List Mgmt. Blair Hartley Project 2015

[Frustrated Tiger]

Pretty confident it would work actually.

Plenty of quality, value etc...

Please don't turn us into a dumping ground for other club's shit again. ....
Kreuzer, broken down. ....pass....
Touhey? WTF?
Bartel? Why???

 

[Grockadoc]

Am I the only one who isn't completely sold on Shiel as a player?

I just think that for what he would want (500,000+), he isn't worth. In my opinion, you don't pay that much for players who are vanilla, in a sense. Shiel will be a good player, but he isn't worth the money that reportedly he is being offered from rival clubs. He is a strong player, footskills are neat without being great, defensively he is sound, offensively he is sound, but I just think that for that price, he doesn't do enough damage.

 

[Mr Magic]

Please don't turn us into a dumping ground for other club's shit again. ....
Kreuzer, broken down. ....pass....
Touhey? WTF?
Bartel? Why???

Bartel is all class and would be more of a coaching role.
Has more credients than anyone we have at Tigerland from a distant past.

Bartel takes us back to quality from the 1980's guys that knew what it took to win premierships with a passion for richmond in the contemporary format!

Krezeur has the class to. If he breaks down, let him go. With a reasonable contract for no more than 2 years initially he could be a steal. Fact is he is mates with Cotch, if they develop their ruck/rover chemistry as in the past and he recovers we are laughing. TV has shown next to nothing, Maric has only so many years left, Griff is a ruck Part timer and Hampson is your backup. SO there is your answer. If Kruzeur fails, get another ruck via FA in 2017 or 2018. No loss at all. If Kruezeur is ever going to make it back it would be next to his mate Cotch providing him guidance with a good communication support to draw on with the midfielders relying on him apart from any forward role

Touhy is probably better than any of our half backs at the moment. The fact he provides height, a good kick and kick for goal as well as a benchmark for Conca to actually perform or not is the answer. In particular Touhy can set fitness and gym standards for Conca to match because I believe they are a similar physical match in terms of body types. Furthermore, I see Conca playing a role in our defense as part of a rotation which Touhy could guide on as well. If you get him for a 3rd rounder or less he is value IMO because, at his age, he releases Vlastuin into the middle as well where we have issues still like with TV.

But Tuohy is like Bartel and Kruzeur , they do not cost the world if things go amiss like with Hunt and Miles!! They cost a bit, but relatively speaking not really expensive.

 

[Mr Magic]

Am I the only one who isn't completely sold on Shiel as a player?

I just think that for what he would want (500,000+), he isn't worth. In my opinion, you don't pay that much for players who are vanilla, in a sense. Shiel will be a good player, but he isn't worth the money that reportedly he is being offered from rival clubs. He is a strong player, footskills are neat without being great, defensively he is sound, offensively he is sound, but I just think that for that price, he doesn't do enough damage.

I would pay Shiel 500K before Yarran 200K simply because he has no flaws except to simply develop his game with experience

 

[Grockadoc]

I would pay Shiel 500K before Yarran 200K simply because he has no flaws except to simply develop his game with experience

Shiel, stats wise, is no different to Shaun Grigg. Would you be happy paying Grigg $500,000?

What I'm trying to say is you don't spend big money like that on Vanilla-ish players. There's a reason why players like Lids, Dusty, Dangerfield, Selwood, Sloane, Swan, Fyfe etc all earn big dollars. The reason being is they are damaging. Shiel, for all of his strengths, is not a damaging player.

Shiel is a rich man's Shaun Grigg.

 

[Mr Magic]

Shiel, stats wise, is no different to Shaun Grigg. Would you be happy paying Grigg $500,000?

What I'm trying to say is you don't spend big money like that on Vanilla-ish players. There's a reason why players like Lids, Dusty, Dangerfield, Selwood, Sloane, Swan, Fyfe etc all earn big dollars. The reason being is they are damaging. Shiel, for all of his strengths, is not a damaging player.

Shiel is a rich man's Shaun Grigg.

I do not regard Shiel as vanilla. See his goals earlier in the year, left and right foot? I rate Dunstall's opinion more than just about any other and he was salivating and fearing rivals airing the interest by promoting GWS to sign him up on the couch

Has pace, has power, has strength, he ticks most boxes and is built like a likely type He can play inside and is a goal kicker even when young. i was trying to find faults myself because I was initially hesitant about the Choco situation but at the end of the day could not really find any given his young age still

I was reservant about getting him due to the Choco factor in terms of conflict of interest, but reading a bit of online content about some relationship dynamics which may or may not be true about the situation, and the fact they are still together suggesting it must be reasonable strong and with substance at least to some degree, it might be better in the interest of all parties if Dylan comes to Tigerland.


