List Mgmt. 2016 Draft, Trading and Free Agency Thread

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've watched Battle a few times now (both live and on the TV) and he does have some talent and I wouldn't be upset if he was on our list. But every time I have seen him play, he has a burst of good football and for the rest of the game has pretty much gone missing. Some may use the excuse "but the supply dried up, how can a forward be expected to do well when the ball isn't coming inside 50?"... sound familiar? As much as we need more KPF depth we also need to be able to deliver the ball inside 50 effectively. I'm not saying our current personnel (once we add Fyfe and Bennell in to the mix) can't do that but I don't think you can ever have enough classy ball users in a side and personally I feel we'd benefit considerably from having more.

The argument that we should take biggest need with our first pick regardless of how far we reach doesn't sit well with me. Football lists are becoming more and more like the stock market. You weigh up the pros and cons of a bunch of stocks (players) and buy the one that is most likely to give you the biggest return on your investment. The value of that investment is not just impacting your ability to win games but also what that stock may be worth down the track if you decide to sell either it or other stocks that you no longer need because that stock is performing better. Then you can reinvest that "money" in to more stocks, and continually improve your portfolio. So sometimes it may even be more astute to stock up in an area (ie position/role) because then you can sell some of those stocks whilst minimising the impact on your B22 and success.

Battle would be a great pick up with a second rounder (if he lasts that long). Relatively low cost but a great return if he succeeds. As a top 5 pick though he's a massive gamble. Succeed and we'll break even but fail and that currency is completely gone (eg Simpson). The chances of him being worth more than a pick 3 in the future are pretty slim based on what the experts are saying about him and that's why I wouldn't take that gamble. I'd rather take a safer bet with an investment that is far more likely to appreciate like one of those top 4 classy smalls. A KPP like Weitering or Schache is also guaranteed to appeciate and an even better investment than a classy mid but Battle isn't in their league unfortunately. My gut feel is there will be much better KPF prospects next year that we can use a mid first rounder on.
 
Sicily can play wing and defend as well . As for battle if he is pav like then different. Pav is once a generation player that play forward, mid and defend.the closer i can compare that player is rotham . But if sps available is stupid not to select cyril like player.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

wayToGo_ said:
I've watched Battle a few times now (both live and on the TV) and he does have some talent and I wouldn't be upset if he was on our list. But every time I have seen him play, he has a burst of good football and for the rest of the game has pretty much gone missing. Some may use the excuse "but the supply dried up, how can a forward be expected to do well when the ball isn't coming inside 50?"... sound familiar? As much as we need more KPF depth we also need to be able to deliver the ball inside 50 effectively. I'm not saying our current personnel (once we add Fyfe and Bennell in to the mix) can't do that but I don't think you can ever have enough classy ball users in a side and personally I feel we'd benefit considerably from having more.

The argument that we should take biggest need with our first pick regardless of how far we reach doesn't sit well with me. Football lists are becoming more and more like the stock market. You weigh up the pros and cons of a bunch of stocks (players) and buy the one that is most likely to give you the biggest return on your investment. The value of that investment is not just impacting your ability to win games but also what that stock may be worth down the track if you decide to sell either it or other stocks that you no longer need because that stock is performing better. Then you can reinvest that "money" in to more stocks, and continually improve your portfolio. So sometimes it may even be more astute to stock up in an area (ie position/role) because then you can sell some of those stocks whilst minimising the impact on your B22 and success.

Battle would be a great pick up with a second rounder (if he lasts that long). Relatively low cost but a great return if he succeeds. As a top 5 pick though he's a massive gamble. Succeed and we'll break even but fail and that currency is completely gone (eg Simpson). The chances of him being worth more than a pick 3 in the future are pretty slim based on what the experts are saying about him and that's why I wouldn't take that gamble. I'd rather take a safer bet with an investment that is far more likely to appreciate like one of those top 4 classy smalls. A KPP like Weitering or Schache is also guaranteed to appeciate and an even better investment than a classy mid but Battle isn't in their league unfortunately. My gut feel is there will be much better KPF prospects next year that we can use a mid first rounder on.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I actually feel really comfortable that Lloyd and his team will deliver us the best option at pick 3. Other than missing/ignoring the McGovern brothers I think they've done a great job with our drafting in the last 5 drafts which I think he's (Lloyd) pretty much had a stable team since.
 
