Carlton 1979-82; Why don't we rate them?

[South of the Yarra]

You have drifted into hyperbole. "Chemically designed athletes" just undermines you argument. I have been watching the game through all these eras and what you say IMHO is incorrect. In the 70s and 80s there were more dirty off the ball belts. Some really cowardly stuff and whacks for blokes who just didn't even see it coming. There was nothing glamorous or brave about the felling of Hudson in the 71 GF by Cowboy, what Balme did to Southby or Greenings major head injury from O'Dea. They were some famous examples of what Weston too often

It's a good thing such stuff has been kicked out of the game. But that doesn't mean today's players don't go hard, they go harder than ever, short steps were prevalent back in the 70's and 80's. Plenty of players would step off a line and whack their opponent rather than go into a 50:50 contest. These days anyone who so much as is a little tentative is up on camera and discussed immediately. Players today know that and commit like never before. They are bigger stronger and faster and hit harder.

Listen to Lethal talk about that and praise the courage of our current players. I am not knocking the old timers. It was a different time with different rules.

I would like to hear of your list of 20 players from Hunters time who were as hard as him. His courage stood out, there were not many who lived with him what it came to bravery

Happy to provide a list of 70s and 80s players as hard as Hunter and will do so throughout the evening when I have the time to type such a list. By the way Hunter was the first player I would pick from an opposition side. Absolute champion. Incidents such as Barry Hall ring a bell in the modern game. Players of the 20s and 30s were even tougher and harder. Men such as Collier, Dyer and Chitty. By the way love the way you construct your opinion without being personal. A BF user well worth having a discussion with. Cheers .... Still disagree with you strongly though.

 

[South of the Yarra]

You have drifted into hyperbole. "Chemically designed athletes" just undermines you argument. I have been watching the game through all these eras and what you say IMHO is incorrect. In the 70s and 80s there were more dirty off the ball belts. Some really cowardly stuff and whacks for blokes who just didn't even see it coming. There was nothing glamorous or brave about the felling of Hudson in the 71 GF by Cowboy, what Balme did to Southby or Greenings major head injury from O'Dea. They were some famous examples of what Weston too often

It's a good thing such stuff has been kicked out of the game. But that doesn't mean today's players don't go hard, they go harder than ever, short steps were prevalent back in the 70's and 80's. Plenty of players would step off a line and whack their opponent rather than go into a 50:50 contest. These days anyone who so much as is a little tentative is up on camera and discussed immediately. Players today know that and commit like never before. They are bigger stronger and faster and hit harder.

Listen to Lethal talk about that and praise the courage of our current players. I am not knocking the old timers. It was a different time with different rules.

I would like to hear of your list of 20 players from Hunters time who were as hard as him. His courage stood out, there were not many who lived with him what it came to bravery

Also today's rules don't allow for as hard a contest as in the 70s. Even marking contests have been diminished.

 

[Gone Critical]

Happy to provide a list of 70s and 80s players as hard as Hunter and will do so throughout the evening when I have the time to type such a list. By the way Hunter was the first player I would pick from an opposition side. Absolute champion. Incidents such as Barry Hall ring a bell in the modern game. Players of the 20s and 30s were even tougher and harder. Men such as Collier, Dyer and Chitty. By the way love the way you construct your opinion without being personal. A BF user well worth having a discussion with. Cheers .... Still disagree with you strongly though.

Likewise. Much better to discuss the issue than get personal. It's just opinions. Again we disagree. Barry Hall incident was a shocker and was dealt with. I believe that is a much more isolated event these days. My biggest feeling is that because players now feel they will not have to deal with a fist from nowhere or a shirtfront to the head they don't anticipate they have a licence to go harder and they do. Rather than the rules not allowing for a contest they have enhanced contested footy. Players just go in much harder today and operate in such a confined area that would have been far too claustrophobic for players skills in the 70s and 80's.

 

[le dominateur]

Carlton has lost alot of respect as we all now know that most of their premierships where bought. Geelong 2007-11 were a great side but got VERY lucky with the father son rule nabbing the ablett boys, scarlett and hawkins -all under the old system and paid bugger all for them. Brisbane were gifted numerous draft concessions/ All thing being equal regardless of this saturdays result Hawthorn is clearly greatest side of the modern era.