Foley is cooked, Miles does not have pace, Dylan would automatically have a place in our side and he can only improve really. He complements Cotch to who does not have the same pace and most likely complement the other midfielder in the ruck/centre whoever that may be in terms of set-up

There are others like Treloar and WHE but I think for us now and for GWS, now and long-term, it might be the best fit. Treloar and WHE are apparently close and harder to replace for GWS. Like I said before GWS can target the likes of Hannebery later via FA and they still are very much building their team, developing their club and culture, and even future in terms of premiership playing mix, so I think, on reflection, it is probably the right way to go particularly given Shiel's improved form this year.

Shiel should supersede anything Foley put out even in his AA contention year. Potentially Shiel could be better than Weightman.

 

[Grockadoc]

I do not regard Shiel as vanilla. See his goals earlier in the year, left and right foot? I rate Dunstall's opinion more than just about any other and he was salivating and fearing rivals airing the interest by promoting GWS to sign him up on the couch

Has pace, has power, has strength, he ticks most boxes and is built like a likely type He can play inside and is a goal kicker even when young. i was trying to find faults myself because I was initially hesitant about the Choco situation but at the end of the day could not really find any given his young age still

I was reservant about getting him due to the Choco factor, but reading a bit of online content about some dynamics which may or may not be true about the situation, and the fact they are still together, it might be better in the interest of all parties if Dylan comes to Tigerland.


Foley is cooked, Miles does not have pace, Dylan would automatically have a place in our side and he can only improve really. He complements Cotch to who does not have the same pace and most likely complement the other midfielder in the ruck/centre whoever that may be in terms of set-up

There are others like Treloar and WHE but I think for us know and for GWS it might be the best fit. Treloar and WHE are apparently close and harder to replace for GWS. Like I said before GWS can target the likes of Hannebery later so I think, on reflection, it is probably the right way to go particularly given Shiel's improved form this year.

Shiel should supersede anything Foley put out even in his AA contention year

Don't get me wrong, I like Shiel as a player. For me, it all depends on what role they bring him in as. If it is as a pure inside midfielder, I'd be fine with it. He can rack up clearances. As an outside midfielder though, he doesn't hit the scoreboard regularly enough, or get enough possessions as an outside link up player.

I'm also not sure if we'd be better off getting Shiel, or Suckling as a HBF to release Vlastuin through the midfield. Suckling would be cheaper than Shiel.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

A rich man's Shaun Grigg would be an incredibly good player, so not sure what your argument is there.

And any player who is capable of taking the game on with three or four bounces and a 50m kick is a damaging player.

 

[tigertaskforce]

Don't get me wrong, I like Shiel as a player. For me, it all depends on what role they bring him in as. If it is as a pure inside midfielder, I'd be fine with it. He can rack up clearances. As an outside midfielder though, he doesn't hit the scoreboard regularly enough, or get enough possessions as an outside link up player.

I'm also not sure if we'd be better off getting Shiel, or Suckling as a HBF to release Vlastuin through the midfield. Suckling would be cheaper than Shiel.

inside mid ? just read on drafts and trading board t mitch could prob be had for a 2nd round pic id do that in a heartbeat

 

[Mr Magic]

Don't get me wrong, I like Shiel as a player. For me, it all depends on what role they bring him in as. If it is as a pure inside midfielder, I'd be fine with it. He can rack up clearances. As an outside midfielder though, he doesn't hit the scoreboard regularly enough, or get enough possessions as an outside link up player.

I'm also not sure if we'd be better off getting Shiel, or Suckling as a HBF to release Vlastuin through the midfield. Suckling would be cheaper than Shiel.

Okay, Shiel is not an outside midfielder to be most effective IMO. That is plain and simple although he probably could play outside. In our GF team Shiel would not be playing outside midfielder though if we are trying to win premierships!

If we got him he would be roving and resting forward. Players of this quality do not park in back lines!

Shiel is 182cm, Suckling is a 187cm left footer half back. They have nothing to do with each other and you could get both. Suckling and Shiel are not mutually exclusive.

Suckling probably too expensive prying away from Hawthorn in 2016 anyway.

Remember if Suckling is off Hawthorn's books it helps them target other players as well which may not be in our interest. Ideally, we might like to get Suckling not in 2016 but a little later after he has won a few more premierships at Hawthorn.

