List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2015

[Crazy Tails]

Witts wasn't dropped for inconsistency. He was dropped because our match committee finally worked out that playing two first rucks isn't good for team balance.

I was interested to hear comments from Trav Cloke the other day (on radio I think) when he said that the club weren't happy with how the two man ruck combo was working. Writing on the wall for big Wittsy? I do think Grundy plays a lot better as the solo #1 guy but it would be very risky to go in with no decent back up (Cox is still a fair way off). We might have to take a punt if we need the picks. Maybe we could land a mature ager a la Ben Hudson in the rookie draft as insurance.

 

[neilk]

Is there anyway we could we do this? Scharenberg and first round pick (in top 10) for Danger. Trade Witts to Bulldogs for their first rounder and give that and next year's first rounder for Treloar. Seedsman and 2nd rounder to Lions for Aish. Front end one contract and back end the other. Do we have the $$ after losing Beams. Reid and Cloke could be on lesser contracts soon. And Swan will prob only play for 1 or 2 more seasons. Can Matt rendell and Hine pull off this deal of the decade??

Why are we trading for Dangerfield as he is an RFA?

 

[Reinhardt]

Cap space won't be an issue, and I'm not sure how you could possibly think that Aish could command $550k per year after a solid first year and less than stellar second.

As for what the clubs will command at the draft table, what they want and what they get are two very different things. Treloar is not yet up to the same standard as Beams, and is not contracted. They will ask for two first round picks but it's highly unlikely that they will get them, just like it was highly unlikely that Collingwood were going to get pick 5 and Aish last year. A first, second, and maybe a sweetener somewhere will get the trade done.

Aish would require a mid first rounder by itself. Failing that, a second rounder and a player they have their eye on, like Seedsman, should get the job done too, should he nominate Collingwood as his destination.

It's cute that you're calling Witts a fringe player. There have been some reports that the Dogs are offering him a 4 year deal. I kind of hope it's true, just to piss you off.

He would command it because clubs are prepared to pay it. He's the most hyped prospect from South Australia for a long time.

Treloar very much is up to the same standard as Beams by virtue of what he's being offered. If he's being offered 800k over 7 years by Richmond, then he's not going for anything less than 2 first rounders.

Witts is a fringe player and it's not up for debate; anyone who doesn't have a cemented spot in the side is by definition a fringe player. I can give you a 100% guarantee he won't end up at the Dogs next year.

 

[Reinhardt]

You say Witts is a fringe player yet Aish is worth a shit load. you honestly can't see how this is trolling? Also if both players nominate us I think you'll find it will make it pretty easy to get deals done.

Justin Sherman and Andrew Walker both nominated us 5 years ago but we could only land one. With players as in-demand and valuable as Aish and Treloar are, chances are it'll be about 10 times harder to land both.

and again, Witts is a fringe player by virtue of not being a lock-in starter. Don't know how you can deny this.

 

[nahnah]

He would command it because clubs are prepared to pay it. He's the most hyped prospect from South Australia for a long time.

Treloar very much is up to the same standard as Beams by virtue of what he's being offered. If he's being offered 800k over 7 years by Richmond, then he's not going for anything less than 2 first rounders.

Witts is a fringe player and it's not up for debate; anyone who doesn't have a cemented spot in the side is by definition a fringe player. I can give you a 100% guarantee he won't end up at the Dogs next year.

Why isn't Aish a fringe player then you troll lol he's played the same amount of games as witts but in a shitter team

 

[4#Didak#4]

Supply and demand can waver easily. Brodie Grundy was touted to go in the top 3 of his draft year, and you got him at pick 18.

Witts is 23 years old this year and is still getting dropped for inconsistency (and presumably, a lack of mobility). Sorry, but history would suggest players like that rarely go for anything more than a second rounder.

Warnock, Wood, Longer for starters and I haven't even started thinking about it.

But just to ram home the point, Rhys Stanley went for a first rounder last year. Case closed.

If we put Witts on the open market I have no doubt we would get a late first rounder, in fact the dogs would probably be first in line. But I would tell them all to go away as I wouldn't want a random late first round pick as we actually do need the ruck depth more than a dirty pick. However when Treloar is in the conversation it changes things.

