Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[Biggy_Boy]

Ive never been his biggest fan. The leg speed he was touted to have has certainly been underwhelming. However to his credit I think hes a natural forward, strong mark and knows were to lead. Furthermore his kicking isnt to bad compared to others on our side. The problem with Smedts is his game hasnt developed as we would of hoped - the position of a medium forward has been occupied by some brilliant players like Johnson and now Menzal. Love to see him prove me wrong but I just dont know with him. Ill continue to sit on the fence.

Yeah, with those 1.5 games, he's cemented his spot.

 

[abet]

Yeah, with those 1.5 games, he's cemented his spot.

Actually those 1.5 games prove his by far the best midium forward we have.

 

[candiehappy]

Cook on Scott '''But we also wanted someone who could demonstrate he could lead the rebuilding of the list to make a big impression again by 2015-2016."
The fact is Cook and the club looked at our coaching panel during the season and found it needed significant change which also means they thought it wasn't doing a good job in it's previous state, hence the appointment of Lloyd, promotion of Scarlett, as well as the demotion of O'bree. Now if the club had lost some confidence in it's coaching team I think it's reasonable to assume they would've lost some confidence in Scott as well given the fact he's the head of that coaching team. Cook will talk up Scott as long as he's at the club just like all club CEO's do but what we should be paying attention to regarding Cooks statements is his expectations of the club which matched against our results next year will tell the true story of how he really thinks Scott is going.

I think that you are right in that if we have a reasonable run with injuries to key players, then having regard to the players we have picked up - without reasonably significant improvement to our position on the ladder, and at least one finals win, his future must be under a cloud.

Personally I am expecting the team to tick those boxes - finish at least 6th with a finals win - and then his next year is safe. But when you have coached a team for that long, with declining success, it is a year to year proposition.

 

[BlightysCats]

Jesus, ling is zero chance of coaching any club.
Even has a full time assistant which should be mandatory before the major job.

As if he's giving up easy street.

Not to mention the fact Ling has actually come out in the media and said he doesn't want to be a full time coach because the hours are too long and the job is too demanding. Just more nonsense from geelong_crazy26.

 

[Cezz The Catter]

Yeah, with those 1.5 games, he's cemented his spot.

I think most would agree on raw talent Menzal can hold his spot over Semdts. Yea he could get injured, yes it coukd be a disaster. But hes showed signs he can get back to his best.

 

[Partridge]

Actually those 1.5 games prove his by far the best midium forward we have.

I'd say game 1 did that.

Game 0.5 showed some days he may not be able to run.

 

[BlightysCats]

I think that you are right in that if we have a reasonable run with injuries to key players, then having regard to the players we have picked up - without reasonably significant improvement to our position on the ladder, and at least one finals win, his future must be under a cloud.

Personally I am expecting the team to tick those boxes - finish at least 6th with a finals win - and then his next year is safe. But when you have coached a team for that long, with declining success, it is a year to year proposition.

The thing is that Cook has publicly stated we failed to meet our main on field KPI by not finishing top 4 this season, he's already said he expects top 4 next season but has done ever since around 2003/4.

From 2003 to 2010 Bomber got us a top 4 finish 5 times with three misses one of those being in 2003 when the team was still extremely young and inexperienced, Scott from 2011 to 2015 has failed to get us top 4 twice already in just 5 seasons and with our straight sets exit from the 2014 finals it could reasonably be argued we didn't really finish top 4 in 2014 either.
The fact is however that if we don't finish top 4 next season that means Scott has failed to meet the clubs, Cooks, and his own main KPI in the last two seasons, and 50% of the time overall that he's coached the club, so should we not finish top 4 next season I think his position would have to be considered very tenuous.

 

[candiehappy]

I think his position would have to be very tenuous.

probably - if we finished fifth and got flogged in the first final, then yes. Finish fifth, win two finals, lose the third in a close one to the team that wins the flag - no. etc

 

[BlightysCats]

****en lol

Says the person who's biggest supporter on here is geelong_crazy26 a poster who thinks a single premiership coach is better than a double premiership coach, that thinks Cameron Ling will coach Geelong, and who also explains our shocking contested possession and clearance numbers under Scott by saying we lack the talent to win those stats despite the fact teams like Carlton finished 5th in clearances for the year and teams like Melbourne and Essendon finished above us in contested possessions for the year.

 

[BlightysCats]

Finish fifth, win two finals, lose the third in a close one to the team that wins the flag - no. etc

Yeah for sure. He'd have earned a contract extension if he does that.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Cook on Scott '''But we also wanted someone who could demonstrate he could lead the rebuilding of the list to make a big impression again by 2015-2016."
The fact is Cook and the club looked at our coaching panel during the season and found it needed significant change which also means they thought it wasn't doing a good job in it's previous state, hence the appointment of Lloyd, promotion of Scarlett, as well as the demotion of O'bree. Now if the club had lost some confidence in it's coaching team I think it's reasonable to assume they would've lost some confidence in Scott as well given the fact he's the head of that coaching team. Cook will talk up Scott as long as he's at the club just like all club CEO's do but what we should be paying attention to regarding Cooks statements is his expectations of the club which matched against our results next year will tell the true story of how he really thinks Scott is going.

