Movie Star Wars: The Force Awakens - *Spoilers & Rumours inside*

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

The earlier argument about death star 2.0 moving reminded me of Sheldon Cooper for some reason. You guys ever think the eagles should of just flown everyone to Mordor to drop the ring in and not only turn up when they felt like it? Or how much a lock door to the entrance of Mount Doom would have helped Sauron.

I hope someone, preferably Chewie gets to kill Ren. Don't even care if he turns back to the light side. Can't wait to see more of Supreme leader Gollum in the next movie.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

The earlier argument about death star 2.0 moving reminded me of Sheldon Cooper for some reason. You guys ever think the eagles should of just flown everyone to Mordor to drop the ring in and not only turn up when they felt like it? Or how much a lock door to the entrance of Mount Doom would have helped Sauron.

They couldn't have done that, it wasn't in the book.

 

[ManWithNoName]

They're Jedi not Neo from the Matrix, although you could be onto something Kylo Ren could stop blaster bolts mid-flight.

You're talking to a brick wall there I'm afraid.

 

[edgie]

You just proved my point tho. The only thing you can do with a character like Obi-Wan, Luke, and Rocky (etc), is by turning them into some trainer for some new person. It's BORING. In SW they can kill them off and turn them into force-ghosts. So it's cheaper/easier to do that. Whereas Rocky isn't force-sensitive, in a galaxy far far away. So for Rocky to be a trainer, Stallone actually gets to act right thru the movie. Has a meaty part.

But you can look at other movies in history....where the powerful good-guy as an older man, has a fall from grace, struggles thru something like alcohol, or whatever. THEN it's interesting again. Because they have to keep living, are fallible, your life never ends as such.

But in SW they've already unfortunately established this easy-out of turning a powerful Jedi into a force-ghost. Because intrinsically, a Jedi is a boring character anyway. Basically just a monk. They don't fornicate, drink, aren't greedy, etc. So what can you do with Jedis anyway? Whereas the Sith are far more interesting...they do EVERYTHING!

The point about Rocky wasn't specifically to do with the plot, more so, that we know the backstory, we know there's an aura of stuggling going on in his life, and we care about the character and want to see them set things right and find a will to not only survive, but to live and fight again. If anything, I think it is closer to Rocky Balboa? You know that's actually a better comparison. Rocky V ended with a "False victory", in a way, the same as ROTJ. In Rocky Balboa he steps back in to the ring, after all else feels lost and his life wasteful, to find something to fight for.

Luke has already had his fall, has retreated to exile, and is currently struggling. Did you not see his expression at the end? It is interesting already. Nothing more needs to be added to make the current incarnation of Luke Skywalker interesting for episode 8. Because he doesn't drink or **** or show greed that doesn't make him interesting? Well that rules out 90% of Star Wars characters!

Surely you can acknowledge his current inner turmoil?

If you wanna cheer for the bad guys, that's alright, but you can do that without discrediting the number 1 good guy of the story, painting him as boring, stagnant, and nothing left to accomplish?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Whether Luke Skywalker is still interesting or not, the bigger factor may well be just how much Mark Hamill wants to do in the next movies. If he is keen to get in shape and be the hero Jedi again, great. If he just wants to have a few token appearances without too much effort required, don't be surprised to see him be a ghost very early on.

 

[Heardy_101]

You can almost predict it. Given what Disney did with TFA, copy-pasting from the OT.

Luke will get killed off early in Ep8. It's the natural story arc for that character. Think of Obi-Wan, if the prequels came first, then the original trilogy.

Luke right now in Ep7 is like us watching Obi-Wan from I to III, and there's no where else to take his character in IV but to kill him off and make him a force-ghost. Especially as Guiness the actor in IV is old and wont be around forever. The Obi-Wan story is boring now at the end of III, so IV, all you can do is kill him off so you introduce the NEW jedi hero story -- Luke.

Same is happening here now. Luke we saw in IV to VI, the same story as Obi-Wan's rise to Jedi knighthood. Now 30 years later, Hamill is old like Guiness, wont be around forever, so kill him off for the NEW jedi hero story -- Rey.

The character of Luke now is boring.....if......he's just going to remain a light side hero who trains the next jedi. Many think it would ruin his character if he was made to turn to the dark side, etc....but if you want Luke to have an ongoing actual part in VIII and IX, then he'd have to like turn to the dark side or something. Otherwise he's boring now, and we just kill him off and turn him into a force-ghost.

It worked in the OT, because we saw the end product (the old Obi-Wan), no backstory, thus WANTED to see him as a young man, what made him become this old great jedi.

It's poetry.

Obi-Wan between III and IV, retreated into exile, and meditated, learned to become mightier in the force thru Jinn's force-ghost. Maybe what? 20-30 years passed before A New Hope? Obi-Wan is old now. He trains the new Jedi.