Obviously Platten, Dunstall, Buckenara... all came out of Hawthorns local zone.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

I've actually wondered the op's question myself previously. Not out of passion (because I barrack for Carlton), but out of curiosity.

There are so many factors as to why some teams go on a run like the hawks have. These factors are never defined in a discussion. Dare I say, when a team has a lengthy period of success, it's due to an advantage gained off he field, before the period even started. Over a period, there are a sufficient changes with the team, players are there have evolved, and their tactics evolve, that they become separate teams wearing the same colours. If you get what I'm saying?

so maybe these are factors for Carlton?

Without writing a essay about it as to why. I prefer to concentrate on smaller periods, where i recognise an manner of play that makes me go "whoa! That is ******* good"

Fwiw. so from the late 80s. I don't care if other teams have won consecutive GFs. I don't care if they were beaten if a GF. Geelong from 07/08 rocks the most and are no1!

There's similarity of my opinion in the NFL. Other teams have greater periods of success. But for the success/talent/style ratio, the St Louis Rams are no1!

 

[South of the Yarra]

Likewise. Much better to discuss the issue than get personal. It's just opinions. Again we disagree. Barry Hall incident was a shocker and was dealt with. I believe that is a much more isolated event these days. My biggest feeling is that because players now feel they will not have to deal with a fist from nowhere or a shirtfront to the head they don't anticipate they have a licence to go harder and they do. Rather than the rules not allowing for a contest they have enhanced contested footy. Players just go in much harder today and operate in such a confined area that would have been far too claustrophobic for players skills in the 70s and 80's.

20 players from 70s and 80s who were as courageous as the great Kenny Hunter in different ways. Some in the air, some at the ball and some through sheer will power.

Kevin Murray
Tony Shaw
Mark Williams
Gary Wilson
Peter Crimmins
Barry Cable
Ron Wearmouth
Stan Magro
John Platten
Gavin Brown
Bill Picken
Des Tuddenham
Des English
Gary Buckenara
Chris Mew
Les Parish
Wayne Johnston
Rod Ashman
Barry Armstrong
Dennis Banks

 

[Gone Critical]

I think Gav Brown is and maybe Wilson. None of the others I would have at Hunters level of crazy brave

 

[HARKER]

When we talk about the great teams over time we hear about Collingwood in the 20s and 30s, Melbourne in the 50s and 60s, Hawthorn in the 80s and in recent times the Lions, Cats and Hawks.

For those of us who remember the Carlton team from 1979-1982 was one of the greatest teams of all time. The team had so many champions, so many big game players who did it when it counted and were a brilliant team.
They are every bit as good if not better than the recent dominant teams of Lions, Cats and Hawks. I actually rate them higher.
Not sure why some leave them out of the equation. Absolute champion team.

I think that by their own admission, they could have been so much better and allowed at least one other Premiership to slip for complacency.

It's always a little hard to judge a team without taking into account the opposition. CFC were good but wasteful whereas Hawthorn took full advantage of their full crop and made the most of their opportunities.

 

[gavaniacono]

Happy to provide a list of 70s and 80s players as hard as Hunter and will do so throughout the evening when I have the time to type such a list. By the way Hunter was the first player I would pick from an opposition side. Absolute champion. Incidents such as Barry Hall ring a bell in the modern game. Players of the 20s and 30s were even tougher and harder. Men such as Collier, Dyer and Chitty. By the way love the way you construct your opinion without being personal. A BF user well worth having a discussion with. Cheers .... Still disagree with you strongly though.

There was a fellow called Delicate Des Dickson, who my father used to recall as being the Mayblooms ( Hawks) equaliser when they came up against more skilled sides. I liked the name delicate, and the term equaliser too. I like the fact that there were opportunities to equalise. He's worth looking into. There was also a comrade of captain bloods called mopsy Fraser who they say made the captain look angelic. It was a time when rivalry was rooted in local and class divides. The game is better for these gentlemens behaviour not being emulated, however, I love the colourful history they have left.