If we are looking at a key forward outside of the first round we should also be checking out Karl Brown (193cm) from the Calder Cannons in the TAC Cup. This kid wasn't fit enough for AFL last season but looks the goods this year. He is killing it in the TAC Cup - 43 goals from 13 games.
 
wayToGo_ said:
If we are looking at a key forward outside of the first round we should also be checking out Karl Brown (193cm) from the Calder Cannons in the TAC Cup. This kid wasn't fit enough for AFL last season but looks the goods this year. He is killing it in the TAC Cup - 43 goals from 13 games.
Click to expand...

A tall forward called Brown? Let's get him!
 
Cobbler said:
Nicholls is not contracted for next year and rumours on GC boards is that Rocket isn't pleased with him or Matera.

Maybe part of the bad boys club.

Sounds right up our ally?
Click to expand...

Love it Cobbler really rate Nicholls could be a star in a couple more seasons please not Vickery he is another Taberner only room for one.
 
Clems Knee said:
A tall forward called Brown? Let's get him!
Click to expand...
He wasn't invited to the national draft combine. That might be because he was there last year??? He'll be tested at the Vic State combine though. He only played one game in the U18s (for Vic Metro) I think, and he kicked one goal but had a bit of a shocker. He may be a dud but at least worth investigating given he obviously knows where the sticks are. Worst case we could get him over for a day to teach our guys (j/k).
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

wayToGo_ said:
Cody Ninyette with another 3 goals for Perth Reserves half way through the third (they are spanking Peel). Still think we should be looking at him as a future Ballantyne replacement.
Click to expand...

It'll be interesting to see whether he's rated come draft day. He's pretty classy but he'll probably slide under the radar of some clubs after missing state selection due to being suspended for the first month of the season.

The issue could be his size - he makes Fisher look stocky! But he's played as well, if not better, the last two weeks against the bigger bodies in the reserves as he has in the colts this year. I think having those bigger bodies to rove around in the forward line has helped him a bit.
 
estibador said:
It'll be interesting to see whether he's rated come draft day. He's pretty classy but he'll probably slide under the radar of some clubs after missing state selection due to being suspended for the first month of the season.

The issue could be his size - he makes Fisher look stocky! But he's played as well, if not better, the last two weeks against the bigger bodies in the reserves as he has in the colts this year. I think having those bigger bodies to rove around in the forward line has helped him a bit.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree. I'm thinking rookie pick because he'd have to be speculative. There is something about those guys with freakish talent that makes me want to take a gamble on them. Sometimes I think using a late draft/rookie pick also takes the pressure off all parties a bit and nobody feels bad if it doesn't work out. Kind of feel a lot of clubs waste their rookie spots going too safe.
 
Yes a certain chance. If he goes, someone will get a steal as he hasnt proven himself enough to be worth much but is going to be a very handy player.
 
couldhavebeen said:
Suban is contracted till next year also RTB rates him .Yes his out put has been down the last few weeks but he allows Mundy to go down back .Suban has been doing the grunt work that Barlow and Clancee were doing so I have faith that he will come back into form . His work load has got harder with the missing players and I'm of the opinion he is playing sore at the moment . Once we have our first grade midfielders playing alone side him and he is allowed to play his usual role he will improve . Suban is well above WAFL level plus he is experienced which is what we need now and until the rest of the young guys develop .
Click to expand...

Suban has done nothing.
 
Was just thinking about what if we traded our first rounder next year for GWS's best first rounder this year, throw in some extra points/picks (eg our third and fourth) and make McCarthy part of the deal. We could end up with pick 3 (for SPS/McCluggage) and a later pick to use on Marshall/English/Rotham, plus we get McCarthy and use any picks we get for compensation/trades on other needs and possibly even Hill if that's a viable option.

