Movie Star Wars: The Force Awakens - *Spoilers & Rumours inside*

[Catastic82]

You're welcome fanboi.

May the force be with you heathen

 

[Portmanteau]

Snoke tells Ren to bring the girl to him -> not trying to kill but subdue Rey?

 

[Magpiespower]

Every time Snoke popped up, I mistook him for Bill Nighy...

 

[exe ex machina]

 

[ManWithNoName]

Snoke tells Ren to bring the girl to him -> not trying to kill but subdue Rey?

Or turn Rey to the dark side.

 

[Catastic82]

Every time Snoke popped up, I mistook him for Bill Nighy...

Felt the same just couldn't place the actor's name

 

[Moonwatcher]

Every time Snoke popped up, I mistook him for Bill Nighy...

Lol maybe that is why he irritated me.

 

[Percel]

Week ago I was about to watch this. If I'd known it was A New Hope: Reheated I'd have been less excited.

How are you feeling now little Jedi?

 

[Percel]

Every time Snoke popped up, I mistook him for Bill Nighy...

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Percel still underwhelmed. Was like a confirmation pre-existing Hollywood blockbuster franchises won't do anything new.

 

[glenferry23]

Even if Snoke is Plagueis, it doesn't necessarily mean that was pulling the strings or that Palpatine was his puppet etc.

Its completely possible that Palpatine genuinely thought him dead, but Plagueis was able to 'prevent his own death'. And has remained hidden, in the shadows for all these years biding his time to return.

 

[peternorth]

Sorry to harp on it, but...

There are no innocent people in TFA. The Jakku villagers were protecting the missing piece of the map. They were scum villagers. Protecting an apostle of the Church of the Force who are ONLY about the Jedi side of things, wanting no balance in the force even. Look at it from the First Order's perspective, and Kylo's. They are legitimately an enemy. Legitimately allied to the Resistance, which is like a splinter militant cell of the New Republic -- which is on cold war terms with the New Order. They're being treacherous.

From the First Order's perspective that is right. But from Finn's perspective?

That was Finn's perspective too being a 20-year indoctrinated stormtrooper. Just like all the other Stormtroopers following their commands, doing their jobs. They would've been ingrained to think of the enemies of the FO as enemies. The more pressing point is that in literal minutes, he went from not wanting to kill strangers, to killing his friends/acquaintances that he's known for 20 years. Not only is the change of heart, the changing of sides a bit of a reach, but the lopsided manner of that (20 years vs 5 minutes of battle), and even worse than that, validating in himself suddenly that it's ok to kill stormtrooper friends....especially when just 5 minutes before he was crying at the death of a stormtrooper!

I don't know how better to highlight that. It's like being so upset at the death of your sibling by the hands of your cousins, that you decide to join your cousins side to kill more of your siblings.

so what your saying is that everyone are villains, just depends on which side you are on. i can see that. from my perspective it has so many similarities to whats going on in the world with ISIS, ISIL vs the west.

 

[exe ex machina]

Copy-paste of some choice paragraphs regarding Plagueis.

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First off though, this talk that Disney is trying to distance themselves from the PT is far too black and white. Yes, TFA was very OT-heavy in it's inspiration, though still there were some PT references, including the idea of balancing the Force in the very first scene. But I think this was their way of giving the film series a sort of "soft reboot" so that afterwards people can trust them if/when they do reference the PT. But Disney will be ignoring the PT completely? Nope. Look at Rebels, that show is littered with prequel and TCW references, not to mention characters. The novels are tying into both the OT and PT. We're getting a comic about Obi-Wan and Anakin. The Kanan comic depicted Order 66. The Princess Leia comic involved Naboo and Queen Amidala. All of that is under Disney and more specifically the Story Group. Now, probably the most surprising, The Art of The Force Awakens shows definitively that they were experimenting with the concept of Hayden Christensen returning as Anakin's force ghost (which was rumored before, and is still rumored to occur in VIII). They even got Ewan McGregor to record lines for Obi-Wan. I'm sure they want to avoid aspects of the PT that weren't well received, but the mention of Darth Plagueis the Wise is hardly considered one of those aspects.

Disney would be complete idiots to never reference the PT again. An entire generation grew up on the PT and another grew up on TCW. Disney is about making money. They aren't going to ignore those demographics.

Back to Snoke=Plagueis. There are too many ambiguous things that LucasFilm has gone out of their way on regarding Snoke. Snoke is "humanoid" not any locked down species. Most other new alien has a species name already. Why doesn't Snoke? Pablo doesn't mind decisively saying that "it wasn't Zuvio killed in the force vision, it was a human guy" yet dances around the Plagueis topic with cryptic statements. At this point if it wasn't Plagueis, then why hasn't he or Disney said as much outright? What would they lose by saying that? It would do nothing to the mystery of the character, if anything it would redirect speculation toward other ideas in a positive way. The music is too close of a match to be coincidence. Way too close. John Williams knows what he's doing. The line "The Supreme Leader is wise." The movie should have put the nail in the coffin if it wasn't true, but those things alone have fueled the theory even more. Never mind all the other points that seem to fit - his being around for a long time but outside the Galactic Civil War, his damaged state, descriptions from the crew of him being like a corpse which was reflected on-screen.

