v last year ... & it has shown up those remaining as lacking matchday nouse. This does need to be addressed. 1 quality person can cover-up weaknesses of others...
 
AFC979810 said:
I am not asking for it both ways. I don't think the Assistant Coaches were a major reason for our rise in 2012. Neither do I think they are a reason for our decline in 2013.
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So they have no impact on performance?

And you're calling out others for "pure stupidity"

If Campo and Doc Clarke are doing a good job, they'll be fending off overtures from strong clubs very soon.
 

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Kane McGoodwin said:
There has been 1 major difference (missing element) in the coaching box this year v last year ... & it has shown up those remaining as lacking matchday nouse. This does need to be addressed. 1 quality person can cover-up weaknesses of others...
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Will be interesting to see how the matchday gameplans evolve with Bailey back in there this week.....
 
Glenno23 said:
Will be interesting to see how the matchday gameplans evolve with Bailey back in there this week.....
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As a Carlton supporting mate of mine pointed out to me the other day, Dean Bailey took Melbourne to 8 wins... the guy could well be a coaching mastermind.
 

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AFC979810 said:
I am not asking for it both ways. I don't think the Assistant Coaches were a major reason for our rise in 2012. Neither do I think they are a reason for our decline in 2013.

The problem I have is with the idiots (such as yourself) who call them out during the bad seasons, yet say nothing during the good seasons - especially when you cannot possibly know how they are performing.

My point is this - Even the most educated and fanatical supporter cannot know how an assistant coach is performing. To blame them for our decline is stupidity. To blame them for our decline and not credit them for our success is pure stupidity (and an example of the stereotypical Crows fan at AAMI).
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Do you ever and I mean EVER have anything positive to say and feel better by belittling and name calling ?
 
It is obvious we need changes within our assistant coaches and have missed Bailey especially on match day.
Who is failing as supporters we dont really know .
Most of us believe that rucking structure really failing us and cant put all the blame on Jacobs .
Clarke does not evoke a lot of confidence from me fro interviews and meeting personally and think this was another job for boys , but as a friend of Sando will he make the right call.
Whilst on friends what has Milburn brought to club , although hard to tell but certainly dont like seeing him in Sandos pocket match day . Some aspects of defence good but mids and small forwards have found open spaces in our defensive area too easy for uncontested goals.
Bickley ---- Definitely not a forward coach as obvious structure wrong and selections where must have say have been weird.
do you move him out of forward to elsewhere or the door . Honestly I dont know.
Camporeale --- Mid coach . Well although some good players in there we have dropped so low in many areas of winning a game of football in clearances etc etc etc . If Campo does not get moved on then have to say some of our mids will be moved on.
On surface looks like there has to be a change here . Maybe Bickley might get moved here.
Most important get a full footy bag of cash and get best fitness coach available stuffed up last year missing Burgess and getting wrong guy .. Fix it .
Welcome back Dean and give Milburn a hip and shoulder off Sandos lap.
 
The defense is as young as it's ever been (Brown, Laird, Smith, Talia) and they are standing up. They are the problem. I think Milburn is doing a splendid job with the players at his disposal.

Need a proper forward as forward coach.

What makes you think Clarke & Sando are mates? Did they ever play together (doubtful)?
 
Bacon8 said:
The defense is as young as it's ever been (Brown, Laird, Smith, Talia) and they are standing up. They are the problem. I think Milburn is doing a splendid job with the players at his disposal.

Need a proper forward as forward coach.

What makes you think Clarke & Sando are mates? Did they ever play together (doubtful)?
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They are but whether believe or not it is up to you.
Accept your point re young back line but my main concern with Milburn is not to have as match day back up to Sando which seems the case .
He is a rookie in coaching.
 

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