Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

[Mame]

What benefit does it hold for younger players with a style of kick it and hope?

It be counter productive for the development of our young players and delay the rebuild if they are being coached by a person who has no gamestyle.

Practise doesn't make perfect. Perfect practise makes perfect.

This is not a realistic description.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Yeah you are losing your patience though. I can wait.

How can we not? This is year 4. Don't use Malthouse as a template, NO coach gets a decade to try and win a flag. Malthouse holds the record for most years coached without a flag (17) and most year coached at one club without a flag (10).

Generally, if you're not at least showing signs of progress after 3 or 4, you're gone. Which is what amazes me with Hardwick. How that guy has flown under the radar for so long is bemusing. I believe this is year 6 or 7 for him and Richmond don't really look much closer to a flag than they did 2 years ago.

If we don't make finals this year or at least LOOK to be on the way, then Bucks should go. The young talent in our list is good. I truly believe that and we can't waste any more time on a coach who can't maximise that talent.

 

[Mame]

How can we not? This is year 4. Don't use Malthouse as a template, NO coach gets a decade to try and win a flag. Malthouse holds the record for most years coached without a flag (17) and most year coached at one club without a flag (10).

Generally, if you're not at least showing signs of progress after 3 or 4, you're gone. Which is what amazes me with Hardwick. How that guy has flown under the radar for so long is bemusing. I believe this is year 6 or 7 for him and Richmond don't really look much closer to a flag than they did 2 years ago.

If we don't make finals this year or at least LOOK to be on the way, then Bucks should go. The young talent in our list is good. I truly believe that and we can't waste any more time on a coach who can't maximise that talent.

This just aint the year though. We're obviously rebuilding so I'm happy to wait until we bottom out. If we start hovering around 9th year after year he goes lol.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

This just aint the year though. We're obviously rebuilding so I'm happy to wait until we bottom out. If we start hovering around 9th year after year he goes lol.

But we shouldn't be rebuilding the youngest premiership list in 30 years. Can't you see that? There should never have been a need for a rebuild. Hawthorn pinched the flag in 08, then missed finals in 09 due to injuries, but did you see them rebuild after that? No, they kept that list together and have now won 2 more flags since.

Again, our circumstance WERE unique. Very unique. But that doesn't excuse the lack of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Mame]

But we shouldn't be rebuilding the youngest premiership list in 30 years. Can't you see that? There should never have been a need for a rebuild. Hawthorn pinched the flag in 08, then missed finals in 09 due to injuries, but did you see them rebuild after that? No, they kept that list together and have now won 2 more flags since.

Again, our circumstance WERE unique. Very unique. But that doesn't excuse the lack of light at the end of the tunnel.

It does if you accept that we weren't ever as skilled as Hawthorn and won the flag by implementing a game plan which relies on boundary line stoppages, requiring relatively poor kicking skills and which was beaten by Geelong in 2011 and the Hawks every year since. Additionally, if you don't prescribe to the theory that a young premiership team equates to a dynasty. It is hard coming down from believing we were the best thing since sliced bread though.

 

[loki04]

That's just it, isn't it.

He is picking the scrub workhorse fumblers who will give 100% and compete mitigating dmg on the scoreboard and eeking out the odd wins here and there making us a midling team.

It's a lot easier to stomach the loss when you see glimpses of the future and kids to get excited about, all our talent biding time in the magoos.

I also think last years draft crop will turn out better then the previous 3 combined and would like to see the club expediate many of them through the seniors as long as they are have decent VFL form.

 

[Mugavin]

Shaw, Pendlebury, Beams, Reid, Sidebottom, Davis, Thomas, Wellingham and the like were all exceptional ball users. The history revisionism by Buckley lovers is distorted.

Buckley had Swan in his peak years, he was complimented by Pendlebury and then Beams. At that time, no side had 3 x League wide Top 10 mids who were delivering to an AA CHF/FF who smashed the record for most contested marks ever.

Shaw, Beams, Swan, Pendlebury & Cloke were all ranked as the No 1 in their position by effectiveness according to Champion Data in the 2012/13 period. If you can't succeed with almost a third of your side being the top one percentile, you are doing it wrong.

 

[Scodog10]

How can we not? This is year 4. Don't use Malthouse as a template, NO coach gets a decade to try and win a flag. Malthouse holds the record for most years coached without a flag (17) and most year coached at one club without a flag (10).

Generally, if you're not at least showing signs of progress after 3 or 4, you're gone. Which is what amazes me with Hardwick. How that guy has flown under the radar for so long is bemusing. I believe this is year 6 or 7 for him and Richmond don't really look much closer to a flag than they did 2 years ago.