If it's true and they do intend to reveal him later on, the writers will do it right. They aren't going to have him say "I am Darth Plagueis!" without some indication first of the significance of that, and where he's been referenced before. Even then, a big-chinned purple guy smiled at the camera after The Avengers and most of the world completely missed the significance of who that was. Yet now people get it. Plagueis is much less of a stretch than that, he's already been established in one of the Episodes, and was a key motivation for Anakin to become Darth Vader. Personally, I think it would be a lot more work from a storytelling perspective to explain that he was an Admiral that we've never seen or heard of and what his significance is, or that he's an extra-galactic force of pure evil and he has this long history with Luke that we never saw.

 

[Nostradumbass]

You're welcome fanboi.

ouch...

 

[Janus]

The original outline that Lucas had was that the actual main antagonist would only turn up in Episode 12 - sort of like the final boss after the main villain of Vader was defeated in Episode 6. Think Double Dragon. The villain for 7-9? Read what Lucas pitched to Kasdan about the ending of Return of the Jedi, and where I think it's heading:

George Lucas pitched a really dark ending. Like, really dark.

Even though Lucas really wanted a bright, upbeat ending, and he fought against killing off any major characters — even Yoda, for a long time — during one story session, Lucas pitched a really, really dark ending. In a nutshell, the scene with Vader and the Emperor unspools the way it does in the final film. Vader sacrifices himself to take out the Emperor, and then Luke helps Vader to take off his famous helmet. And then — Luke puts on Vader's helmet himself. In the transcript of the story session with Lucas and Kasdan, Lucas says: "Luke takes his mask off. The mask is the very last thing — and then Luke puts it on and says, 'Now I am Vader.' Surprise! The ultimate twist. 'Now I will go and kill the [Rebel] fleet and I will rule the universe.'" Kasdan immediately responded, "That's what I think should happen" — but Lucas didn't actually want to go that dark because "this is for kids."

It's entirely possible that Kasdan has used this plot synopsis from Lucas and is going to put Kylo Ren in the place of Vader and Rey in the place of Luke, especially since he said "That's what I think should happen." Can you imagine how epic it will be if on one hand you've got Finn and on the other hand you have Rey, and everyone is like 'Fuuuck...I thought she was the hero!' But the way she falls everyone can sympathize with her (unlike Anakin's fall which felt rushed). Then they announce 10-12 which has a star-crossed lovers vibe between her and Finn, who is trained by Luke (after he refuses to train Rey because he senses the dark side in her), culminating in her being redeemed in 12 and the two of them teaming up Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan style to defeat Snoke/Plagueis.

If they went down that path, Episode 9 would be the most depressing of them all - the inverse of Episode 6.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Even though Lucas really wanted a bright, upbeat ending, and he fought against killing off any major characters — even Yoda, for a long time — during one story session, Lucas pitched a really, really dark ending. In a nutshell, the scene with Vader and the Emperor unspools the way it does in the final film. Vader sacrifices himself to take out the Emperor, and then Luke helps Vader to take off his famous helmet. And then — Luke puts on Vader's helmet himself. In the transcript of the story session with Lucas and Kasdan, Lucas says: "Luke takes his mask off. The mask is the very last thing — and then Luke puts it on and says, 'Now I am Vader.' Surprise! The ultimate twist. 'Now I will go and kill the [Rebel] fleet and I will rule the universe.'" Kasdan immediately responded, "That's what I think should happen" — but Lucas didn't actually want to go that dark because "this is for kids."

That would've been ****ing ridiculous.

 

[exe ex machina]

Just on Rey being to adept at the force too soon... a good point from a copy&paste (CAP) i'll call from now if i keep doing that ugh....

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Luke and Anakin no way near displayed the Power Rey did in their first movies. I don't remember them doing mind tricks, force pulling stuff towards themselves and also wiping the mat with a powerful dark side force user in a duel. If it is revealed latter on that Rey did indeed have some training before , then I could accept this, but if she never had any training, her power in this movie is just plain SILLY.
--
Well, when ANH was made, Lucas hadn;t even decided what the Force really could DO all that much. We get the mind trick, and then Force precognition and enhanced reflexes. That's it. But Luke, with virtually NO training, was able to PRECISELY target a tiny port than even the targeting computers could not, so I think Luke displayed some remarkable abilities there. Anakin, of course, was the only human able to pilot a pod-racer, and even WIN the race against seasoned pros. He's nine. He wasn't even aware he was trying to use the Force and he could do that. Not to mention all the Droid Control Ship stuff. All three of our Jedi Heroes were pretty damned remarkable right out the chute.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

It's entirely possible that Kasdan has used this plot synopsis from Lucas and is going to put Kylo Ren in the place of Vader and Rey in the place of Luke, especially since he said "That's what I think should happen." Can you imagine how epic it will be if on one hand you've got Finn and on the other hand you have Rey, and everyone is like 'Fuuuck...I thought she was the hero!' But the way she falls everyone can sympathize with her (unlike Anakin's fall which felt rushed). Then they announce 10-12 which has a star-crossed lovers vibe between her and Finn, who is trained by Luke (after he refuses to train Rey because he senses the dark side in her), culminating in her being redeemed in 12 and the two of them teaming up Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan style to defeat Snoke/Plagueis.

