Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[dergert]

Looks like mattdougie and Ernie sigley will be sitting in a dark corner rocking back and forth knowing that macca is in charge for a while to come.

 

[Chicago1]

Interesting hypothetical - how would Bulldogs fans react if, say at the end of 2015, B-Mac was moved on and the board appointed Eade to come back?

Maybe Rocket and I can come back as a package deal or something.

 

[ErnieSigley]

They are interstate
Think about that
When is the last time a playing group rebelled because of their exit interviews - the jokes about our leadership group will be gold

Exactly how is the next coach going to address their performance
"Sorry Wil um could you mm chase just a little harder - no not being critical wil - look Mumm never mind - your a champ

How cute. You think its just about the exit interviews.

 

[ErnieSigley]

I'll say it again.. Bad recruiting is why we are where we are now and if you dont understand the long term implications of getting it wrong then I cant help you there. What I stated was clear that due to our bad history of recruiting we have not won a flag, and that NOW we are suffering as a result. Our list was on the decline when McCartney took over and was going to continue on that trend while we lost the older age bracket and did not have the adequate coverage in the 24-28 space.

My comment is not about who was coaching when the drafting was done, that's clear.

Those recruited from 2007-2009 should be in their prime, hitting their straps but remind me again from that draft period - who is still on the list and who is playing good football

Again that's not what was written.

 

[_Mike_]

Again that's not what was written.

What is this then?? Does it mention anything about Clarkson? I was not responding to any post directly that did make any correlation between McCartney and Clarkson

We've had a bad record at recruiting, had we recruited Roughead or Franklin in 2005 we'd have another flag by now. Look back to how many duds we've recruited. Look back at how St.Kilda stuffed themselves with Lyon's short term band aid fix (like Eade's) to try to snatch a flag and look at the downfall as a result of that.

We had 5 year patch of shitty recruting under Clayton and now we're paying the price. Hawthorn got it right and hence are reaping the rewards,

Regardless of the fact that Clarkson was coaching when they got Franklin and Roughead, the point is that the got it right which their drafting set them up for 3 flags over the following 10 year period

 

[Guido]

Would anyone else be ropeable if we were to give 2 2nd rounders (relatively early ones too mind you) for Sam Reid?

This kind of stuff kills me.

Maybe I got it wrong, but a vibe I got from the trading discussion with Garlick was that the footy department can't wait to get these picks in (compo, Jones) so they can use them on mature types.

I officially went bald the day of the Rawlings fiasco, don't want to know what's going to happen this time around if I see another potential premiership list butchered with short sightedness and throwing picks away like confetti. Potentially 4 top 30 picks ... unless it's a super deal, or paying slight overs for really top shelf 21 and unders, go to the draft boys, please just go to the draft.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Seriously Ernie this is where your short smart arse superficial opinions with no support make you look like either a fool or a troll. In the 3 years before Clarkson took over as coach including his first year Hawthorn got in the following players:
Luke Hodge
Jordan Lewis
Sam Mitchell
Buddy Franklin
Jarryd Roughhead
Brad Sewll
Trent Croad
Peter Everitt
Campbell Brown
Trent Croad
Michale Osbourne
Clinton Young

Who Exactly did Macca start with from the prior 3 drafts and trade and his first trade that goes even remotely close to this core of key players

You like twisting things incorrectly to oppose what I say.
So you want the 3 years before Clarkson to include his first year?
We too had existing very good players easily comparable to pre Clarkson players
Take off Franklin, Lewis, Roughead and Croad (came back in Clarko's first year) your list
Wasn't Bmac allowed to recruit in his first year?

 

[LondonBulldog]

What is this then?? Does it mention anything about Clarkson? I was not responding to any post directly that did make any correlation between McCartney and Clarkson



Regardless of the fact that Clarkson was coaching when they got Franklin and Roughead, the point is that the got it right which their drafting set them up for 3 flags over the following 10 year period

But Mike your forgetting they got agressive in there drafting before then. They traded Croad to Freo for 3 and 34 which nabbed Hodge and Mitchell. As a club, like it our not we would never do a trade like this. Ultimately this gutsy move at the time set them up. Our time is now yet we won't do a thing.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Regardless of the fact that Clarkson was coaching when they got Franklin and Roughead, the point is that the got it right which their drafting set them up for 3 flags over the following 10 year period

So obvious you agree its not about a headstart.
Its about getting the draft right. We obviously didn't do as well.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Looks like mattdougie and Ernie sigley will be sitting in a dark corner rocking back and forth knowing that macca is in charge for a while to come.

