Traded Dayne Beams and pick 67 traded for picks 5 and 25, and Jack Crisp

[Nintendo Jones]

Burgoyne was also going to a side where he would be about 10th in line for pay at best, and about 10th best player.

He wouldn't walk into a team as the highest paid, number 1 player in their team.

I really want us to get Beams, if that means we have to give up a Rocky, or a Hanley or a Rich or a Redden - then we should do it. We won't get many opportunities like this again where a proven elite player wants to come to us, ironically under the go home factor!

Pick 4 + Redden is about right for me.

No it's not... defeats the purpose of WHY we are trading for Beams.

 

[SSwans2011]

18 games in 3 seasons. Maybe Sydney are undervaluing him. I'm sure he will stay next yr. but if he doesn't get a decent run of senior games soon, he will start getting itchy feet and plenty of suitors with caneston at the ready

He will be best 22 next year, no doubt. Missed the first season due to injury and never looked back once he got his chance in his second season. This season he simply wasn't in the team due to structure, which will definitely change in the pre-season. Only went out of the team due to injury and was incredibly stiff. Look at his stats. Should have been in for Reid, but Horse was too stubborn to change the best 22. Plus, I don't think he'll be overly fussed, he's getting 400-500k a year.

 

[Nintendo Jones]

Pick 3 is pick 3, no matter how it comes about.

Then I no longer will listen to you on trading. Buddy was clearly worth more than pick 18, but that's how compensation works. No-one, especially those doing the compensation, think Frawley is better than Buddy, but the compensation system doiesn't work that way.

Melbourne couldn't trade Frawley for pick 3, so therefore your argument in flawed, and consequently moot.

Even bringing Frawley's compensation into talks on Beams is patently ridiculous

 

[FuManchu]

He will be best 22 next year, no doubt. Missed the first season due to injury and never looked back once he got his chance in his second season. This season he simply wasn't in the team due to structure, which will definitely change in the pre-season. Only went out of the team due to injury and was incredibly stiff. Look at his stats. Should have been in for Reid, but Horse was too stubborn to change the best 22. Plus, I don't think he'll be overly fussed, he's getting 400-500k a year.

That's a gross underestimation of players motivations, especially early on in their career. It's about getting game time.

What you have described is a mercenary who is more intent on dollars than being the best he can.

 

[jackess]

Free agency has changed the valuations significantly this yr. if Frawley is worth a pick 3 then Beams is worth more.

Much like real estate, you are in the current market, not last yrs or previous yrs markets.

It's actually done the complete opposite. It's made players worth less. Why would you overpay when you can get guys like Buddy or Goddard or Betts for free?

 

[FuManchu]

Then I no longer will listen to you on trading. Buddy was clearly worth more than pick 18, but that's how compensation works. No-one, especially those doing the compensation, think Frawley is better than Buddy, but the compensation system doiesn't work that way.

Melbourne couldn't trade Frawley for pick 3, so therefore your argument in flawed, and consequently moot.

Even bringing Frawley's compensation into talks on Beams is patently ridiculous

I didn't say it was a perfect system. But this yr, right here right now, beams is worth more than Frawley and Swann has intimated as much hence his statement.

Does that mean you won't listen to Swann as well?

 

[Nintendo Jones]

I didn't say it was a perfect system. But this yr, right here right now, beams is worth more than Frawley and Swann has intimated as much hence his statement.

Does that mean you won't listen to Swann as well?

I never said Beams wasn't worth more than Frawley - he is worth oodles more than Frawley. He is worth more than pick 4.

But comparing 3 for Frawley to whatever the Beams trade is is silly, beacuse one is a trade and one is compensation, and the two things are completely different

 

[FuManchu]

It's actually done the complete opposite. It's made players worth less. Why would you overpay when you can get guys like Buddy or Goddard or Betts for free?

youre making the mistake of dealing with markets in other years.

What is the trade market this year?

That's all you have to deal with.

What has happened prior to this has no impact on what the values afforded one player this yr.

Think real estate and think how much was paid last yr impacts on a buyer now. If you want the property now, you pay today's prices. If you don't, you miss out.

 

[SSwans2011]

That's a gross underestimation of players motivations, especially early on in their career. It's about getting game time.

What you have described is a mercenary who is more intent on dollars than being the best he can.

Not saying that at all. If that's the point I was trying to get across, I would have put it in the first sentence. What I am saying is Tom Mitchell KNOWS he will get opportunities at Sydney next year. The 400-500k is a nice little extra. Plus, he turned down 500k from Carlton, so what does that tell you? I was simply saying that he will get opportunities and is getting paid well, therefore he has no real reason to leave, and that is why he is not leaving.

 

[jackess]

youre making the mistake of dealing with markets in other years.

What is the trade market this year?

That's all you have to deal with.

What has happened prior to this has no impact on what the values afforded one player this yr.

Think real estate and think how much was paid last yr impacts on a buyer now. If you want the property now, you pay today's prices. If you don't, you miss out.

On the trade market this year; who is offering you more than the Lions?

We'll offer you all we can while the trade still improves our list and you have to remember that it's very likely that there won't be any readymade replacements on our list that are willing to go to Collingwood.

 

[FuManchu]

Not saying that at all. If that's the point I was trying to get across, I would have put it in the first sentence. What I am saying is Tom Mitchell KNOWS he will get opportunities at Sydney next year. The 400-500k is a nice little extra. Plus, he turned down 500k from Carlton, so what does that tell you? I was simply saying that he will get opportunities and is getting paid well, therefore he has no real reason to leave, and that is why he is not leaving.

What it says is that he wants to see if he can get a gig next yr at the Swans.