 

[unplugged]

Hypothetically, let's say we finish around 10th both this year and next year (hopefully better, but let's keep it this way for this hypothetical scenario).

This would have us net picks ~8 and 26 in both this year's and next year's National Drafts.

Let's add to the theory that GWS might finish around 8th in both 2015 and 2016 and have picks to the approximate level of 10 and 28 in the same drafts.

With Treloar, I would propose that we give GWS pick 8 in this year's draft. If this isn't good enough alone, I would then swap our pick 8 (2016 draft) for their Pick 28 (2016 draft). You obviously run the risk of us underperforming or them overperforming, but the reward of netting Treloar is probably worth the movement of a few picks.

This way, instead of only having one pick (Pick 26) in the first 2 rounds of 2016, we would have picks 26 and 28. You could either take 2 players with these picks or try and bundle them together to get back into the first round. Obviously this would depend on the strength of the draft and how many players we needed to add.

I would also say we offer up Pick 28 (2015 draft) and a player for Aish. Usually you hear Hine saying "Player X or Player Y was Pick Z and is performing lower/equal/above this pick." You could argue that Aish was Pick 7 and is performing below this pick, as, injuries aside, he was not necessary holding his spot in a team who has finished bottom of the table two years in a row, and so on. We can all take guesses that the player might be a Seedsman, Oxley, Kennedy type player.

 

[Apex36]

He would command it because clubs are prepared to pay it. He's the most hyped prospect from South Australia for a long time.

No he isn't. That mantle went to Scharenberg, who was described by Mark Williams as the best schoolboy footballer he'd seen since Wayne Carey.

Treloar very much is up to the same standard as Beams by virtue of what he's being offered. If he's being offered 800k over 7 years by Richmond, then he's not going for anything less than 2 first rounders.

Provide a link to that offer please. All I've seen is $700k over 7 as opposed to Collingwoods $750k over 5.

Witts is a fringe player and it's not up for debate; anyone who doesn't have a cemented spot in the side is by definition a fringe player. I can give you a 100% guarantee he won't end up at the Dogs next year.

By that logic Aish is only a fringe player and not worth a first round pick. You're not very good at this.

 

[Reinhardt]

Why isn't Aish a fringe player then you troll lol he's played the same amount of games as witts but in a shitter team

Because he's 3 years younger, far more talented, far more hyped and a lot of the games he's missed have been through injury.

Warnock, Wood, Longer for starters and I haven't even started thinking about it.

But just to ram home the point, Rhys Stanley went for a first rounder last year. Case closed.

If we put Witts on the open market I have no doubt we would get a late first rounder, in fact the dogs would probably be first in line. But I would tell them all to go away as I wouldn't want a random late first round pick as we actually do need the ruck depth more than a dirty pick. However when Treloar is in the conversation it changes things.

Warnock was a second rounder, Wood and Longer were first rounders who were in their second year. Rhys Stanley isn't so much a ruckman as he is a swingman; he also has freak athleticism, which Witts doesn't have.

Also, again, I guarantee you the Dogs wouldn't trade any live picks for Witts. Literally a 0% chance. You can continue having no doubt, but let's see what happens in October.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I don't think GWS will want Witts-not because he's a fringe player-but more as to their need of KPD's.
I think if we traded Frost and Our first rounder that should be adequate.

Aish, I'm not too sure about. Seedsman and White? That's probably overs really. But it does fill their need of a KPF.

But if we trade white and Seedsman, we are gonna have to chase some speed and another KPF. That's a bit hard when you probably don't have first and second round draft picks.

 

[unplugged]

Because he's 3 years younger, far more talented, far more hyped and a lot of the games he's missed have been through injury.


Warnock was a second rounder, Wood and Longer were first rounders who were in their second year. Rhys Stanley isn't so much a ruckman as he is a swingman; he also has freak athleticism, which Witts doesn't have.

Also, again, I guarantee you the Dogs wouldn't trade any live picks for Witts. Literally a 0% chance. You can continue having no doubt, but let's see what happens in October.