 

[gavaniacono]

20 players from 70s and 80s who were as courageous as the great Kenny Hunter in different ways. Some in the air, some at the ball and some through sheer will power.

Kevin Murray
Tony Shaw
Mark Williams
Gary Wilson
Peter Crimmins
Barry Cable
Ron Wearmouth
Stan Magro
John Platten
Gavin Brown
Bill Picken
Des Tuddenham
Des English
Gary Buckenara
Chris Mew
Les Parish
Wayne Johnston
Rod Ashman
Barry Armstrong
Dennis Banks

Flying the flag for my team, may I add roger dean and Francis Bourke.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Flying the flag for my team, may I add roger dean and Francis Bourke.

Of course .... Two of the most courageous players ever. Bourke as courageous as you get.

 

[McOrist]

Flying the flag for my team, may I add roger dean and Francis Bourke.

IIRC Roger Dean carried the nickname 'Autumn Leaves' -obviously not with Tiger fans. I'd replace Dean on your list with Flea Weightman. St Francis is at the head of the list.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Flying the flag for my team, may I add roger dean and Francis Bourke.

Never forget the vision of Bourke with blood streaming from his face. Absolute superstar.

 

[Blues177]

From Carlton's eras of '68-72 and '79-82 I rate Carlton's 1972 premiership win as the best considering the blues consistent performance that season and the degree of difficulty they faced in beating their main rival.
Both the the tigers and the blues were at the peak of their eras that season. 2 of Carlton's 3 losses in the H&A season were under a goal and they drew with the Pies at Victoria Park. Richmond also had a great season and finished 2nd with only 4 losses. Both teams had great players- Jesaulenko, Walls, Jackson, Keogh, Armstrong, Nicholls , Southby, Doull, Jones, Waite, McKay, v's Hart, Bourke, Morris, Bartlett, Clay, Sheedy. Richardson, Bond, Balme, Stewart.
Both sides drew in the second semi final at Waverley and that occurred just after both sides went through a winning streak that lasted 2 months. Both sides ended up playing in the grand final and the tigers were favourites due to their easy 7 goal win against the blues in the second semi replay at the MCG.
The tigers were very talented and tough. The tigers strength was their attack and the blues strength was their rock solid defence. The blues made 8 positional changes before the grand final began and attempted to beat the tigers at their own game; the result was an unbelievable high scoring game with 50 goals being scored and the blues won by 27 points. This was achieved without Brent Crosswell who was injured and did not play in the finals. The grand final was the first time the blues beat the tigers that season. Robert Walls once mentioned that he found that win more satisfying than the 1970 grand final win against the pies.
The tigers went on to win back to back flags in '73-74 and ended up with a finals win loss record of 13-3-1 from 1967-74 so they were a very hard team to beat.

Carlton had a similar consistent season in 1979 and similar to the '72 season, 2 of the 3 losses they had were no more than a goal. They had the experienced players of Jones, Jezza, Maclure, Doull, McKay, Keogh, Armstrong, Southby and the team had become a force again with the addition of the mosquito fleet- Harmes, Buckley, Sheldon, Marcou, Francis, Johnston.
I remember that North Melbourne were still a very good team and were playing just as well if not better than they did in the previous 5 years. Gary Dempsey was also recruited from Footscray. The game at Princes Park about round 7 when North beat Carlton was one of the best games I have seen in the 1970's and 1980's. Both teams were undefeated at that stage. It was an epic, fluctuating, high standard game and North kicked 2 goals after the 30 minute mark of the last quarter to win by under a goal. Later on that season we beat North at Arden St by about 20 points in a shootout-another fluctuating game.
Everyone expected Carlton to play North in the grand final in 1979. Carlton were clearly the best side in 1979 and finished 2 games clear on top but I feared North's experienced finals players and the Barassi factor may put a spanner in the works. North started to slide within the next 2 years but were still at their best in 1979. As it turned out we beat the kangas easily in the second semi at Waverley and it looked like North could no longer handle our mosquito fleet, especially on the bigger grounds. I was surprised the kangas lost to the pies in the prelim.
The ground was very wet on grand final day after it pelted down with rain in the morning. It may have been the wettest footy day of the season. Tom Hafey would have been happy with that and he once said he would be happy if it rained until Melbourne Cup day. Jezza explained to the players that the wet ground provided another challenge and they did not let him down.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

They are rated but they were only at their best for a short time compared to other great sides of the same era. Hawthorn were better before them and after them. North were just as good before them. Essendon were just as good after them. They were also lucky in 1979.

