List Mgmt. Our Recruiting Department

[Scubaveg]

Our list is in terrible shape. Yet we keep hearing how great Rob Kerr is as a list manager. Thought its time we take a more detailed look at our list management over the past 4-5 years. In this time we have practically turned over an entire list since 2010 and yet we are still bottom of the ladder and looking favourite for the spoon right now. We have turned over 42 players since 2010.


2010 - 16 Players including:

Harding, Dzfuer, Spackman, King, Roe, Clouston, Harding


2011 - 10 Players including:

Sherman, Brennan, Selwood, Johnston, Proud, McCulloch, McCauley,


2012 - 9 Players including:

Stiller, Hawksley, Sheldon, Retzlaff, Harvey, Dyson


2013 - 7 Players including:

McKeever, Wrigley, Newell


Some really poor recruiting amongst this list. Can see another major list overhaul at the end of this year. With up to 9 players including Raines, McGuire, Polkinghorne, Wearden, Lisle, Bewick, Martin, Crisp and possibly Sam Michael all looking down the barrel of being delisted at the end of 2014 (and thats without counting retirements for guys like Browny and McGrath) which takes the number over 11.


All this and we still sit on the bottom of the ladder. The focus during this time has been on the coaching role, perhaps the focus is incorrectly placed here and should instead be targeting the recruitment department.

 

[a mayes ing]

Yep, doesnt look good. Recruiting shocking. However, l feel that this year and last year's recruits were gems. But we won't know that until another 2 years or so.

 

[Skoob]

Our list is in terrible shape. Yet we keep hearing how great Rob Kerr is as a list manager. Thought its time we take a more detailed look at our list management over the past 4-5 years. In this time we have practically turned over an entire list since 2010 and yet we are still bottom of the ladder and looking favourite for the spoon right now. We have turned over 42 players since 2010.


2010 - 16 Players including:

Harding, Dzfuer, Spackman, King, Roe, Clouston, Harding


2011 - 10 Players including:

Sherman, Brennan, Selwood, Johnston, Proud, McCulloch, McCauley,


2012 - 9 Players including:

Stiller, Hawksley, Sheldon, Retzlaff, Harvey, Dyson


2013 - 7 Players including:

McKeever, Wrigley, Newell


Some really poor recruiting amongst this list. Can see another major list overhaul at the end of this year. With up to 9 players including Raines, McGuire, Polkinghorne, Wearden, Lisle, Bewick, Martin, Crisp and possibly Sam Michael all looking down the barrel of being delisted at the end of 2014 (and thats without counting retirements for guys like Browny and McGrath) which takes the number over 11.


All this and we still sit on the bottom of the ladder. The focus during this time has been on the coaching role, perhaps the focus is incorrectly placed here and should instead be targeting the recruitment department.

Not saying that it is not a valid concern, but you state 42 players turned over, then say 32 over the period, but only list 23.
Being selective? You surely need to look at all outs measured against all ins?

 

[JasRulz63]

I agree our recruiting has been poor over the years, but most of those players that you listed that left the club are players drafted before Rob Kerr's era.

 

[chopperduck]

Where were these threads after round 2 ... not a knee jerk reaction at all.

 

[Scubaveg]

Not saying that it is not a valid concern, but you state 42 players turned over, then say 32 over the period, but only list 23.
Being selective? You surely need to look at all outs measured against all ins?

Not saying that it is not a valid concern, but you state 42 players turned over, then say 32 over the period, but only list 23.
Being selective? You surely need to look at all outs measured against all ins?

Skoob I did say including, it wasn't my intention to include the entire list of the players turned over during that time. The point is I guess, that we have recruited very badly, sure those players listed here where selected from the list of 42 turned over during that time. Many of those listed did not play a single game or played only a handful which in itself is an indictment on the recruitment isn't it?

Not sure where the reference to 32 comes from.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Well yes our list is in terrible shape and our club has made some very poor decisions int he past. There really is no point dwelling on the past. We just have to get it right now and trade and draft our way out of this position.

 

[SizeMatters]

If the go home 5 were still here everyone will be saying how great we have been drafting. Polec is the recruit of the year and Yeo has managed to cement a best 22 spot in a top of the ladder team, while the rest have been injured but are all talented. Longer was probably the only poor draft choice we have had under Kerr as he wasn't needed and he was probably a top 20 pick but not a pick 8. Blokes like Bennell and Patton could have been running around with us yesterday if it wasn't for GWS and GCS entering into the competition at the same time we are bottoming out. We all know deep down the reason these blokes left and Kerr couldn't have done anything about it... we needed stability and support and they never got it.