So, you don't want a ruckman? Despite it being your biggest need.

 

[ThePhantom777]

Why are we trading for Dangerfield as he is an RFA?

Sorry, it's assuming we make an offer, they match and it becomes a trade situation.

I doubt we could get Danger, Treloar and Aish though. There is some talk of Hawthorn getting Danger.

 

[Reinhardt]

No he isn't. That mantle went to Scharenberg, who was described by Mark Williams as the best schoolboy footballer he'd seen since Wayne Carey.


Provide a link to that offer please. All I've seen is $700k over 7 as opposed to Collingwoods $750k over 5.


By that logic Aish is only a fringe player and not worth a first round pick. You're not very good at this.

Mark Williams doesn't decide who the most hyped prospect from SA is. Aish is SANFL royalty and was touted a potential #1 pick in the 2 years leading up to that draft.

As for the links:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...leave-for-victorian-club-20150723-gij9i3.html
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-long-term-deals/story-fni5f7qp-1227430948775

Not sure where I heard 7 years, but those articles confirm North and Richmond are offering better contracts and the potential of 800k per year. Also, while we're on the Herald Sun:

The Herald Sun has confirmed the Pies will not put up young ruckman Jarrod Witts as trade bait to secure Treloar.

As for the bottom paragraph, refer to my previous post.

 

[Pendles!]

Right, because what the tabloids say is always right?

Also, they're saying you're interested in both. To actually land both is a completely different kettle of fish.


About $1.3 million of salary cap space over 5+ years.

GWS won't trade Treloar for anything less than 2 first rounders, or a a player with genuine value. Jarrod Witts is a fringe player; to other clubs, he's not worth anything more than a third rounder, or maybe a very late second for clubs desperate for a ruckman. He will not be a factor in a deal for one of the most valuable players in the competition.

Aish will cost a first rounder at the very least. Second Rounder + Seedsman isn't an option.

How do you come to that figure?

Treloar won't cost two first rounders, it'll be first and second. Aish is the difficult one, it's unlikely it happens but if he does nominate us then the deal will go through.

Witts third rounder? Interesting that your club has offered him 4 years at 450k a year, that's worth more than a third rounder champ. Either way won't be traded.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Would think that getting Aish and Treloar is done. Ultimately if we had to do go to the max the below is what we could do which supect everyone would be ok with albeit given Lions look like 'dills' for letting Crisp go they will make us pay.


Collingwood > Treloar & Aish
GWS > Pick 8 and 25 from 2015 NAB AFL Draft
Lions > Collingwood 2nd round selection 2016 NAB AFL Draft plus Paul Seedsman

I would like to think we could do a bit better than that but if that is what it came to so be it. Clearly Witts could be a part of the deal to GWS but I think they will back in Lobb and Co the more I think about it. WB keeps coming up and thats a possibility and I'd be ok with it but I do think he is worth more than Aish.

Also worth thinking about what else could we get from GWS to sweeten our end up. They need to cut players and will have a few on the table would think.

 

[Reinhardt]

So, you don't want a ruckman? Despite it being your biggest need.

Mobile Ruckman.

If we simply needed a ruckman, we'd be playing Minson right now. We've been playing guys like Bontempelli and Jong in the ruck over him for a reason; it's been well documented that our coach wants as much mobility through the middle as he can get. There's literally a 0% chance of us going for Witts when we already have Campbell.

Not sure why you want to discuss the Bulldogs on you're own board though.

How do you come to that figure?

Treloar won't cost two first rounders, it'll be first and second. Aish is the difficult one, it's unlikely it happens but if he does nominate us then the deal will go through.

Witts third rounder? Interesting that your club has offered him 4 years at 450k a year, that's worth more than a third rounder champ. Either way won't be traded.

Based on what, precisely? History would disagree with your assessment as it is.

As for Witts, I suppose you believe every rumour that gets churned out?

 

[good4footy]

Mark Williams doesn't decide who the most hyped prospect from SA is.

Bwahahahaha- someone within a club does not decide the worth of a player but journalist and some key board worrier does.