It doesn't take into account the Knocks on him not running both ways and will he change enough to get into that midfield. Because that is a midfield that works hard both ways. More so than most because the mids have to make up for a forward line devoid of any specialised smalls.

 

[FuManchu]

On the trade market this year; who is offering you more than the Lions?

We'll offer you all we can while the trade still improves our list and you have to remember that it's very likely that there won't be any readymade replacements on our list that are willing to go to Collingwood.

I'm sure other clubs will have to get involved. But the rule in all of these things is that you got to spend something to get something.

 

[dlanod]

I really want us to get Beams, if that means we have to give up a Rocky, or a Hanley or a Rich or a Redden - then we should do it. We won't get many opportunities like this again where a proven elite player wants to come to us, ironically under the go home factor!

Pick 4 + Redden is about right for me.

I don't see the benefit in doing a trade that doesn't make our team better. I'd argue that a Brayshaw (pick 4) + Redden would do more for our team than just Beams. I'd argue that the next captain in Rockliff would do more for the club than Beams (talking on and off field there). That's why giving away some of our top talent simply does not make sense when it comes to obtain Beams.

 

[jackess]

I think one of the following things will happen in order of likelihood;

1: beams will be traded to the Lions for something Lions fans would call fair.
2: he'll stay at Collingwood and we'll see what happens next year
And in a very distant third
3: beams will be traded to the Lions for something Collingwood fans would call fair; pick 4 and Redden

 

[Nintendo Jones]

I'm sure other clubs will have to get involved. But the rule in all of these things is that you got to spend something to get something.

Essentially you are going to get pick 4/5 and more picks... or pick 4/5 and a fringe player. Brisbane will work with Collingwood so that Collingwood's haul is useful to them (either in a player they can use, or picks they can on-trade).

It's not exactly what Collingwood are after... but if you take the first option of pick 4/5 and other picks, you put youself in a great position to be able to get an established player. The established players you want from Brisbane are not available.

 

[FuManchu]

Essentially you are going to get pick 4/5 and more picks... or pick 4/5 and a fringe player. Brisbane will work with Collingwood so that Collingwood's haul is useful to them (either in a player they can use, or picks they can on-trade).

It's not exactly what Collingwood are after... but if you take the first option of pick 4/5 and other picks, you put youself in a great position to be able to get an established player. The established players you want from Brisbane are not available.

We might be able to bundle your picks to another club. But Beams means someone will lose their role at the Lions. Someone will be looking over their shoulder feeling a little unsettled.

 

[Nintendo Jones]

We might be able to bundle your picks to another club. But Beams means someone will lose their role at the Lions. Someone will be looking over their shoulder feeling a little unsettled.

Of course they will... one of our fringe players... which is what we are willing to give you along side pick 4/5

 

[SSwans2011]

What it says is that he wants to see if he can get a gig next yr at the Swans.

It doesn't take into account the Knocks on him not running both ways and will he change enough to get into that midfield. Because that is a midfield that works hard both ways. More so than most because the mids have to make up for a forward line devoid of any specialised smalls.

Mate, he's one of our only two quality INSIDE midfielders along with JPK. The rest are outside midfielders. The knocks on him are simply people trying to come up with a reason as to why he's not in the team, when the only reason is structure. I'd put a shit tonne of cash on him being in the best line-up come round 1 next year. He's obviously not the perfect player, but he knows he will break into our line-up when he actually has a full pre-season under his belt and a couple more players leave or retire. Plus, he was exactly what we needed on Saturday.

 

[FuManchu]

Of course they will... one of our fringe players... which is what we are willing to give you along side pick 4/5

I don't think the unsettled player will be coming to Collingwood. This is a real difficult position for Brisbane. You are basically telling someone like Rockliff that Beams is worth more than him.

Is Besms worth more than Rockliff?

Egos are a precarious thing in football clubs

 

[Nintendo Jones]

I don't think the unsettled player will be coming to Collingwood. This is a real difficult position for Brisbane. You are basically telling someone like Rockliff that Beams is worth more than him.

Is Besms worth more than Rockliff?

Egos are a precarious thing in football clubs

Why is Rockliff concerned??? If I'm Ryan Lester or Jack Crisp I'm thinking it's harder to get into that 22... if I'm Rockliff I'm thinking, you beauty, another quality midfielder to give me a hand

 

[Slax]

Bomber does take on GC coaching job i have no doubt he chases Beams and makes this more interesting

More likely to chase Ryder I would of thought and it would definitely change the complexion of that trade.

 

[FuManchu]

Why is Rockliff concerned??? If I'm Ryan Lester or Jack Crisp I'm thinking it's harder to get into that 22... if I'm Rockliff I'm thinking, you beauty, another quality midfielder to give me a hand

Because no player has ever got their nose out of joint about an outsider coming in on more coin.

That's never happened! Especially when there was more than adequate money to pay them in the first place.

 

[Scotland]

I didn't say it was a perfect system. But this yr, right here right now, beams is worth more than Frawley and Swann has intimated as much hence his statement.

Applying your (absurd) logic:

Frawley = pick 3.

Beams > Frawley

Would you rather have pick 5 + pick 23 or pick 3?

 

[SugarCoat]

Is Beams a FA next year?
Just a ?
How many players have gone to others in the PSD the next year? Stevens?
How many players have sought a trade and ended up stating? ROK? Wayne Campbell.
PSD is a moot point.

 

[Nintendo Jones]

Because no player has ever got their nose out of joint about an outsider coming in on more coin.

That's never happened! Especially when there was more than adequate money to pay them in the first place.

Rockliff signed a 2 million dollar, 4-year deal last year... he's not worried... plus, if he came to the Lions and said I want the 700k that Beams is on, I reckon Brissy would pay it.