Your description above is one possible interpretation , to your credit you have been very consistent in your views BlightysCats

Another interpretation is that Scott and Cook have identified the need for change in the Assistant ranks , you would think that would have come out of the standard Football Department review.
I believe the Cats operate on an inclusive management model with clear transparency and open communication lines. I don't see anything sinister in those changes - we need to continually improve as a Club.

I have previously stated that the 11 Flag altered our rebuild program and timing slightly.
However 2016 is a huge year for the Club and any thing less than Finals would be a fail. If we fail to make Finals you would expect a reasonably brutal review at seasons end.
In the meantime it's going to be a great ride in 2016

 

[BlightysCats]

I believe the Cats operate on an inclusive management model with clear transparency and open communication lines. I don't see anything sinister in those changes - we need to continually improve as a Club.

I don't see anything sinister either but you only change something when it's not working, and if the club felt the coaching dynamic wasn't working last year or the last few years (considering that changes this year are more substantial than for quite some time) then some doubt would have to fall on the head coach and leader of that coaching group...It just makes sense that it would.

 

[BlightysCats]

In the meantime it's going to be a great ride in 2016

Completely! Really looking forward to it.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I don't see anything sinister either but you only change something when it's not working, and if the club felt the coaching dynamic wasn't working last year or the last few years (considering that changes this year are more substantial than for quite some time) then some doubt would have to fall on the head coach and leader of that coaching group...It just makes sense that it would.

Much more doubt would occur should changes not be made. Changing out personnel should be seen as a healthy sign.
If Scott is driving that in conjunction with Cook then that is as positive a sign as our aggressive recruiting.
As they say if you're not part of the solution then you are part of the problem

 

[BlightysCats]

Much more doubt would occur should changes not be made. Changing out personnel should be seen as a healthy sign.
If Scott is driving that in conjunction with Cook then that is as positive a sign as our aggressive recruiting.
As they say if you're not part of the solution then you are part of the problem

Again I agree that changes out should be seen as a positive sign and I'm happy that we've taken action in that area, I'd be surprised if Scott would be driving that though as I doubt any senior coach would want their club to actively chase and employ a guy who's been very open about his senior coaching ambitions. I could see a scenario where Scott said he needed help or guidance and then Cook took care of finding the right guy for the job but surely Scott would be sweating a bit now having Lloyd who's pretty much guaranteed to be a senior coach somewhere in the next 2/3 years breathing down his neck, especially given it's a do or die season for Scott in 2016.

 

[Go Hoops]

QUOTE="BlightysCats, post: 42063694, member: 145518"]Yeah for sure. He'd have earned a contract extension if he does that.[/QUOTE]Seeing you are the self appointed coaching expert who would you have as coach given that Clarkson is unavailable?

 

[BlightysCats]

Seeing you are the self appointed coaching expert who would you have as coach given that Clarkson is unavailable?

Funny I don't remember saying anywhere I was a coaching expert, I just think we can do better than Scott. I've said this before and I'll say it again if Ratten felt up to it (given the death of his son) I'd take him in a minute, and if not probably fatty Stuart Dew (he owes us for 2008) or Lloyd.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Cook on Scott '''But we also wanted someone who could demonstrate he could lead the rebuilding of the list to make a big impression again by 2015-2016."
The fact is Cook and the club looked at our coaching panel during the season and found it needed significant change which also means they thought it wasn't doing a good job in it's previous state, hence the appointment of Lloyd, promotion of Scarlett, as well as the demotion of O'bree. Now if the club had lost some confidence in it's coaching team I think it's reasonable to assume they would've lost some confidence in Scott as well given the fact he's the head of that coaching team. Cook will talk up Scott as long as he's at the club just like all club CEO's do but what we should be paying attention to regarding Cooks statements is his expectations of the club which matched against our results next year will tell the true story of how he really thinks Scott is going.

If you read what Cook said in that statement and look at what he has said more recently than its clear that Scott has exceeded his expectations .

When Cook said we wanted someone who could make an impact by 2015/2016 he also said before which you have left out that it was as much about 2011 as it is 2015/2016 .The message was its as much about the present as the future when they appointed Scott , not literally about 2015 .Also notice how he uses the word impression ? impression can be simpley making the top 6 with a side on the rise next year.

Look at what Cook said earlier this year

“I just hope that through these minor setbacks and minor hardships that there is a positive reaction from our supporters because it has been a pretty good ride for 10 years.

“It can’t last forever and we know that equalisation does take its toll.”

If Cook understands that the good times cant last forever than it defines logic that Cook would think Scott had in anyway failed since he has only missed 1 finals series.