If we don't make finals this year or at least LOOK to be on the way, then Bucks should go. The young talent in our list is good. I truly believe that and we can't waste any more time on a coach who can't maximise that talent.

Whilst I agree strongly with your argument the bolded is factually incorrect. Hardwick improved Richmond's win tally 4 years in succession which was no mean feat considering how putrid they were when he took charge.

 

[Mame]

That's just it, isn't it.

He is picking the scrub workhorse fumblers who will give 100% and compete mitigating dmg on the scoreboard and eeking out the odd wins here and there making us a midling team.

It's a lot easier to stomach the loss when you see glimpses of the future and kids to get excited about, all our talent biding time in the magoos.

I also think last years draft crop will turn out better then the previous 3 combined and would like to see the club expediate many of them through the seniors as long as they are have decent VFL form.

I'm incline to give a little leeway here as these decisions really do require inside knowledge. There has to be balance between rewarding good VFL form, carrying enough experience to support the kids and not creating another rat pack culture IMV. For instance, even though I don't think Dwyer is part of our future I wouldn't be upset if he were rewarded for his good VFL form in front of, say, Freeman or PK this week. That said I'd be fine with Moore getting a debut too.

Reality is we are fielding a young side though, with an average age of 24 yrs 3 mths. Seniors are required but I do get a bit frustrated with the battlers we have in the team. I believe it will get better when our quality youth come through and our injury profile is better. But yeah, 2016 is the year of improvement for mine.

 

[Mame]

Shaw, Pendlebury, Beams, Reid, Sidebottom, Davis, Thomas, Wellingham and the like were all exceptional ball users. The history revisionism by Buckley lovers is distorted.

Buckley had Swan in his peak years, he was complimented by Pendlebury and then Beams. At that time, no side had 3 x League wide Top 10 mids who were delivering to an AA CHF/FF who smashed the record for most contested marks ever.

Shaw, Beams, Swan, Pendlebury & Cloke were all ranked as the No 1 in their position by effectiveness according to Champion Data in the 2012/13 period. If you can't succeed with almost a third of your side being the top one percentile, you are doing it wrong.

Ouch! Now you've just reminded me how we lost the 2011 GF after our most successful H&A season with about 8 AAs running around.

 

[Old Spice]

But we shouldn't be rebuilding the youngest premiership list in 30 years. Can't you see that? There should never have been a need for a rebuild. Hawthorn pinched the flag in 08, then missed finals in 09 due to injuries, but did you see them rebuild after that? No, they kept that list together and have now won 2 more flags since.

Again, our circumstance WERE unique. Very unique. But that doesn't excuse the lack of light at the end of the tunnel.

What happened to the last youngest premiership list?

 

[Old Spice]

Shaw, Pendlebury, Beams, Reid, Sidebottom, Davis, Thomas, Wellingham and the like were all exceptional ball users. The history revisionism by Buckley lovers is distorted.

Buckley had Swan in his peak years, he was complimented by Pendlebury and then Beams. At that time, no side had 3 x League wide Top 10 mids who were delivering to an AA CHF/FF who smashed the record for most contested marks ever.

Shaw, Beams, Swan, Pendlebury & Cloke were all ranked as the No 1 in their position by effectiveness according to Champion Data in the 2012/13 period. If you can't succeed with almost a third of your side being the top one percentile, you are doing it wrong.

How can Pendlebury, Swan and Beams all be 'no.1' in their position when they are all mids? Top 1 percentile? Source?

 

[Mugavin]

Reality is we are fielding a young side though with an average age of 24 yrs 3 mths.

Adelaide were a class above us on Saturday.

Their average age was 24 years, 320 days. Ours was 24 years, 99 days.

The experience gap was 1723 games to us, 1728 to them.

Minimal differences for a team that looked a class above us.

 

[Old Spice]

Don't think you can state the loss of Thomas or Wellingham has been any great loss and Davis was at the end. The only player of super quality we've lost is Shaw and that was own goals.

People are judging the moves without the fullness of time. If Scharenberg proves a bust then fair enough but you can't set up one-sided tests with half the numbers missing and draw anything but a stupid conclusion.

 

[Old Spice]

Adelaide were a class above us on Saturday.

Their average age was 24 years, 320 days. Ours was 24 years, 99 days.

The experience gap was 1723 games to us, 1728 to them.

Minimal differences for a team that looked a class above us.

Look at the way that experience is spread.

 

[Maggie5]

Adelaide were a class above us on Saturday.
Their average age was 24 years, 320 days. Ours was 24 years, 99 days.
The experience gap was 1723 games to us, 1728 to them.
Minimal differences for a team that looked a class above us.