 

[Scubaveg]

Well yes our list is in terrible shape and our club has made some very poor decisions int he past. There really is no point dwelling on the past. We just have to get it right now and trade and draft our way out of this position.

On the basis of past performance I would suggest those in charge of the recruitment department are not the people to turn this around though.

 

[jackess]

Our list almost got us in the finals last year.

 

[Bucking Beads]

On the basis of past performance I would suggest those in charge of the recruitment department are not the people to turn this around though.

The recruiters and list managers that made our list what it is aren't even at the club anymore.

 

[Skoob]

Skoob I did say including, it wasn't my intention to include the entire list of the players turned over during that time. The point is I guess, that we have recruited very badly, sure those players listed here where selected from the list of 42 turned over during that time. Many of those listed did not play a single game or played only a handful which in itself is an indictment on the recruitment isn't it?

Not sure where the reference to 32 comes from.

I mis-counted the 32, sorry.
I know you didn't want to name all 42, but why? To save time or because not as many duds as you'd like to think? I don't know, I'm not looking for them. My point was that selective info to make your argument is misleading. You have also focused on drafting, but state that "list management is aweful". Surely part of managing a list is weeding out the undesirables, unsuccessfuls and unlikelys. To make a judgement on list management, you need to present and look at the whole picture, not just list half the outs that were below par.

 

[Dylan12]

Not saying I disagree, but to be fair, including the rookies in this sort of assessment is pretty unfair and can easily skew the numbers.

 

[chopperduck]

This is a moot point and its something weve known for the past 3 years at least. Our problem isnt the recent drafting, all the players you mentioned were at the club prior to Kerr, and were drafted by different people than those in charge now.

Ive gome through before myself, have a look at how many players we have still on our list from the 04-09 drafts. That is the 5 year period that has put us where we are now. Our drafting since then has been decent, considering the co ditions weve been under whilst doing it. Losing 3 top recent picks, will hurt us as well, but if anything, those players are showing that our talent identification is spot on.

There is no point blaming the people who are now trying to fix the mess instead of the twits who created it, and there is no way to get around it unless we do a lot of trading for established players.

The comparisons of us to port were interesting, whilst they had plenty of younger players themselves, the overall liat balance ia much better, and the older players a lot more effective than ours. Players like Rocky and Redden should not be carrying the load of our team at around 23 years of age. We should have 2 or 3 players in our midfield around 26-29 who should be the main act. Because of the rubbish list management we had 04-09, we are missing these players. Wines is all class, but he has Boak and Cornes above him. Our equivalent, Rocky, isnt the 3rd string, he is the main act. We NEED our current young players to turn out good, and we NEED the next few drafts to produce some good talent as well, so in 3 years time we have Rocky, Rich, Redden Zorko in that late 20's prime, and we have a quality 2nd tier of players in their 3rd and 4th years, looking to go to the next level, with 1 or 2 1st and/or 2nd year players coming through.

The only way we can do this quicker is if we can score through trade and free agency, but I dont like our chances of attracting players. We need good drafting now and some patience to correct mistakes that were made over 5 years ago.

 

[cotter101]

Our list is in terrible shape. Yet we keep hearing how great Rob Kerr is as a list manager. Thought its time we take a more detailed look at our list management over the past 4-5 years. In this time we have practically turned over an entire list since 2010 and yet we are still bottom of the ladder and looking favourite for the spoon right now. We have turned over 42 players since 2010.


2010 - 16 Players including:

Harding, Dzfuer, Spackman, King, Roe, Clouston, Harding


2011 - 10 Players including:

Sherman, Brennan, Selwood, Johnston, Proud, McCulloch, McCauley,


2012 - 9 Players including:

Stiller, Hawksley, Sheldon, Retzlaff, Harvey, Dyson


2013 - 7 Players including:

McKeever, Wrigley, Newell


Some really poor recruiting amongst this list. Can see another major list overhaul at the end of this year. With up to 9 players including Raines, McGuire, Polkinghorne, Wearden, Lisle, Bewick, Martin, Crisp and possibly Sam Michael all looking down the barrel of being delisted at the end of 2014 (and thats without counting retirements for guys like Browny and McGrath) which takes the number over 11.