As for cooks most recent statement on Scott

He has had one of the toughest jobs in the AFL. Our club has been in transition ever since he arrived,” says Cook of Scott.

“Winning that premiership in the first year was unbelievable because it could have gone the other way very quickly.

“I think he has done a marvellous job and players getting cranky near the end of their careers is normal unless there is a new way of retiring players"

Clearly he thinks Scott is a great coach .

As for getting new assistants do you think its a new thing for clubs to want the best assistant coaches possible ?

Whos idea do you think it was to gets Lloyd too Geelong ? given the fact that Scott and Llyod worked together at Fremantle is was most likely Scott's idea

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'd say game 1 did that.

Game 0.5 showed some days he may not be able to run.

Yeah I think this is one of those comments on bigfooty that will go into my stupid comments book .

Perhaps after playing so well the week before he had much closer attention paid to him and maybe after missing over 3 years of football he is still adjusting to the tempo of the game ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Completely different.
Wow

Why ?

Why is it ok for Thompson to miss the final after spending 6 years rebuilding , but not ok for Scott to miss the finals after spending only 4 years rebuilding ?

If anything 2006 would be much worse than missing the finals in 2016.

 

[BlightysCats]

If you read what Cook said in that statement and look at what he has said more recently than its clear that Scott has exceeded his expectations .

When Cook said we wanted someone who could make an impact by 2015/2016 he also said before which you have left out that it was as much about 2011 as it is 2015/2016 .The message was its as much about the present as the future when they appointed Scott , not literally about 2015 .Also notice how he uses the word impression ? impression can be simpley making the top 6 with a side on the rise next year.

Look at what Cook said earlier this year

“I just hope that through these minor setbacks and minor hardships that there is a positive reaction from our supporters because it has been a pretty good ride for 10 years.

“It can’t last forever and we know that equalisation does take its toll.”

If Cook understands that the good times cant last forever than it defines logic that Cook would think Scott had in anyway failed since he has only missed 1 finals series.

As for cooks most recent statement on Scott

He has had one of the toughest jobs in the AFL. Our club has been in transition ever since he arrived,” says Cook of Scott.

“Winning that premiership in the first year was unbelievable because it could have gone the other way very quickly.

“I think he has done a marvellous job and players getting cranky near the end of their careers is normal unless there is a new way of retiring players"

Clearly he thinks Scott is a great coach .

As for getting new assistants do you think its a new thing for clubs to want the best assistant coaches possible ?

Whos idea do you think it was to gets Lloyd too Geelong ? given the fact that Scott and Llyod worked together at Fremantle is was most likely Scott's idea

Cook also said this of Scott's coaching and our result this season which you said met Cooks expectations...Certainly doesn't sound like it did in the quote below.
“Our aim is to finish top four.
“It was this year too, by the way, but it didn’t go our way, and it’s our key performance indicator to make the top four.'

 

[BlightysCats]

Why ?

Why is it ok for Thompson to miss the final after spending 6 years rebuilding , but not ok for Scott to miss the finals after spending only 4 years rebuilding ?

If anything 2006 would be much worse than missing the finals in 2016.

Oh c'mon seriously?!? Bomber didn't get 4 promising recruits in his 4th year rebuilding one of which is in the top three best players in the comp and another who was the vice captain of his club.

 

[BlightysCats]

Yeah I think this is one of those comments on bigfooty that will go into my stupid comments book .

Partridge should feel honoured it'll be the first comment other than all of your own to get in your book.

 

[Frappe]

Yeah I think this is one of those comments on bigfooty that will go into my stupid comments book .

Perhaps after playing so well the week before he had much closer attention paid to him and maybe after missing over 3 years of football he is still adjusting to the tempo of the game ?

First game back was a beauty but he could barely run in the 2nd. Probably a good reminder they'll need to manage him closely next year and rest him from time to time.

 

[AM]

Funny I don't remember saying anywhere I was a coaching expert, I just think we can do better than Scott. I've said this before and I'll say it again if Ratten felt up to it (given the death of his son) I'd take him in a minute, and if not probably fatty Stuart Dew (he owes us for 2008) or Lloyd.

There isn't a coach I can readily think of who hasn't said the difference between the responsibilities involved in being an assistant and a head coach are astronomical. From Matthews to Clarkson. Both have said their first few years were not much more than an apprenticeship. Choosing Dew over Scott is so ludicrous it's risible. No head coaching experience. Don't think he's even coached anywhere in his own right. Throw in there's a reason he keeps getting passed over. Apparently his interview for the Blues job was appalling.

As for Ratts, doesn't have great communication skills, isn't tactically astute but is good in a one-on-one situation. That's from someone who knew him well at the Blues. He wasn't picked to take over from Clarkson when Clarko was ill and consistently gets passed over - sometimes not even interviewed - for head coaching jobs.

Thank heavens your role is posting on forums and not selecting our coach. Though I'd be more than happy for you to have a say elsewhere.