Been like that the last 3 years

 

[ErnieSigley]

Why wouldn't Garlick support Bmac, he is one of idiots that reappointed him pre-season. If Bmac goes so should Garlick.

 

[ErnieSigley]

So to those who are clearly unhappy with McCartney and want him gone now, you're going to have to endure another season before that's going to happen

So what, its just another wasted year, 61 and counting.

 

[Leon]

Nice to see this thread which I created going so strongly

*ducks for cover*

Anyway, my two cents.

I have reservations about McCartney still. He has had three years and we're still in the bottom four. Yes it's a big rebuild job he was given and he inherited a list that was badly out of shape but after three years we are still no where near it.

Regarding the players leaving, I have no sympathy for Jones who is a massive sook for leaving. He totally deserved the tough love that McCartney was giving him by banishing him to Footscray and the fact that he's thrown the toys out of the cot and asked to be traded because of it is pissweak from Jones. Totally backing Macca on this one, no problems.

Higgins I would prefer to have stayed but it's not a major disaster that he's going IMO. Too unreliable injury wise and form wise for anyone to have major concerns over him leaving. Not sure if Macca is a reason Higgins wants to go anyway, it may be so but there's no evidence that he is, if there is I'm yet to see it.

Tutt is the one I'd question Macca over leaving. The one thing amongst many that the side is lacking is pace and a good finisher. Tutt has both. Why hasn't he been played more? He may not have made it but at least give him a chance to show what he can do. Tutt didn't get played anywhere near as much as I'd have liked him to, especially when it is so obvious that we lack speed.

I also don't have a problem with the club telling senior players to pull their heads in if they're having a sook about Macca and backing him in (if this is the case). They need to grow up and deal with the fact that Macca is the coach and what he says, goes.

However at the same time that players deserve a kick up the arse and to get their act together, I say McCartney also does. If we don't improve next year, I'm not sure the club will want to back him in any more after four years in the bottom four. Coaches with much better records than Macca have been given the arse in shorter periods of time, this is fact.

So to summarise: Macca, coaching staff, all players - get your act together. This club needs some sort of hope.

 

[_Mike_]

So obvious you agree its not about a headstart.
Its about getting the draft right. We obviously didn't do as well.

Bingo.. Our poor drafting through the Clayton years is hurting us now

 

[_Mike_]

But Mike your forgetting they got agressive in there drafting before then. They traded Croad to Freo for 3 and 34 which nabbed Hodge and Mitchell. As a club, like it our not we would never do a trade like this. Ultimately this gutsy move at the time set them up. Our time is now yet we won't do a thing.

Yep, I covered the Croad trade in an earlier post

 

[King Harold]

Nice to see this thread which I created going so strongly

*ducks for cover*

Anyway, my two cents.

I have reservations about McCartney still. He has had three years and we're still in the bottom four. Yes it's a big rebuild job he was given and he inherited a list that was badly out of shape but after three years we are still no where near it.

Regarding the players leaving, I have no sympathy for Jones who is a massive sook for leaving. He totally deserved the tough love that McCartney was giving him by banishing him to Footscray and the fact that he's thrown the toys out of the cot and asked to be traded because of it is pissweak from Jones. Totally backing Macca on this one, no problems.

Higgins I would prefer to have stayed but it's not a major disaster that he's going IMO. Too unreliable injury wise and form wise for anyone to have major concerns over him leaving. Not sure if Macca is a reason Higgins wants to go anyway, it may be so but there's no evidence that he is, if there is I'm yet to see it.

Tutt is the one I'd question Macca over leaving. The one thing amongst many that the side is lacking is pace and a good finisher. Tutt has both. Why hasn't he been played more? He may not have made it but at least give him a chance to show what he can do. Tutt didn't get played anywhere near as much as I'd have liked him to, especially when it is so obvious that we lack speed.

I also don't have a problem with the club telling senior players to pull their heads in if they're having a sook about Macca and backing him in (if this is the case). They need to grow up and deal with the fact that Macca is the coach and what he says, goes.

However at the same time that players deserve a kick up the arse and to get their act together, I say McCartney also does. If we don't improve next year, I'm not sure the club will want to back him in any more after four years in the bottom four. Coaches with much better records than Macca have been given the arse in shorter periods of time, this is fact.