The main thing is we would not be getting Shiel because of the Choco situation, but because he was a wanted deserved high-end footy player in the view of the whole football department of the RFC. The point is Dylan has got enough yards under his belt that any perception of conflict should not be an issues because, if he is not a gun yet, he is not far off and heading in the right direction so Dylan can stand on his own two feet with respect at the RFC with or without Choco if he arrived as a player.

 

[bananatigz]

Am I the only one who isn't completely sold on Shiel as a player?

I just think that for what he would want (500,000+), he isn't worth. In my opinion, you don't pay that much for players who are vanilla, in a sense. Shiel will be a good player, but he isn't worth the money that reportedly he is being offered from rival clubs. He is a strong player, footskills are neat without being great, defensively he is sound, offensively he is sound, but I just think that for that price, he doesn't do enough damage.

I'd rather Hanners

 

[Grockadoc]

Okay, Shiel is not an outside midfielder. That is plan and simple although he probably could play there. In our GF team Shiel would not be playing outside midfielder though if we are trying to win premierships!

If we got him he would be roving and resting forward. Players of this quality do not park in back lines!

Shiel is 182cm, Suckling is a 187cm left footer half back. They have nothing to do with each other and you could get both. Suckling and Shiel are not mutually exclusive.

Suckling probably too expensive prying away from Hawthorn in 2016 anyway.

Remember if Suckling is off Hawthorn's books it helps them target other players as well which may not be in our interest. Ideally, we might like to get Suckling not in 2016 but a little later after he has won a few more premierships at Hawthorn.

Shiel is not a free agent. We'd have to give something up for him. GWS would probably want our first rounder. Something I would be quite unwilling to part with, as I'm of the mindset you shouldn't trade first rounders (Unless it is for a genuinely fantastic player). Suckling, on the other hand is a Free Agent, so we either force Hawthorn to pay more to keep him by having them match our offer, or he comes to us, and no picks have been exchanged. Targeting Suckling, at this stage is a safer option than Shiel, in my opinion.

 

[copthat]

Don't get me wrong, I like Shiel as a player. For me, it all depends on what role they bring him in as. If it is as a pure inside midfielder, I'd be fine with it. He can rack up clearances. As an outside midfielder though, he doesn't hit the scoreboard regularly enough, or get enough possessions as an outside link up player.

I'm also not sure if we'd be better off getting Shiel, or Suckling as a HBF to release Vlastuin through the midfield. Suckling would be cheaper than Shiel.

We need to stop acquiring role players. Quality is what we need. Shiel is quality. Hawthorn just quietly keep acquiring guns. Burgoyne, Gibson, McEvoy, Frawley and O'Rourke if he comes on are all guns. They were into O'Keefe a few years ago when he was a jet.

Suckling is horrendously overrated anyway. An overrated kick and zero defensive game. We'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul by pushing out Vlastuin from the same position.

 

[THE_GUN]

Shiel is not a free agent. We'd have to give something up for him. GWS would probably want our first rounder. Something I would be quite unwilling to part with, as I'm of the mindset you shouldn't trade first rounders (Unless it is for a genuinely fantastic player). Suckling, on the other hand is a Free Agent, so we either force Hawthorn to pay more to keep him by having them match our offer, or he comes to us, and no picks have been exchanged. Targeting Suckling, at this stage is a safer option than Shiel, in my opinion.

We will probably have a pick between 12-16 this year and there are no guarantee's you will get 'Elite' Player at that selection

I would be more than happy for our 1st selection to be traded for a 23 yo Dylan Shiel -No brainer

 

[Grockadoc]

We need to stop acquiring role players. Quality is what we need. Shiel is quality. Hawthorn just quietly keep acquiring guns. Burgoyne, Gibson, McEvoy, Frawley and O'Rourke if he comes on are all guns. They were into O'Keefe a few years ago when he was a jet.

Suckling is horrendously overrated anyway. An overrated kick and zero defensive game. We'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul by pushing out Vlastuin from the same position.

At what price are we paying Shiel though? If the rumours of 500-550,000 are accurate, I'd rather look at Tom Mitchell.

 

[copthat]

At what price are we paying Shiel though? If the rumours of 500-550,000 are accurate, I'd rather look at Tom Mitchell.

I've got no idea and I don't like when wages are brought into it because who honestly knows what anyone is being payed? I trust RFC to pay them what they are worth because in Dimma's reign no one of quality has been forced out.

