2015 Draft Discussion

[BlackGun1]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-30/highlyrated-pair-nominated-as-academy-picks-for-draft

No Buzza on that list.

Interested to see if Nick Weller can get offered a rookie spot. I think he's extremely underrated. I know Quigley is a big wrap for him

 

[BlackGun1]

Who is Nick Weller? Haven't heard him mentioned in any academy conversations?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Medium On-ball/utility type. Played a bit of footy as a junior but played Rugby and focused on track and field for most of his development years. Very quick and quite strong, skills are a bit hit-and-miss but he really hasn't been in the system for that long. Probably a bit too short to ever have a huge impact at AFL level (for his position and skillset) but he is more than certainly worth a chance on our Rookie List.

 

[captainrich]

Medium On-ball/utility type. Played a bit of footy as a junior but played Rugby and focused on track and field for most of his development years. Very quick and quite strong, skills are a bit hit-and-miss but he really hasn't been in the system for that long. Probably a bit too short to ever have a huge impact at AFL level (for his position and skillset) but he is more than certainly worth a chance on our Rookie List.

if he is too short to have ever have an impact at AFL level than why is he worth a chance on the rookie list?

 

[baaaall!]

Bit of a hypothetical situation here:

Lets say that we get picks 2 and 3,
and that Dangerfield nominates for the national draft. (Both somewhat unlikely)

Obviously we take Schache at 2, but who do we take at 3?
Danger? Francis? Someone else?

Interested to here your opinions.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Bit of a hypothetical situation here:

Lets say that we get picks 2 and 3,
and that Dangerfield nominates for the national draft. (Both somewhat unlikely)

Obviously we take Schache at 2, but who do we take at 3?
Danger? Francis? Someone else?

Interested to here your opinions.

Well if we got a Band 1 compo for Leuey which won't be happening I think we'd take Francis. Dangerfield not getting traded to Geelong is about as likely as us getting band 1 compo for Leuey. It just won't happen.

 

[Old Den]

Yes, however we will have Aish and Redden and Leuy picks to use too.

But will we? - and what will we use for trade period and still try to cover our Academy boys being perhaps bid for surprisingly early in the Draft? - and keep our powder dry for the first round next year?

 

[pauldrc]

But will we? - and what will we use for trade period and still try to cover our Academy boys being perhaps bid for surprisingly early in the Draft? - and keep our powder dry for the first round next year?

Yup,

Reckon Leuey will go (end of 1st rd looking the best we will get), and maybe only one of Redden/Aish, which really won't leave us much left over, especially if Essendon/Collingwood et all bid early on Hipwood/Keays (which I suspect they are likely to do).

 

[neg99]

Yup,

Reckon Leuey will go (end of 1st rd looking the best we will get), and maybe only one of Redden/Aish, which really won't leave us much left over, especially if Essendon/Collingwood et all bid early on Hipwood/Keays (which I suspect they are likely to do).

Collingwood and Essendon are way too early for either player unless they trade in a pick in the teens. Adelaide, Bulldogs, North are more likely bidders IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[braddsey]

Another question on points and bidding (if anyone has some info). Again, using Allison as the example. If Brisbane is holding pick 5, and another club says they will take him at pick 4, Brisbane will agree to match the bid.

Brisbane's pick 5 is worth 1878 points.
Allison at pick 4 would cost 2034 - 20% so total 1627.

Do we get the remaining 251 points credited back somewhere? I've not seen any examples where this is illustrated. All the examples I have seen so far talk about a point deficit - ie. we need an additional 251 points, so our next pick would slide in the draft by the equivalent of 250 points. If our next pick is pick 23, then this would slide to 33.

In the event of a credit situation I would think we get one of the following 3 scenarios:
(1) Normally our pick 5 would go to the back of the draft, however 251 points is worth pick 52 outright. So we should get pick 52 to hold the remaining points.
(2) We have a credit of 251 points, it would seem logical that the credit could be added to our 2nd pick meaning our pick 23 would be upgraded to pick 17.
(3) AFL says suck-it up, you lose the additional points.

I'd prefer option 2, but I think option 1 is probably more likely. If we have more academy kids to bid for then it doesn't really matter... but if we don't then an upgrade from pick 23 to pick 17 is better than an additional pick at 52.
Option 3 is certainly a possibility (though very unfair and I can't imagine the clubs would agree to it).

I don't think this is necessarily an unlikely scenario. With the old father-son selections there always seemed to be an unspoken agreement between clubs that another club would nominate the father-son selection just before the linked club to force them to use their next available pick. I can see this happening under the new system if we have a pick around the draft pick where the player is expected to go. I'm sure all other clubs would rather we took Allison with our first round pick, rather than get another top 5 player with our first pick, and then use lower picks to make the points difference to get Allison.