If they went down that path, Episode 9 would be the most depressing of them all - the inverse of Episode 6.

OK, someone has gotten into the eggnog early, put down the keyboard, you're drunk.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Luke and Anakin no way near displayed the Power Rey did in their first movies. I don't remember them doing mind tricks, force pulling stuff towards themselves and also wiping the mat with a powerful dark side force user in a duel. If it is revealed latter on that Rey did indeed have some training before , then I could accept this, but if she never had any training, her power in this movie is just plain SILLY.

They didn't know they could, Rey has some understanding of what Jedi can do (plus she's just read Kylo Rens mind), Luke and Anakin really didn't.

 

[Catastic82]

Drunk people everywhere in here lol

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The bad reviews are coming in now because its had nothing but good reviews (because its a good movie) and these people have to flip the status quo and say something different to seem relevant... its so obvious

 

[exe ex machina]

More copy&paste why it's not a stretch for Rey to be shown so powerful...

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I would just like to point out that for some reason after the prequels, there's some fans who actually think that "training" to become a Jedi actually means the way Rocky trains to become a boxer or that they need to take classes or something. It's really heavily implied in the OT that the most important training is conquering ones demons and overcoming personal obstacles. In fact when Luke goes back to complete his training with Yoda, he literally does nothing besides listen to him talk.

I have no idea why Lucas decided to go this way with the prequels, but I have no idea why he did a number of any other things either. So please just keep that in mind next time you want to talk about "training"


In fact , Luke never even trained with a lighstaber unless you want to count 20 seconds with a floating ball lightsaber training.

So the fact that Rey used the force one more time than Luke did it's somehow.... Unrealistic. Luke was never taught how to force pull either.... Yet he pulls the saber right out of that show at Hoth anyway doesn't he.


Rey got a first hand look inside of Kylo's mind - where an absolute wealth of information would have been and experienced the force in a way that Luke never did in ANH. So to compare their journeys as needing to be exactly the same is so dumb. Rey is powerful in the force, deal with it.

 

[Janus]

That would've been ******* ridiculous.

LOL obviously they would have fleshed it out more. It was Lucas spitballing with Kasdan, not a final shooting script

 

[Catastic82]

LOL obviously they would have fleshed it out more. It was Lucas spitballing with Kasdan, not a final shooting script

Still would had been shit inagine the rage further more with prequels to follow that

 

[Millky95]

The original outline that Lucas had was that the actual main antagonist would only turn up in Episode 12 - sort of like the final boss after the main villain of Vader was defeated in Episode 6. Think Double Dragon. The villain for 7-9? Read what Lucas pitched to Kasdan about the ending of Return of the Jedi, and where I think it's heading:

George Lucas pitched a really dark ending. Like, really dark.

Even though Lucas really wanted a bright, upbeat ending, and he fought against killing off any major characters — even Yoda, for a long time — during one story session, Lucas pitched a really, really dark ending. In a nutshell, the scene with Vader and the Emperor unspools the way it does in the final film. Vader sacrifices himself to take out the Emperor, and then Luke helps Vader to take off his famous helmet. And then — Luke puts on Vader's helmet himself. In the transcript of the story session with Lucas and Kasdan, Lucas says: "Luke takes his mask off. The mask is the very last thing — and then Luke puts it on and says, 'Now I am Vader.' Surprise! The ultimate twist. 'Now I will go and kill the [Rebel] fleet and I will rule the universe.'" Kasdan immediately responded, "That's what I think should happen" — but Lucas didn't actually want to go that dark because "this is for kids."

It's entirely possible that Kasdan has used this plot synopsis from Lucas and is going to put Kylo Ren in the place of Vader and Rey in the place of Luke, especially since he said "That's what I think should happen." Can you imagine how epic it will be if on one hand you've got Finn and on the other hand you have Rey, and everyone is like 'Fuuuck...I thought she was the hero!' But the way she falls everyone can sympathize with her (unlike Anakin's fall which felt rushed). Then they announce 10-12 which has a star-crossed lovers vibe between her and Finn, who is trained by Luke (after he refuses to train Rey because he senses the dark side in her), culminating in her being redeemed in 12 and the two of them teaming up Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan style to defeat Snoke/Plagueis.

If they went down that path, Episode 9 would be the most depressing of them all - the inverse of Episode 6.

I really feel like that would be Luke breaking character. He would have only fallen to the Dark Side with his father.