 

[Mr Magic]

At what price are we paying Shiel though? If the rumours of 500-550,000 are accurate, I'd rather look at Tom Mitchell.

Out of curiosity, if we got Suckling as you suggested, what do you think we would/should pay him salary wise?

 

[Mr Magic]

We will probably have a pick between 12-16 this year and there are no guarantee's you will get 'Elite' Player at that selection

I would be more than happy for our 1st selection to be traded for a 23 yo Dylan Shiel -No brainer

It is early, but I have looked at the various phantom drafts for the 2015 draft in terms of the general types. Given where we are at towards our window, and everyone knows how much I love to normally bang on about draft picks I think, without taking it lightly, in this case, in this year, it is probably smarter for RFC to actually get Shiel. I am considering other options for our other requirements down the track and alternative options for these requirements as we progress towards our final list capable of challenging for a premiership as part of this determination.

If we did get Shiel it would have follow on effects down the track as well IMO that benefit RFC. So although I was against it initially, I am for it now and consider it a far better option than other expensive FA options this year. The fact Shiel would be a good fit for RFC and what it needs in our premiership team had a strong influence in my decision particularly the role he can play for the team and the great contribution he can make for us.

 

[THE_GUN]

It is early, but I have looked at the various phantom drafts for the 2015 draft in terms of the general types. Given where we are at towards our window, and everyone knows how much I love to normally bang on about draft picks I think, without taking it lightly, in this case, in this year, it is probably smarter for RFC to actually get Shiel. I am considering other options for our other requirements down the track and alternative options for these requirements as we progress towards our final list capable of challenging for a premiership as part of this determination.

If we did get Shiel it would have follow on effects down the track as well IMO that benefit RFC. So although I was against it initially, I am for it now and consider it a far better option than other expensive FA options this year. The fact Shiel would be a good fit for RFC and what it needs in our premiership team had a strong influence in my decision particularly the role he can play for the team and the great contribution he can make for us.

I am also for maintaining our draft picks but we have a young list once you take out the older players who i believe are not integral to our team going foward and the players im talking about are Knights,Hampson,Foley,Newman,Thomas,Chaplin which leaves Delidio as our oldest integral player

I have also mentioned on many occasions that i believe our foward line and backs are good enough to be top 4 and challenging for a flag but our weak area is our midfield as it doesnt run deep enough with A grade to Elite mids and we are 2 A graders short and need to bring them in whilst we are on the fringe
some say that the juniors could become that but our window will be 2016-2020/21 and have to strike now to get these "2 elite/A grade mids into our team

Shiel/Hannerbery/Dangerfield/Prestia/Shuey/Aish/Sloan/WHE etc are the players that are young enough and are good enough to get us to the next level
Hawthorn are the perfect example of a team that knows what they need and are prepared to pay up same as Sydney

We now have to start really opening up the cheque book and getting these players to the club now that all but 1 of our most important players have been signed up. sure we will lose 1 or maybe 2 players along the way but we will maintain and keep the integral players at the club as they have just about all signed up

 

[bananatigz]

I'd go:
Vickery > Yarran
1st pick > Hannebery
FA: Kreuzer

Yarran is someone i'd love to have in our side partnering Houli, if you tag one the other gets off the chain, would be a huge weapon for us. Probably has the same market value as Vickery which might sound silly but with how much talls are worth and spuds like Stanley going for pick 21 it might not be too far off the mark.
Hannebery is a tad underrated I reckon for a bloke who should have won a Norm Smith and is only 24, just 2 years older than Shiel. I think he's easily a better player at the moment and Shiel will have to be bloody good to go past him at all. I'm sure the club would be all over his off-field behaviour and if its deemed not an issue i'd love to see us have a real crack at him, for some reason I think we could get him for less than Shiel, although we may need to chuck in something else alongside our first pick
Think we could get Kreuzer on the cheap given his injury troubles, and his potential upside if we can get him right is enormous. At worst he is excellent depth for Maric who might not go on for too much longer but he's also a competent forward so you could try the 3 talls again, certainly doable a lot of teams run with it

Think that's certainly doable from a money perspective, when you factor in the "war chest" along with Vickery and Conca and guys like Newman, Foley and Knights all probably in their last year. Would certainly improve our best 22, imagine running out round 1 2016 with a team like this:

B: Batchelor, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Yarran
C: Ellis, Cotchin, Vlastuin
HF: Martin, Griffiths, Deledio
F: Edwards, Reiwoldt, Kreuzer
R: Maric, Miles, Hannebery
I: Lennon, McIntosh, Conca, C.Ellis

 

[DrMike]

Am I the only one who isn't completely sold on Shiel as a player?