This is all assuming we have a pick in the top 5 next year, which I truly hope is not the case!!

 

[Fatcat08]

Another question on points and bidding (if anyone has some info). Again, using Allison as the example. If Brisbane is holding pick 5, and another club says they will take him at pick 4, Brisbane will agree to match the bid.

Brisbane's pick 5 is worth 1878 points.
Allison at pick 4 would cost 2034 - 20% so total 1627.

Do we get the remaining 251 points credited back somewhere? I've not seen any examples where this is illustrated. All the examples I have seen so far talk about a point deficit - ie. we need an additional 251 points, so our next pick would slide in the draft by the equivalent of 250 points. If our next pick is pick 23, then this would slide to 33.

In the event of a credit situation I would think we get one of the following 3 scenarios:
(1) Normally our pick 5 would go to the back of the draft, however 251 points is worth pick 52 outright. So we should get pick 52 to hold the remaining points.
(2) We have a credit of 251 points, it would seem logical that the credit could be added to our 2nd pick meaning our pick 23 would be upgraded to pick 17.
(3) AFL says suck-it up, you lose the additional points.

I'd prefer option 2, but I think option 1 is probably more likely. If we have more academy kids to bid for then it doesn't really matter... but if we don't then an upgrade from pick 23 to pick 17 is better than an additional pick at 52.
Option 3 is certainly a possibility (though very unfair and I can't imagine the clubs would agree to it).

I don't think this is necessarily an unlikely scenario. With the old father-son selections there always seemed to be an unspoken agreement between clubs that another club would nominate the father-son selection just before the linked club to force them to use their next available pick. I can see this happening under the new system if we have a pick around the draft pick where the player is expected to go. I'm sure all other clubs would rather we took Allison with our first round pick, rather than get another top 5 player with our first pick, and then use lower picks to make the points difference to get Allison.

This is all assuming we have a pick in the top 5 next year, which I truly hope is not the case!!

The correct answer is option 1. Your pick slides back to the points equivelant. Happens for any pick where you're left with point

 

[SizeMatters]

The correct answer is option 1. Your pick slides back to the points equivelant. Happens for any pick where you're left with point

What if we have multiple picks sliding back? Do we get a new pick for each one or do they add the points together for 1 pick?

 

[Hollow Knight]

What if we have multiple picks sliding back? Do we get a new pick for each one or do they add the points together for 1 pick?

Multiple picks.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

What if we have multiple picks sliding back? Do we get a new pick for each one or do they add the points together for 1 pick?

Each pick slides back accordingly. If we need to use 2 picks on my player, one gets pushed to the back of the draft, the second is adjusted to match the leftover points.

Remember that it's a live system, can't tally up the change at the end, and expect to redo the draft from that point.

 

[dlanod]

What if we have multiple picks sliding back? Do we get a new pick for each one or do they add the points together for 1 pick?

Only one at a time. If the points you need is less than your next pick's worth, that one slides back. If the points you need are more than your next pick's worth, you give up that one and then move on to the next, and see if the points you now need are more than that pick's worth, etc.

 

[Nuggo]

Who would of thought Mathematicians would be running the show.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Who would of thought Mathematicians would be running the show.

Here is the AFL Football Operations Department, or as they've been dubbed... "The Three Muskateers".

They comprise a mathematician, a different kind of mathematician, and a statistician.

 

[Old Den]

Who would of thought Mathematicians would be running the show.

Isaac Newton?

 

[BlackGun1]

if he is too short to have ever have an impact at AFL level than why is he worth a chance on the rookie list?

Well i'd define 'impact' as say an entrenched best 10 type player. I also say 'think', not 'won't' - theres every chance he could (albeit in my eyes a small one) so thats what makes him worth a rookie spot.

When i say 'short' he is 183cm which isn't terrible but I see his skillset being suited to that 185-190cm utility type, thats all

 

[lionsbest]

I hate the points system.I believe most people are confused. Swann has openly stated,he hates the points system. Quote below from the AGE
As his floundering club ponders whether to lobby for emergency draft assistance, Brisbane Lions chief executive Greg Swann has claimed Victorian clubs "hijacked" the reshaping of the northern academy draft bidding process.

While confirming that the bottom-placed Lions were considering asking for a priority pick at the end of the year, Swann lamented what he felt was a looming loss of young footballers in developing states, who will not as readily be able to stay in their home cities.

"The re-jigging of the academy bidding is going to make it harder for us," Swann told Fairfax Media.



