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Besides GAblett...

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JackOutback said:
Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey, Bob Skilton, Dick Reynolds, Hayden Bunton, Gablett Sr, Judd. Could name more that would be in the frame. We're talking about the 10 best players in 100 years, not the best player seen recently.
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His accolades are as good as anyone in history. 2x Brownlow Medalist (probably should have 4 minimum), 5x AFL MVP, 8x All Australian, 5x club B&F winner (2 in premiership seasons), 2x Premiership player.

He is a freak... if he isn't in top-5 discussions (let alone top-10), then I'll be buggered!
 
footyfan78 said:
Newsflash mate. It is easier to have a better average number of votes now per game than ever.
9 games a round compared 6 makes a big difference to how the best players can attract the votes in a game.
You are going to have more quality players to compete against to get Brownlow votes when the talent is more concentrated into fewer number of clubs. It is why players that are good poll often over 30 votes to win. If Ross Glendinning, Gary Dempsey, Keith Greig, Malcolm Blight, Phil Carman, Bruce Abernethy, David Dench, Wayne Schimmelbsuch, the Krakouer brothers and Kym Hodgeman playing in the same game and for the same team, good luck seeing anyone poll 30 votes, no matter how good they are.

Nathan Fyfe is an excellent player but do not make the mistake of using Brownlow votes per game compared to eras of talent condensed into fewer clubs as a guide to where he should be rated.
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Sorry not sure if I'm following. Are you saying it was harder to poll brownlow votes in a non-professional state league with 12 teams (sourcing players from a population of 2-3M), than it is in a national professional league with 18 teams (sourcing players from +20M)
 
mfcrox said:
His accolades are as good as anyone in history. 2x Brownlow Medalist (probably should have 4 minimum), 5x AFL MVP, 8x All Australian, 5x club B&F winner (2 in premiership seasons), 2x Premiership player.

He is a freak... if he isn't in top-5 discussions (let alone top-10), then I'll be buggered!
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Absolutely in the discussion, just pointing out that when discussing the absolute elite, people aren't being unreasonable by rating a Mathews, Carey, Ablett Sr or any of the others mentioned narrowly ahead of him.

He's probably the only current player in the discussion(now Judd has retired).
 

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JackOutback said:
Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey, Bob Skilton, Dick Reynolds, Hayden Bunton, Gablett Sr, Judd. Could name more that would be in the frame. We're talking about the 10 best players in 100 years, not the best player seen recently.
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Sneaking in Judd...
 
JackOutback said:
Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey, Bob Skilton, Dick Reynolds, Hayden Bunton, Gablett Sr, Judd. Could name more that would be in the frame. We're talking about the 10 best players in 100 years, not the best player seen recently.
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GAJ is easily the equivalent or better than all of those in terms of superlative excellence long term. How many players are that far ahead of the pack year after year, as voted by their peers? Doesn't matter what era you look at. MVP is a prestigious award. That is all.
 
JackOutback said:
Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey, Bob Skilton, Dick Reynolds, Hayden Bunton, Gablett Sr, Judd. Could name more that would be in the frame. We're talking about the 10 best players in 100 years, not the best player seen recently.
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Ones not quite the same as the others. Rate a player only after he's finished playing, If Ablett finished playing right now he would only have 8 elite season which pushes him out of the top ten.
 
Vdubs said:
GAJ is easily the equivalent or better than all of those in terms of superlative excellence long term. How many players are that far ahead of the pack year after year, as voted by their peers? Doesn't matter what era you look at. MVP is a prestigious award. That is all.
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Half the players dont watch football. MVP is a rubbish award.

Do you believe Miss Universe is anything other than a beauty contest?
 
HairyO said:
Half the players dont watch football. MVP is a rubbish award.

Do you believe Miss Universe is anything other than a beauty contest?
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What award do you rate?
Brownlow? 2, should be 4
B&F? 1 at Geelong, 3 at GC
Coaches Awards? 3 consecutively
Media Awards? 8
AA? 8 consecutive years- in fact, the standard he set from 2007 to 2014 has not been seen by any other player, according to most scribes and footy experts.
I agree, awards are not the be all.
How about your own honest appraisal?
Hawthorn bias aside, he should be in anybody's estimates top 5, I say with lenience
 
Being, ahh, mature enough to have seen Whitten, Barassi, Hudson, Skilton and Matthews, I feel GAblett jnr is the only player in current times to be close to Top 10. Another Brownlow would put him very, very close. He's a match winner in the mould of the previously mentioned group.

Having said that, Ian Stewart won 3 Brownlows and rarely gets mentioned in these threads. I also think Stewart is nowhere near the top.

My father used to say he'd never seen a FB like Herb Henderson. Kept Coleman goalless a couple of times, never game him more than 3 in a game.
Would love to see Coleman, in his prime, take on SOS, Scarlett and Glendenning (anyone remember him?). Hard to make objective decisions when dealing with players from other eras, isn't it?
 