Luke between VI and VII, retreated into exile, and meditated, learned to become mightier in the force thru Kenobi's force-ghost. About 30 years passed before The Force Awakens. Luke is now old. He trains the new Jedi.

Surely Disney ain't doing that!!!

Guinness died in 2001.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I expect Abrams to go away from the Star Wars super weapon and focus the main threat on Snoke and maybe a large hidden imperial fleet emerging to inflict a defeat on the rebels in ep 8 and the death of an older main character like Luke or Leia to set up ep 9.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Also, it appears we might see the reappearance of clones with the failure of Hux's programmed troops.

 

[glenferry23]

The thing is, Starkiller base is just sorta there, it is so obviously tacked on. A great deal of plot and importance was placed upon the original Death Stars, however Starkiller reeks of an afterthought, and any attention paid to it's grandeur in the film is fleeting and token.

Agreed. It was included for nostalgic purposes, to resonate with the core fans of the OT. In particular the size comparison scene to the Death Star.

But it had little context otherwise. It was its own worst enemy - how could something that advanced, that powerful, be built with a shockingly catastrophic design error. Not only rendering the weapon useless, but destroying the entire planet its built on.

That, and Leia and Chewie blanking each other after Han's death, were extremely disappointing for me. The lowlights of an otherwise glorious experience.

 

[glenferry23]

I expect Abrams to go away from the Star Wars super weapon and focus the main threat on Snoke and maybe a large hidden imperial fleet emerging to inflict a defeat on the rebels in ep 8 and the death of an older main character like Luke or Leia to set up ep 9.

Abrams is done, he's out. Next one is written and directed by Rian Johnson.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Abrams is done, he's out. Next one is written and directed by Rian Johnson.

There you go, moving on to some sensible enemy threats. What's Johnson's credentials, film wise?

 

[Janus]

Agreed. It was included for nostalgic purposes, to resonate with the core fans of the OT. In particular the size comparison scene to the Death Star.

But it had little context otherwise. It was its own worst enemy - how could something that advanced, that powerful, be built with a shockingly catastrophic design error. Not only rendering the weapon useless, but destroying the entire planet its built on.

That, and Leia and Chewie blanking each other after Han's death, were extremely disappointing for me. The lowlights of an otherwise glorious experience.

What design error? Han had to fly the Millennium Falcon at light speed through the shields, disable the shields and even then it wasn't going to be enough - they had to blow a hole in the thermal oscillator with all the explosives they had just so that Poe could fly his X-Wing inside it and destroy it with proton torpedoes.

The only design error it had was a human one. If Ren had simply killed Han, Chewie, Rey and Finn by sending an entire division into the building instead of wanting to have his last moment with daddy, none of it would have mattered.

 

[Janus]

There you go, moving on to some sensible enemy threats. What's Johnson's credentials, film wise?

The Brothers Bloom, Brick, Looper and directed the Breaking Bad episodes Ozymandias, Fly and Fifty-One. He's very, very good.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

The Brothers Bloom, Brick, Looper and directed the Breaking Bad episodes Ozymandias, Fly and Fifty-One. He's very, very good.

Very good, l hope he really fleshes Snoke out as a threat to be really feared in the same vein as palpatine.

 

[glenferry23]

What design error? Han had to fly the Millennium Falcon at light speed through the shields, disable the shields and even then it wasn't going to be enough - they had to blow a hole in the thermal oscillator with all the explosives they had just so that Poe could fly his X-Wing inside it and destroy it with proton torpedoes.

The only design error it had was a human one. If Ren had simply killed Han, Chewie, Rey and Finn by sending an entire division into the building instead of wanting to have his last moment with daddy, none of it would have mattered.

You've already highlighted one error, the fact that a ship at light speed can penetrate the shields. Imagine if it was say a Star Destroyer sized ship, perhaps packed with explosives and sent in kamikaze style?

There's one flaw.

As for the others, we are rehashing old ground here. But the fact that no one notices the shields are down after Phasma meekly takes them down. And then the oscillator's destruction causing a cascade reaction that destroys the planet.

The flaw was so obvious, that a sanitation officer/guard was able to determine its vulnerability.

It was all just a little too convenient.

Good viewing, and exciting to watch. But, too convenient.

 

[swiftdog]

Luke's boring? Good thing he's not the main character anymore, I think people are forgetting that. Remember, the kids that Disney are marketing to have little, if any, idea who Luke Skywalker is. This story will ultimately be driven forward by Rey, Finn, Kylo and Snoke. I'm sure Luke will still have an important part to play but there's a reason they're selling Rey, Finn and Kylo action figures and not Luke, Leia etc.