Brisbane hates the points system according to reports. So the points system is scrapped under my proposed changes. My proposal is- Future Picks can only be used on draft night and not during the normal trade period.( i.e draft night will be like a mini trade period with in the Draft). Bottom line -Points are confusing.There are no discounts, there are no points.Only trading of picks


So example No. 1--- lets assume Callum was No. 1 draft pick that year. But he is Sydney Academy.

At pick 1, carlton chooses Callum Mills - Sydney then have 10 minutes to either loose Callum to Carlton or offer/package/trade current and future picks to carlton. Sydney may, for example offer pick 15 this year plus there 1st pick next year to Carlton. If Carlton rejects the deal, they must pick Callum. If Carlton accepts Sydney's offer, Carlton loose pick 1 but gain pick 15 plus Sydney's 1st pick next year. Sydney can offer whatever picks they have (i.E. future and current) that are necessary to secure the player they want, in the trade with Carlton.There is no limitations or restrictions,( i.e. picks in 2017 ,2018 etc can be used)

The trade period, prior to the draft is where clubs can trade normally as what happens now. However clubs can use this period to stockpile picks to help them,(come draft night) to gain players they want on draft night.

EXAMPLE NO.2 Lets say Callum is not an Academy player at the Swans, but is a full back that Sydney needs desperately or rates very highly. He becomes available at pick 30.Sydney's next pick however is not until pick 42. So Sydney,rather than loose Callum, can, like above, offer picks present and future to secure Callum.Again, this can only be done on draft night. So Sydney might offer their 1st pick next year to the club, so that they can get their man, Callum, rather than wait for pick 42 only to find out he is no longer available.



In terms of Brisbane -second and third round pick this year for keays and for hipwood second around pick next year. I hope you see were I am going. It could possibly avoid Brisbane using all their points this year on keays and hipwood and having nothing left in the bank this year for the other academy boys.

 

[braddsey]

At pick 1, carlton chooses Callum Mills - Sydney then have 10 minutes to either loose Callum to Carlton or offer/package/trade current and future picks to carlton.

Totally negates the benefit of the academy - all the power sits with the other club (Carlton in your example). If Callum Mills is the best player in the draft, what on earth could Sydney offer that Carlton would accept to make them give him up? Carlton can just sit back and refuse everything and Sydney have no possibility to get their man.
Aside from that the draft night would go for ever... clubs can't even negotiate trades in the space of 10 hours, let alone 10 minutes.

 

[pulpdriver]

Totally negates the benefit of the academy - all the power sits with the other club (Carlton in your example). If Callum Mills is the best player in the draft, what on earth could Sydney offer that Carlton would accept to make them give him up? Carlton can just sit back and refuse everything and Sydney have no possibility to get their man.
Aside from that the draft night would go for ever... clubs can't even negotiate trades in the space of 10 hours, let alone 10 minutes.

I think you need to look deeper into how the points system and matching bids works.

edit: you too lionsbest

 

[Toffee Lion]

Academy was fine how it was.

It's still not all that awful now, just confusing for the most part.

 

[lionsbest]

Totally negates the benefit of the academy - all the power sits with the other club (Carlton in your example). If Callum Mills is the best player in the draft, what on earth could Sydney offer that Carlton would accept to make them give him up? Carlton can just sit back and refuse everything and Sydney have no possibility to get their man.
Aside from that the draft night would go for ever... clubs can't even negotiate trades in the space of 10 hours, let alone 10 minutes.

take your point. Carlton in this example may value the draft next year as better in terms of quality and depth of talent.. So Clubs will have to be creative during the normal trade period.Sydney may trade players during the normal trade period, to get a higher draft pick or picks ,which they can then use at draft night. Sydney may end up with picks 7 and 15 after the trade period. Carlton may then see next years draft as better and deeper and then combined with future picks, may take up Sydney's offer.

In terms of Brisbane -second and third round pick this year for keays and for hipwood second around pick next year. I hope you see were I am going. It could possibly avoid Brisbane using all their points this year on keays and hipwood and having nothing left in the bank this year for the other academy boys.

 

[braddsey]

I think you need to look deeper into how the points system and matching bids works.

I was responding to the post immediately above from lionsbest about an alternate proposal without points.

I'm pretty good with the points and matching bids points system that's in place for the 2015 draft...

 

[pulpdriver]

I was responding to the post immediately above from lionsbest about an alternate proposal without points.

I'm pretty good with the points and matching bids points system that's in place for the 2015 draft...

Okay. It's just that clubs with an academy will always have precedence. If they really value that player they won't ever have to give them up. Unless they have a legion of players worthy of top 10 picks they will be able to obtain all the ones they really want. I think it would have been nice to get one shot of the old system with a group of academy prospects like 2015 presents but don't think the points system is that confusing or unfair. If I had one gripe it would be that 20% discount could be higher but couldn't say if that's simply due to bias.