I just think that for what he would want (500,000+), he isn't worth. In my opinion, you don't pay that much for players who are vanilla, in a sense. Shiel will be a good player, but he isn't worth the money that reportedly he is being offered from rival clubs. He is a strong player, footskills are neat without being great, defensively he is sound, offensively he is sound, but I just think that for that price, he doesn't do enough damage.

We need someone of his calibre. Desperately crying out for another quality inside mid. He's worth it.

 

[DrMike]

Don't get me wrong, I like Shiel as a player. For me, it all depends on what role they bring him in as. If it is as a pure inside midfielder, I'd be fine with it. He can rack up clearances. As an outside midfielder though, he doesn't hit the scoreboard regularly enough, or get enough possessions as an outside link up player.

I'm also not sure if we'd be better off getting Shiel, or Suckling as a HBF to release Vlastuin through the midfield. Suckling would be cheaper than Shiel.

You also have to remember the team he's playing with and that he's getting tagged now. Swap Cotchin with him in GWS and we'd probably be saying the same about Cotchin. The movement in traffic Shield showed the other week was sublime.

 

[Mr Magic]

I'd go:
Vickery > Yarran
1st pick > Hannebery
FA: Kreuzer

Yarran is someone i'd love to have in our side partnering Houli, if you tag one the other gets off the chain, would be a huge weapon for us. Probably has the same market value as Vickery which might sound silly but with how much talls are worth and spuds like Stanley going for pick 21 it might not be too far off the mark.
Hannebery is a tad underrated I reckon for a bloke who should have won a Norm Smith and is only 24, just 2 years older than Shiel. I think he's easily a better player at the moment and Shiel will have to be bloody good to go past him at all. I'm sure the club would be all over his off-field behaviour and if its deemed not an issue i'd love to see us have a real crack at him, for some reason I think we could get him for less than Shiel, although we may need to chuck in something else alongside our first pick
Think we could get Kreuzer on the cheap given his injury troubles, and his potential upside if we can get him right is enormous. At worst he is excellent depth for Maric who might not go on for too much longer but he's also a competent forward so you could try the 3 talls again, certainly doable a lot of teams run with it

Think that's certainly doable from a money perspective, when you factor in the "war chest" along with Vickery and Conca and guys like Newman, Foley and Knights all probably in their last year. Would certainly improve our best 22, imagine running out round 1 2016 with a team like this:

B: Batchelor, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Yarran
C: Ellis, Cotchin, Vlastuin
HF: Martin, Griffiths, Deledio
F: Edwards, Reiwoldt, Kreuzer
R: Maric, Miles, Hannebery
I: Lennon, McIntosh, Conca, C.Ellis

Don't mind the direction but couple of points if I may. Hannerbery is FA in 2016 so why cough up a first rounder this year? Better than Hampson but similar as to what happened before when we could have got him following year via FA.

You may say well, why cough up for Shiel? Well the difference with Shiel is he is 2 years younger, but he is 2 years younger in terms of our windows as well. For me our windows run along with Martin and Griffths IMO as a central point. You may say Hannebery same year. True, but with a younger Shiel arguably an older Martin eg. 30+ can still be effective with younger quality like Shiel driving us forward. Bit like Selwood with Johnson/Bartel etc.. in their last premiership. Furthermore, it may be harder than one thinks getting Hannebery and what if Shiel is better and more available? Swans are in contender mode so not easy to prior Hannebery away even if they are chasing pick(s) for Mills.

The other thing is Hannebery arguably has done harder yards with Swans contested style, he may not have the life of a Shiel and be stopped like a Judd or Voss due to the hardness of his contested footy while young


The other thing is Vlastuin is not a good option for wing. Lacks the run, speed and coverage atm and frankly McIntosh is a far better option. Part of the reason I do not feel Yarran suits us. Furthermore with Houli and Yarran where is our defensive hardness?

 

[Dustin Credible]

Just out of interest if Foley/Knights and Newman were all to retire at the end of the year how much cap space would that free up?

Would've thought it would be a decent amount...

With the supposed 'war chest' could have a strong hand for FA

 

[pebblestone]

Just out of interest if Foley/Knights and Newman were all to retire at the end of the year how much cap space would that free up?

Would've thought it would be a decent amount...

With the supposed 'war chest' could have a strong hand for FA

You'd have to think around a million a year, less the 2 draftees that come in, so let's say 800k. Could get just about anyone for that.