Turning Luke to the dark side would be the worst. He spent the better part of the OT resisting the dark side. His own father couldn't get him to turn. I feel turning him to the dark side would piss on the OT a bit considering he was the beacon of light and the good guy. And again, given that this isn't his story it would take away from Kylo and Snoke being the main villains.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

The only design error it had was a human one. If Ren had simply killed Han, Chewie, Rey and Finn by sending an entire division into the building instead of wanting to have his last moment with daddy, none of it would have mattered.

Nah, if Phasma had just shown a spine and not turned off the shields when threatened they wouldn't have been able to do jack. What kind of storm trooper captain does she think she is?

 

[Janus]

You've already highlighted one error, the fact that a ship at light speed can penetrate the shields. Imagine if it was say a Star Destroyer sized ship, perhaps packed with explosives and sent in kamikaze style?

There's one flaw.

As for the others, we are rehashing old ground here. But the fact that no one notices the shields are down after Phasma meekly takes them down. And then the oscillator's destruction causing a cascade reaction that destroys the planet.

The flaw was so obvious, that a sanitation officer/guard was able to determine its vulnerability.

Again, human error, rather than a design flaw. Design flaw is mechanical/engineering.

And a Star Destroyer sized ship would have to have a one in a billion chance of hitting the thermal oscillator in the right place to make a dent. You could see in the schematics of Starkiller Base that the thermal oscillator was connected to the core of the planet - it was akin to a huge heat sink, regulating the energy stored within until it was ready to fire.

 

[edgie]

Luke's boring? Good thing he's not the main character anymore, I think people are forgetting that. Remember, the kids that Disney are marketing to have little, if any, idea who Luke Skywalker is. This story will ultimately be driven forward by Rey, Finn, Kylo and Snoke. I'm sure Luke will still have an important part to play but there's a reason they're selling Rey, Finn and Kylo action figures and not Luke, Leia etc.

Turning Luke to the dark side would be the worst. He spent the better part of the OT resisting the dark side. His own father couldn't get him to turn. I feel turning him to the dark side would piss on the OT a bit considering he was the beacon of light and the good guy. And again, given that this isn't his story it would take away from Kylo and Snoke being the main villains.

Bullshit, people I went to school with still knew who Luke Skywalker is, even if they don't like Star War, and my age group is well after the OT release. It is as cultural as James Bond or King Kong. Luke SKywalker action figures would be even more prominent than the new characters IF Disney weren't so keen (and I do respect them for it) on keeping his role in this film as secretive as possible.

 

[glenferry23]

Very good, l hope he really fleshes Snoke out as a threat to be really feared in the same vein as palpatine.

Hope he does the same with Kylo. The foundation is already there with how delved into the mind of Walter White in Breaking Bad.

Adam Driver made some great comments at SDCC that I recall, along the lines of Kylo not necessarily being a bad guy. Or a villain. But doing what he believes is right. There's a fine line between evil and one believing they are doing the right thing.

It's a line that was walked throughout Breaking Bad. TFA has laid the foundations for a great Star Wars villain, very promising. Looking forward to seeing how Johnson takes this further in the next episode.

 

[edgie]

The Brothers Bloom, Brick, Looper and directed the Breaking Bad episodes Ozymandias, Fly and Fifty-One. He's very, very good.

I thought Looper was a bit of snorseville.

 

[edgie]

Nah, if Phasma had just shown a spine and not turned off the shields when threatened they wouldn't have been able to do jack. What kind of storm trooper captain does she think she is?

Nek minnit her actress will be pumping out lines like "she's a strong and committed female character"

 

[glenferry23]

Again, human error, rather than a design flaw. Design flaw is mechanical/engineering.

And a Star Destroyer sized ship would have to have a one in a billion chance of hitting the thermal oscillator in the right place to make a dent. You could see in the schematics of Starkiller Base that the thermal oscillator was connected to the core of the planet - it was akin to a huge heat sink, regulating the energy stored within until it was ready to fire.

It's absolutely a design flaw that no alert is sent to the bridge/command centre when the shields were taken down.

As for my ship analogy, I wasn't necessarily referring to oscillator. I meant a ship could target the weapon itself, or the bridge. Anything really.

 

[Seeds]

Average movie. Only decent part were the new characters (although Han Solo and Chewy had a couple of nice moments). The whole plot was pretty awful and I cant' think of any great scenes. The end was quite anti climatic and the special effects were meh. Soundtrack was also meh. There was also nothing new created about the world (unless you count a light saber having a cross).

Also what was with Carrie Fishers voice? To much chain smoking?

 

[Thrawn]

Abrams is done, he's out. Next one is written and directed by Rian Johnson.

Isn't he staying on as a producer and consultant?