 

[brizrider]

Carlton back then were great. As a footy supporter in QLD they were basically the only team I got to see at the time and they were the reason I got into footy in some ways. Even watching Winners Reloaded on Foxtel recently their superior standard to other teams really shows.
The reason they're not rated I assume is because the club in those days had a financial advantage over others and no one really has/had a soft spot for Carlton or respect for them as a club as they might Hawthorn or Geelong.

 

[Shane Hird]

1978 through to 86' was golden era in footy. Plenty of thuggery and late whacks around the jaw during fast, brutal play.

Carlton side were brilliant in those early 80s and recruiting the Buzz to the club was a master stroke. He was the Stevie J of the time.

 

[luciien]

They were overshadowed by the dynasty that began in '83.

 

[Shane Hird]

They were overshadowed by the dynasty that began in '83.

No they weren't. And Never forget that Hawks dynasty was rudely interrupted by 2 complete annihilations in those GFs.
And if not for an unbelievable run of back luck with season ending injuries to key Essendon players from 86 to 89..you might have not done all you did.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

No they weren't. And Never forget that Hawks dynasty was rudely interrupted by 2 complete annihilations in those GFs.
And if not for an unbelievable run of back luck with season ending injuries to key Essendon players from 86 to 89..you might have not done all you did.

No denying that Essendon were a champion team in 85 ( after the GF demolition job - you would have thought theyd win the next 3 on the trot) however i thought they lost their hunger and fell away a fair bit - went to a Swans v Dons game at the SCG - i think it was in 86 ( Edelstens 1st year) and the Swans won by about 20 plus goals - way over 100 points - i dont think you could use the injury card for that

 

[Shane Hird]

No denying that Essendon were a champion team in 85 ( after the GF demolition job - you would have thought theyd win the next 3 on the trot) however i thought they lost their hunger and fell away a fair bit - went to a Swans v Dons game at the SCG - i think it was in 86 ( Edelstens 1st year) and the Swans won by about 20 plus goals - way over 100 points - i dont think you could use the injury card for that

Well I can start with 86 and tell you..

Our number one champion rover Darren Williams played just 4 games that year. Gone by rd 5.

Tim Watson broken leg gone by Rd 4.

Bill Duckworth missed 9 games.

Van Der Haar played just 5 games.

Premiership star defender/winger Nobby Clarke missed 9 games.

Fair chuck of premiership power missing that year you'd have to say.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Jesaulenko, Doull, Southby, Hunter, Johnston. Could keep rolling off the champions.

...Helen D'Amico..

 

[dean33]

When we talk about the great teams over time we hear about Collingwood in the 20s and 30s, Melbourne in the 50s and 60s, Hawthorn in the 80s and in recent times the Lions, Cats and Hawks.

For those of us who remember the Carlton team from 1979-1982 was one of the greatest teams of all time. The team had so many champions, so many big game players who did it when it counted and were a brilliant team.
They are every bit as good if not better than the recent dominant teams of Lions, Cats and Hawks. I actually rate them higher.
Not sure why some leave them out of the equation. Absolute champion team.

Weren't the best team of 82 however were lucky the blonde witch did her thing and helped them over the line...

 

[Shane Hird]

Weren't the best team of 82 however were lucky the blonde witch did her thing and helped them over the line...

It was interesting watching that the other night on the winners.

The way Johnston aggressively shoved her off yelling abuse was like "We're in the middle of a comeback here..#### off!"

A very tough, disciplined team to grind down Richmond in that second half wre Carlton.

 

[Freo]

Claremont beat them in '82 without Jimmy and Phil