No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[cymarak]

Where there is smoke there]s fire.

"If enough mud is thrown, some will stick".

 

[GandalfTheDon]

"If enough mud is thrown, some will stick".

We were Teflon at the start of this. Seems some of the pan has become a bit sticky a year and a half later though

 

[DonsRule]

At the same time, why would ASADA make this big song and dance about this if they were just going to get slapped down easily?

I mean come on, they have had many international experts review the briefs and the embarrassment and condemnation they would get if their evidence was virtually non-existent would far outweigh ASADA saying there's nothing to pursue. Hell, they didn't even pursue AOD which debunks the whole 'they're putting on a show' rhetoric.

We know they reviewed it, we don't know exactly what their review said; I'm not suggesting there is no evidence, but you have an arguable case with flaws is different to you have a water tight case too.

Are they under pressure from anyone? Public? WADA?

 

[yaco55]

I have absolutely no issue with those who believe we're better off without Hird. My issue is that I believe a majority of those with that mindset are using information obtained from the media to form those opinions. I'm of the view that the media is SERIOUSLY biased in every aspect of this situation, and that most things printed will purposely show the negative side of everything in relation to us.

Shit, if those opinions are formed after reading the information posted in these threads, the documents, independent articles, and everything else, then that's completely fine and your entitled to your opinion (obviously).

I just hate to see people buying into the media's bullshit, especially when it's created solely to detriment our club

Wow ! - Do you realise this post represents the worse of the debate on the HTB - Posters are more than capable of forming their own independent opinions - Following your logic the new 'strawman' in any debate is 'your opinion has been influenced by the media.'

Anyway the next debate will revolve around an EGM - It's only a matter of time.

 

[yaco55]

We know they reviewed it, we don't know exactly what their review said; I'm not suggesting there is no evidence, but you have an arguable case with flaws is different to you have a water tight case too.

Are they under pressure from anyone? Public? WADA?

I have no idea why ASADA issued infraction notices - Well actually I do - Political interference - It's as plain as day.

 

[GandalfTheDon]

Wow ! - Do you realise this post represents the worse of the debate on the HTB - Posters are more than capable of forming their own independent opinions - Following your logic the new 'strawman' in any debate is 'your opinion has been influenced by the media.'

Anyway the next debate will revolve around an EGM - It's only a matter of time.

So me saying I feel there are a fair few out there whose opinions are formed based on the media (based on the fact they are basically parroting what's in the papers), automatically translates to me claiming anyone who has a different opinion to mine must have been influenced by the media.

THIS is the issue with the current state of debate. Comprehension. I clearly stated I understand there are those who have formed opinions based on reputable sources, and I'm sure there's merit in their arguments. But I stand by my statement that there are a lot of people who either don't have the time, or aren't willing, to dig into this a bit more and form their opinions on sources other than the media.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but please don't twist my words. I'm simply putting forward what I believe to be the issue with a lot of the arguments against Hird. Obviously I want Hird to stay, and so therefore I accept there may be some bias in my arguments. But I certainly do not believe, and haven't indicated, that I think everyone who wants Hird to go has simply been influenced by the media.

 

[DonsRule]

Wow ! - Do you realise this post represents the worse of the debate on the HTB - Posters are more than capable of forming their own independent opinions - Following your logic the new 'strawman' in any debate is 'your opinion has been influenced by the media.'

Anyway the next debate will revolve around an EGM - It's only a matter of time.

I think Humble Minion made the point fairly well on BB.

We hired Hird last year to extend his coaching for 2 years at the time there were no infractions, if we sack him for an external reason, namely the AFL or the media we're weaker for it. Unless something is proven that chances.


The unrest with some on Simon Madden was long before this latest episode, some had issue with with the players cracking the shits with the PA, which Madden was a part of. That he wasn't standing up for the players then from a few that seem to know a little more. There is the issue.

 

[DonsRule]

I have no idea why ASADA issued infraction notices - Well actually I do - Political interference - It's as plain as day.

I agree, I'd making the point with Prosecutor why ASADA may be pushing the SCN without solid evidence, they may be under pressure either way, guess none of us know tbh

 

[rumply]

I have no idea why ASADA issued infraction notices - Well actually I do - Political interference - It's as plain as day.

This is probably right - the ex-judge wasnt just sent in there to oversee, he was also sent to ensure ASADA achieved a tangible result. Mcdevitt's behaviour post SC notices all but confirms that, it was a sales pitch pure & simple.

 

[byronstjames]

SC notices mean that they feel they have enough evidence for infractions to be issued and is part of the process of infractions being issued.

To pass it away as nothing and ASADA just putting on a show is incredibly naive. I don't have the exact figure on me, but something like 90+ per cent of SC notices result in in infraction notices.

I believe this was clarified to something like 90% of SC notices result in infranctions notices WHEN accompanied by a positive sample.

I do also believe that ASADA had their hand forced. They needed to follow this through as it's the highest profile case they've even been involved in. Politics has played as much a hand in the decision to issue SN's as much as anything else.

 

[Jobe Watson]

I'd agree with it coming from Tim that it had to have some player backing.