All this and we still sit on the bottom of the ladder. The focus during this time has been on the coaching role, perhaps the focus is incorrectly placed here and should instead be targeting the recruitment department.

Kerr did join us until what, 2009 or 2010?

Since then we have picked up the following players: Harwood, Golby, Beams, Lester, Green, Clarke, Bourke, Mayes, Paparone, Aish, Cutler, Robertson, Taylor, Gardiner, McStay, Conway and O'Brien.

That's a pretty decent young group of players just there. If you went back another year and added Rich, Redden and Rockliff to that group. We've done well with our drafting in recent times. Imagine that group if Yeo, Polec, Docherty, Longer and Karnezis didn't leave(Obviously we may not have been able to secure Cutler and co if they didn't).

But it still back up our current good drafting record.

We just need to keep adding in every position.

 

[Football Pope]

Yep ....Why did we employ a list manager that cant recognise players that are going to suffer sickness, either home or injury .........



Somewhere

 

[carnthemlions]

Our list is in terrible shape. Yet we keep hearing how great Rob Kerr is as a list manager. Thought its time we take a more detailed look at our list management over the past 4-5 years. In this time we have practically turned over an entire list since 2010 and yet we are still bottom of the ladder and looking favourite for the spoon right now. We have turned over 42 players since 2010.


2010 - 16 Players including:

Harding, Dzfuer, Spackman, King, Roe, Clouston, Harding


2011 - 10 Players including:

Sherman, Brennan, Selwood, Johnston, Proud, McCulloch, McCauley,


2012 - 9 Players including:

Stiller, Hawksley, Sheldon, Retzlaff, Harvey, Dyson


2013 - 7 Players including:

McKeever, Wrigley, Newell

I can't be bothered Addressing the rest of your post, but are you really claiming that delisting an Irishman and 2 other rookies is anything other than normal?
Unnecessary thread.

 

[Dizzle]

Yep ....Why did we employ a list manager that cant recognise players that are going to suffer sickness, either home or injury .........



Somewhere

"Do you like your family?"
"Yes"
"On your way then scamp. No place for you at our club."

 

[carnthemlions]

"Do you like your family?"
"Yes"
"On your way then scamp. No place for you at our club."

We should only recruit orphans from now on.

 

[luthor]

The truth is that we would have been a whole lot better off if GC and GWS weren't given the absolute cream of the crop over the last 4 drafting periods.......just as we were bottoming out.

You can argue till the cows come home about who we should have drafted at pick 6, 7, 8 ,15, 23, 52 or whatever, The fact is we have NOT got picks commensurate with our ladder position for years on end. Arguments about how "good" or "bad" our recruiting have been in this period have to be viewed in this context.

Revisionist theories about "identifying" Go Home candidates are just silly.

 

[Nunez]

No offense, but heaping the blame on Kerr is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Big Lion]

Recent drafting has been good, it's the earlier drafting that's hurting us today. Early days but the 2013 kids look decent.

 

[Gibbo_88]

The truth is that we would have been a whole lot better off if GC and GWS weren't given the absolute cream of the crop over the last 4 drafting periods.......just as we were bottoming out.

You can argue till the cows come home about who we should have drafted at pick 6, 7, 8 ,15, 23, 52 or whatever, The fact is we have NOT got picks commensurate with our ladder position for years on end. Arguments about how "good" or "bad" our recruiting have been in this period have to be viewed in this context.

Revisionist theories about "identifying" Go Home candidates are just silly.

If GC & GWS didn't exist we may have had access to a higher quality of player at each draft choice but so would the clubs that we are trying to beat. I don't agree that we would be a whole lot better. We would still have had an under resourced football department.

 

[western royboy]

Heard Dermott on radio recently talking about the resources the Hawks were able to put into recruiting that unveiled gems like Breust, Suckling etc.

They put significant additional funding into scouting other sides reserves and rookie lists as opposed to TAC cup - History would say that it paid off. That's really why our financial predicament will prevent us from ever challenging for a long time.

 

[Crawb]

These are the guys recruited from 06-10 in the draft that are still on our list, everyone else = gone:
2006: Leuenberger
2007: Polkinghorne, Hanley
2008: Rich, Redden, Rockliff
2009: Harwood
2010: Lester, Green, Beams

Plus the exodus of all our good draft picks pretty much since 2011 (except Mayes). It's no wonder we're not looking good. Apart from 2008, we've been rubbish at the draft. Here is hoping the 2013 draft will be another 2008...