Maybe people would be more interested on discussing this issue with you based on the facts rather than the facts you make up.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Seedsman could end up at the Swans.... Keep an eye on it.

I don't care if he ends up in the IT Department at JB Hifi Brighton, as long as he's not getting games at Collingwood I'm happy.

 

[unplugged]

Also worth thinking about what else could we get from GWS to sweeten our end up. They need to cut players and will have a few on the table would think.

I reckon if there are any trade scenarios thrown up that favour GWS, we'd do no wrong in asking for Hampton.

 

[nahnah]

Because he's 3 years younger, far more talented, far more hyped and a lot of the games he's missed have been through injury.


Warnock was a second rounder, Wood and Longer were first rounders who were in their second year. Rhys Stanley isn't so much a ruckman as he is a swingman; he also has freak athleticism, which Witts doesn't have.

Also, again, I guarantee you the Dogs wouldn't trade any live picks for Witts. Literally a 0% chance. You can continue having no doubt, but let's see what happens in October.

Witts didn't have a preseason and missed the first 5 rounds. Try again troll

 

[good4footy]

Bwahahahaha

This guy os hilarious. Someone within a football department in a club does not decide the worth of a player but journalists and key board heroes do.

 

[Reinhardt]

Would think that getting Aish and Treloar is done. Ultimately if we had to do go to the max the below is what we could do which supect everyone would be ok with albeit given Lions look like 'dills' for letting Crisp go they will make us pay.


Collingwood > Treloar & Aish
GWS > Pick 8 and 25 from 2015 NAB AFL Draft
Lions > Collingwood 2nd round selection 2016 NAB AFL Draft plus Paul Seedsman

I would like to think we could do a bit better than that but if that is what it came to so be it. Clearly Witts could be a part of the deal to GWS but I think they will back in Lobb and Co the more I think about it. WB keeps coming up and thats a possibility and I'd be ok with it but I do think he is worth more than Aish.

Also worth thinking about what else could we get from GWS to sweeten our end up. They need to cut players and will have a few on the table would think.

Bookmark this post: I will buy a premium collingwood membership if that happens.

It won't.

 

[danielnajdek]

Bookmark this post: I will buy a premium collingwood membership if that happens.

It won't.

I so hope it does now.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I was interested to hear comments from Trav Cloke the other day (on radio I think) when he said that the club weren't happy with how the two man ruck combo was working. Writing on the wall for big Wittsy? I do think Grundy plays a lot better as the solo #1 guy but it would be very risky to go in with no decent back up (Cox is still a fair way off). We might have to take a punt if we need the picks. Maybe we could land a mature ager a la Ben Hudson in the rookie draft as insurance.

In all fairness to Witts, he plays much better as a solo ruck as well.

Witts would actually be ahead in the pecking order if he had any semblence of a clue on how to use his height and weight. Grundy isn't ahead because of his tap work I can assure you of that. It's Grundy's ground level work that has him in front of Witts. That's it. They're both equally ineffective as forward options.

 

[Apex36]

Mark Williams doesn't decide who the most hyped prospect from SA is. Aish is SANFL royalty and was touted a potential #1 pick in the 2 years leading up to that draft.

As for the links:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...leave-for-victorian-club-20150723-gij9i3.html
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-long-term-deals/story-fni5f7qp-1227430948775

Not sure where I heard 7 years, but those articles confirm North and Richmond are offering better contracts and the potential of 800k per year. Also, while we're on the Herald Sun:


As for the bottom paragraph, refer to my previous post.

You realise that multiple recruiters had Berg ahead of Boyd as the numer 1 in his draft year had he not had his feet issues right? No probably not.

And lol at the old SA royalty line. Because riding on the coat tails of his dad and uncle automatically made him a better player, right? Don't get me wrong, Aish is quality, but there was no more hype surrounding him as a player than Scharenberg, just his family in general.

It's cute that you've come on our board to tell us all how wrong we are, but seriously, give it a rest. This is almost as embarrassing as the guy on the trade & draft board who is insisting that Treloar is worth no less than 3 first round picks, despite no player in history ever being traded for that much.