Luke Darcy said unequivocally on Friday night that Tim's opinion was his own and it was not fed to him by anyone at the club.

 

[Beerfish]

I completely deconstructed your rubbish a couple of days ago, but the mods in their infinite wisdom decided discussion wasn't allowed and closed the thread.

All for discussion Ben. What was going on in that thread degenerated pretty quickly to something less than.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

At the same time, why would ASADA make this big song and dance about this if they were just going to get slapped down easily?

I mean come on, they have had many international experts review the briefs and the embarrassment and condemnation they would get if their evidence was virtually non-existent would far outweigh ASADA saying there's nothing to pursue.

I think the problem with this angle is that SCs have been delivered to the entire list (or close to it), when what circumstantial evidence of TB4 does exist suggests a far smaller group of players. That smacks of a fishing expedition to me.

 

[yaco55]

I think Humble Minion made the point fairly well on BB.

We hired Hird last year to extend his coaching for 2 years at the time there were no infractions, if we sack him for an external reason, namely the AFL or the media we're weaker for it. Unless something is proven that chances.


The unrest with some on Simon Madden was long before this latest episode, some had issue with with the players cracking the shits with the PA, which Madden was a part of. That he wasn't standing up for the players then from a few that seem to know a little more. There is the issue.

But exactly what role did Madden have with the AFLPA at this time ?

At the end of the day Madden was elected by the members - We've had some on this board calling for the head of the unelected Little - This is the state of debate !

 

[yaco55]

Really the most damning thing about all this is that nothing else had developed RE hird since he was suspended last year.

Yet it seems like a growing number of Essendon supporters are willing to can Hird based solely on our performance this year (was I the only one enjoying our first half dominance last year?), and the media spun bullshit.

I posted in August last year that it was time for a fresh start.

I am surprised that the players are so supportive of Hird - I would be dirty !

 

[westking]

I am surprised that the players are so supportive of Hird - I would be dirty !

Ive pondered this too. I can only conclude that it speaks volumes. Hird and the players really know what the truth is. I dont think the board did or does.

 

[DonsRule]

But exactly what role did Madden have with the AFLPA at this time ?

At the end of the day Madden was elected by the members - We've had some on this board calling for the head of the unelected Little - This is the state of debate !

Was on their board.

 

[SizzleChest]

I have no idea why ASADA issued infraction notices - Well actually I do - Political interference - It's as plain as day.

Why do you think there has been political interference post the 'no fault' deal? I don't see what good would come of an ASADA win for the current government. If anything, I think it might be detrimental - particually after Abbott suggested TDDIAS may have been a political stunt.

 

[DonsRule]

Why do you think there has been political interference post the 'no fault' deal? I don't see what good would come of an ASADA win for the current government. If anything, I think it might be detrimental - particually after Abbott suggested TDDIAS may have been a political stunt.

What obligations to ASADA and the govt have to WADA, what fallout would there be if out govt stepped in and threw a case out within the world sporting community. I think it is one the govt are almost forced to lay their hands off unless there was something catastrophically wrong with the case.

 

[yaco55]

This is probably right - the ex-judge wasnt just sent in there to oversee, he was also sent to ensure ASADA achieved a tangible result. Mcdevitt's behaviour post SC notices all but confirms that, it was a sales pitch pure & simple.

My understanding is that the judge recommended that ASADA not to issue SC's. Of course I could be wrong !

Political interference - Ask the question - Why no SC's to Cronulla players ?

 

[yaco55]

Was on their board.

It will be interesting to see how much influence the board has on the executive.

 

[2one2]

I quite seriously believe that a ****up around AOD led in part to these show causes. Think about it. If they just left it at nothing, the noise would be so loud from papers, WADA, the public etc asking why they didn't pursue if S0 is so straightforward. As it stands they have to do SOMETHING.

What kind of briefing judge downes was asked to do and why he also had no suggestion that they follow up on AOD is interesting.

Farken

 

[yaco55]

Why do you think there has been political interference post the 'no fault' deal? I don't see what good would come of an ASADA win for the current government. If anything, I think it might be detrimental - particually after Abbott suggested TDDIAS may have been a political stunt.

I suggest that the then Opposition got wind of the proposed AFL/ASADA agreement - They pressured the Governement to renege on the deal as they were a certainty to form Government in six months - I am looking at this inside the prism that the AFL was seen as a left leaning, ALP supporter - It's easy to see why this happened.

Sarah situation - We need to cut Robbo slack - Have no doubt that the HUN could reveal who is Sarah - The bigger picture is that this will bring down some important figures in footy - Not many go down this route.

 

[yaco55]

What obligations to ASADA and the govt have to WADA, what fallout would there be if out govt stepped in and threw a case out within the world sporting community. I think it is one the govt are almost forced to lay their hands off unless there was something catastrophically wrong with the case.

I actually think it is the opposite - The Govt encouraged the issuing of SC's - What happened to Cronulla.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I posted in August last year that it was time for a fresh start.

I am surprised that the players are so supportive of Hird - I would be dirty !

You've never played a team sport at a good enough level to understand. You have no idea about team culture and sticking by your mates.