How many players in the 100 plus, 50 plus, 20-50 and under 20 games played from each team?

 

[Soaring Magpie]

we are really only 18 months into a rebuild , the hate for Buckley here is amazing. We have had the worst luck with injuries the last 2 years and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. Once we can get our 4 top 10 draft picks into the side and some games under their belt the improvement in the side will be rapid, Buckley can coach but he needs the talent to be able to string games together to showcase where he is taking us. Our two top ten picks from 2014 are the only players in the top 15 of that draft yet to play a senior game, that hurts!!

 

[Mame]

Adelaide were a class above us on Saturday.

Their average age was 24 years, 320 days. Ours was 24 years, 99 days.

The experience gap was 1723 games to us, 1728 to them.

Minimal differences for a team that looked a class above us.

They would be. We're missing Sidey and Greenwood who are our #2 and 3 mids. Plus their age distribution is far better.

 

[12kilos]

Totally agree with most of your thoughts. Buckley should be under the spot light this year. He should have never rebuild a young premieship list starting fom 2012.
No one questions his knowledge. However he seems to have difficulties in getting players to play for him.also has issues in teaching or nurturing youngsters. Which Clarkson is a master
at.
His strike rate in recycled players is crap.unlike Malthouse when he was at our club.
ex-players dont rate him as a coach. And i am not talking about Jolly.
He needs to get the flick this year if we dont make the 8.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Whilst I agree strongly with your argument the bolded is factually incorrect. Hardwick improved Richmond's win tally 4 years in succession which was no mean feat considering how putrid they were when he took charge.

Which is why I said generally. Yes they've shown some improvement, but only JUST scraping into (then losing) finals after 6 or 7 years doesn't scream "RENEW HIS CONTRACT ASAP!" to me.

 

[Mame]

Totally agree with most of your thoughts. Buckley should be under the spot light this year. He should have never rebuild a young premieship list starting fom 2012.
No one questions his knowledge. However he seems to have difficulties in getting players to play for him.also has issues in teaching or nurturing youngsters. Which Clarkson is a master
at.
His strike rate in recycled players is crap.unlike Malthouse when he was at our club.
ex-players dont rate him as a coach. And i am not talking about Jolly.
He needs to get the flick this year if we dont make the 8.

Hi Darren

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Adelaide were a class above us on Saturday.

Their average age was 24 years, 320 days. Ours was 24 years, 99 days.

The experience gap was 1723 games to us, 1728 to them.

Minimal differences for a team that looked a class above us.

This is being a little disingenuous though isn't it? Would Adelaide have as many under 22 players as we do? I'd assume Swan takes our average up a fair amount too. I haven't looked at it in detail to be able to tell for sure, this is off the top of my head. I'm fairly certain Adelaide has more players in that 23-27 bracket that you need to be a genuinely good side.

 

[Mame]

This is being a little disingenuous though isn't it? Would Adelaide have as many under 22 players as we do? I'd assume Swan takes our average up a fair amount too. I haven't looked at it in detail to be able to tell for sure, this is off the top of my head. I'm fairly certain Adelaide has more players in that 23-27 bracket that you need to be a genuinely good side.

Yeah most are in this bracket excluding players like Laird, Brown, EY, etc

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Yeah most are in this bracket excluding players like Laird, Brown, EY, etc

View attachment 124344

Well there you go, their ENTIRE TEAM is in the perfect age bracket for a premiership tilt. To say our average is the same is just being facetious. Given our whole list is basically 27 or over or 23 or under.

 

[Old Spice]

Totally agree with most of your thoughts. Buckley should be under the spot light this year. He should have never rebuild a young premieship list starting fom 2012.
No one questions his knowledge. However he seems to have difficulties in getting players to play for him.also has issues in teaching or nurturing youngsters. Which Clarkson is a master
at.
His strike rate in recycled players is crap.unlike Malthouse when he was at our club.
ex-players dont rate him as a coach. And i am not talking about Jolly.
He needs to get the flick this year if we dont make the 8.

Can't get players playing for him? Hasn't looked that way in first two rounds to me. Massive number of players with very little game experience, in fact half the team against the Crows had sub 50 games.

Oxley 4
Ramsay 4
Broomhead 9
Crisp 20
Langdon 21
Grundy 24
Frost 26
Seedsman 38
Williams 39
Adams 45
Sinclair 46

Don't bring up Malthouse as an example mate. Rattan was improving the list year on year and Carlton bought Malthouse in to finish the job. Look at them now, an absolute rabble and that's because Carlton had unrealistic expectations which Mick was happy to sell them, although he changes his tune about where they sit on a week by week basis.