How can you use Brownlows as a measure of greatness when 2/3rds of players are excempt from winning it ?

As for Ablett, without doing a list as in not a historian he would be borderline top 10 not anywhere near top 3 like some are suggesting.

There seems to be this myth that he's been far and away the best player year after year, but it's just not true.
 

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JackOutback said:
Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey, Bob Skilton, Dick Reynolds, Hayden Bunton, Gablett Sr, Judd. Could name more that would be in the frame. We're talking about the 10 best players in 100 years, not the best player seen recently.
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I haven't seen much of the older footy but i cant help but think GAJ would shred those blokes back in the day. Especially in the last quarter where fitness comes more into play.
 
skittlebrew said:
I haven't seen much of the older footy but i cant help but think GAJ would shred those blokes back in the day. Especially in the last quarter where fitness comes more into play.
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Yes, and given the advances in fitness and preparation, Jerome Holder would probably bowl Don Bradman out for a duck nine times out of 10. That doesn't mean he is the greater cricketer. That's not how comparing eras works.
 
JackOutback said:
Yes, and given the advances in fitness and preparation, Jerome Holder would probably bowl Don Bradman out for a duck nine times out of 10. That doesn't mean he is the greater cricketer. That's not how comparing eras works.
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Please aware me on how exactly 'comparing eras' works.
We give the old timers a free pass because they had to go to work in the morning? I will judge people on what they have done not on any untapped potential.
 
skittlebrew said:
Please aware me on how exactly 'comparing eras' works.
We give the old timers a free pass because they had to go to work in the morning? I will judge people on what they have done not on any untapped potential.
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If you're using factors like fitness, professionalism etc as a guide, then it will be but a decade or two before Gablett is a hack because the next generation of footballers will be bigger, faster etc. It's not Leigh Mathews' fault he was born before Gablett and it is not Gablett's skill that led him to be born now. Players can only be judged on their record against who they were playing against at the time and guys like Mathews, Skilton, Reynolds etc have records that stand up to Abletts.

If the greats of the past were born now, they would likely still be legends. Likewise, if Gablett played 50 years ago, he'd likely be legend.

As I said, the Don's fitness, speed, hand-eye coordination compared to current players would probably mean he wouldn't make a state side if he was transported to today. Does that make him a worse cricketer than Shane Watson?
 
JackOutback said:
If you're using factors like fitness, professionalism etc as a guide, then it will be but a decade or two before Gablett is a hack because the next generation of footballers will be bigger, faster etc. It's not Leigh Mathews' fault he was born before Gablett and it is not Gablett's skill that led him to be born now. Players can only be judged on their record against who they were playing against at the time and guys like Mathews, Skilton, Reynolds etc have records that stand up to Abletts.

If the greats of the past were born now, they would likely still be legends. Likewise, if Gablett played 50 years ago, he'd likely be legend.

As I said, the Don's fitness, speed, hand-eye coordination compared to current players would probably mean he wouldn't make a state side if he was transported to today. Does that make him a worse cricketer than Shane Watson?
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GAJ has usurped Judd as the premier mid of the past 10 years, no mean feat.
 

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mfcrox said:
You must have very high standards... arguments could be made for him winning every Brownlow between 2007-2014, but he won 5 AFL MVP's in that time, so it sort of balances out.

His record is PHENOMENAL... no-one in history even comes close to that level of dominance. If that isn't worthy of top-10 status, then I'll be buggered if I know what is.

You got Cyril in your top-3 have you?
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I do have high standards, it's the top ten of all time.

I was exaggerating somewhat to emphasise my point of what an elite group it is. There are a host of fantastic players that are are in some top tens and not in others, and he is in that group for sure. He'll be a shoo-in if his output remains elite for another couple of seasons. Right now there is still speculation if he is as good as his Dad, and his Dad isn't even in every top 10. Also, who will he supplant? Matthews? Lockett? Bunton? Cyril?
 
crazywildhorse said:
I do have high standards, it's the top ten of all time.

I was exaggerating somewhat to emphasise my point of what an elite group it is. There are a host of fantastic players that are are in some top tens and not in others, and he is in that group for sure. He'll be a shoo-in if his output remains elite for another couple of seasons. Right now there is still speculation if he is as good as his Dad, and his Dad isn't even in every top 1.
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But close to it.
EFA
 
Furn2 said:
How can you use Brownlows as a measure of greatness when 2/3rds of players are excempt from winning it ?

As for Ablett, without doing a list as in not a historian he would be borderline top 10 not anywhere near top 3 like some are suggesting.

There seems to be this myth that he's been far and away the best player year after year, but it's just not true.
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Agreed.

Fyfe's first half of 2015 was as dominant as anything Ablett has done.

But he is aLONG way from top 20 or 30, let alone top 10.
 
footyfan78 said:
You're not following. That is ok. If you don't get it, you don't get it. I explained it quite clear enough. Read what I said. Work on comprehension then you will not need to ask what I was saying.
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No need to be rude, it wasn't clear to me.
 

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