So to summarise: Macca, coaching staff, all players - get your act together. This club needs some sort of hope.

Not much to disagree about there Leon , except Tutt being a good finisher.
The one big problem for him was he was only a good finisher about 50% of the time.
Even at VFL level he had the same problems.
Nice technique , could kick a fair way , but invariably the kick didn't favour a team mate, or was just kicked in hope.
I contrast that to the 2 Hawthorn wingers Smith and Hill , both balanced and more times than not found a man.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Looks like mattdougie and Ernie sigley will be sitting in a dark corner rocking back and forth knowing that macca is in charge for a while to come.

That's all good and well but when we've gotten a 3-7 start to the year, say before our bye, and our three wins were not because of good tactics but our good players playing well in spite of those tactics, and papering over the cracks, I'm sure it will be all merry and we're 100% behind you - both fans and the board - then.

Comparing us to Port year 4, what a joke. We're more likely to win the spoon than make, and win a final like Port last year. I'll be happy to eat my words if we do.

 

[_Mike_]

That's all good and well but when we've gotten a 3-7 start to the year, say before our bye, and our three wins were not because of good tactics but our good players playing well in spite of those tactics, and papering over the cracks, I'm sure it will be all merry and we're 100% behind you - both fans and the board - then.

Rather brave to start talking about hypothetical starts to 2015 when we dont have a fixture yet?

 

[Tibes]

That's all good and well but when we've gotten a 3-7 start to the year, say before our bye, and our three wins were not because of good tactics but our good players playing well in spite of those tactics, and papering over the cracks, I'm sure it will be all merry and we're 100% behind you - both fans and the board - then.

Comparing us to Port year 4, what a joke. We're more likely to win the spoon than make, and win a final like Port last year. I'll be happy to eat my words if we do.

In fairness, although I don't really agree with the year 4 comparison, at the start of the last year Port weren't anywhere near consideration for making finals. They were also considered more likely to win the spoon than make, and win a final.

 

[Next Waiting]

Port finished 13th in 2008, the year after they'd made the GF. Arguably their rebuild began then. 2008, 09, 10, 11, 12 then came good in 2013, the sixth year. Arguably ours began in 2011. Arguably our 2014 is Port's 2011. We should come good (be playing finals) in 2016 which (along with a few others) I've maintained all year is about right. Demographically, we will be very similar to Port's 2013 team at that point. We need to trade in a quality KPD and KPF and draft/develop an elite half back to finish it off. The rest is there.

 

[lachy]

You like twisting things incorrectly to oppose what I say.
So you want the 3 years before Clarkson to include his first year?
We too had existing very good players easily comparable to pre Clarkson players
Take off Franklin, Lewis, Roughead and Croad (came back in Clarko's first year) your list
Wasn't Bmac allowed to recruit in his first year?

Name and compare them then Ernie. These player were picked up from 2001 to 2004, who did we pick up 2008 to 2011

You make bullshyte statements with nothing to support them

 

[lachy]

No sorry. You ain't too bright.
The argument was about when Clarkson started not prior. Neither prior mccartney.

Your seriously calling another poster not to bright???? You have to compare key players on the list when the coach comes in as those drafted take at least 2 years to become part of the key core. any other view is nonsensical

 

[ErnieSigley]

Wh

Name and compare them then Ernie. These player were picked up from 2001 to 2004, who did we pick up 2008 to 2011

You make bullshyte statements with nothing to support them

again! for the 10th time the 'headstart' that was mentioned was about the Clarkson recruits.

 

[lachy]

That's all good and well but when we've gotten a 3-7 start to the year, say before our bye, and our three wins were not because of good tactics but our good players playing well in spite of those tactics, and papering over the cracks, I'm sure it will be all merry and we're 100% behind you - both fans and the board - then.

Comparing us to Port year 4, what a joke. We're more likely to win the spoon than make, and win a final like Port last year. I'll be happy to eat my words if we do.

How many wins did Port have in 2011 and where did they come

 

[lachy]

Wh
for again the 10th time the 'headstart' that was mentioned was about the Clarkson recruits.

For the 200th time you make statements with nothing to support them. Who are the comparable very good players Macca had that Clarkson had? I have provided Clarksons, you have stated Macca had them to all I am asking is you to name them to provide any support to your comments