I know for those with dreams of Hogan it means we have no 1st rounder next year but we can't use both the 2017 & 2018 1st rounders anyway because you need to use 2 in the draft every 4 years. But given we'd use 2 this year (I think they both count), then we should be able to use both the 2018 & 2019 1st rounders on player trades if we wanted. Just a thought I'd throw out there...
 
wayToGo_ said:
The argument that we should take biggest need with our first pick regardless of how far we reach doesn't sit well with me. Football lists are becoming more and more like the stock market. You weigh up the pros and cons of a bunch of stocks (players) and buy the one that is most likely to give you the biggest return on your investment. The value of that investment is not just impacting your ability to win games but also what that stock may be worth down the track if you decide to sell either it or other stocks that you no longer need because that stock is performing better. Then you can reinvest that "money" in to more stocks, and continually improve your portfolio. So sometimes it may even be more astute to stock up in an area (ie position/role) because then you can sell some of those stocks whilst minimising the impact on your B22 and success.

Battle would be a great pick up with a second rounder (if he lasts that long). Relatively low cost but a great return if he succeeds. As a top 5 pick though he's a massive gamble. Succeed and we'll break even but fail and that currency is completely gone (eg Simpson). The chances of him being worth more than a pick 3 in the future are pretty slim based on what the experts are saying about him and that's why I wouldn't take that gamble. I'd rather take a safer bet with an investment that is far more likely to appreciate like one of those top 4 classy smalls. A KPP like Weitering or Schache is also guaranteed to appeciate and an even better investment than a classy mid but Battle isn't in their league unfortunately. My gut feel is there will be much better KPF prospects next year that we can use a mid first rounder on.
Click to expand...

I disagree with a couple of points here. The stock market analogy is pretty much 'Best Player Available' when you get right down to it. Nothing more or less. And that works fine in a market where's there's comparable levels of supply at each position, and where it is relatively easy to trade one for another.

This is absolutely not the case when it comes to genuinely good KPFs, one's you'd be happy with as your #1. You get them via very high draft picks (most common), you get them via zone/father-son/concessions shenanigans (next most common) or you get them via trade for genuine A graders (not very common at all). Very, very rarely you may luck out with someone like Redpath or Brown, but they are not the rule and they do not tend to be the really good ones.

There comes a point where you have to take the pick for position, because otherwise you're just not getting one. Now, i'm not saying Battle is the one. I like the sound of Marshall better, and even then my point is more about the general philosophy rather than the specifics of this draft. Something our club's history offers a unique perspective on. We have taken the safe route so far, the BPA route, the 'sell our stocks where we have excess route' and we have bugger all to show for it.

The other point that I worry about is pushing it (i.e. taking our ******* medicine and drafting a KPF) further down the road. These players take a while, only complete freaks like Hogan make an impact in their 1st year (actually 2nd year of senior footy for him), and they don't become genuinely good for a few years. Do we keep pushing it down the road, delaying that peak, when we have a core of guys who are moving into their mid 20s? I don't know. I don't have a solution to it, but that's something i'd seriously consider if I was making the decisions.
 
TheMcManusNose said:
I disagree with a couple of points here. The stock market analogy is pretty much 'Best Player Available' when you get right down to it. Nothing more or less. And that works fine in a market where's there's comparable levels of supply at each position, and where it is relatively easy to trade one for another.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't think you quite understood what I was getting at. My argument is "best player available" shouldn't be as simplistic as taking a universally agreed phantom draft and taking the next available player on it. It's a balance of risk vs need for every pick. If you reach too far that risk becomes way too high and especially for early picks. I think if you look at drafting across all AFL clubs, most play it very safe in the first 10 picks or so. And if you look back through history, not a lot of those picks have been duds in the long run. Of course you are going to have incidents out of your control (eg injuries) that will impact on some but overall I'd be surprised if there were any list managers/recruiters willing to gamble too much with those top 10 picks.

Has any club in the last 5 years reached for a player predicted to be a whole round away? We haven't had a top 10 pick since Morabito in 2009, so given the rarity I'd rather we invested in blue chip rather than put our pick 3 on the roulette wheel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

go_the_dockers
  • Poll
List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets
190 191 192 193 194
Replies
5K
Views
240K
Dockeroo
D
King Huskii
  • Locked
Strategy 2022 Trade and Draft Thread
Replies
2
Views
1K
Snuffaluphagus
Snuffaluphagus
Tonga Bob
Analysis Best Traded Team vs Best Drafted Team
2
Replies
29
Views
1K
Piggy Smalls
Piggy Smalls
Gimme the Fyfe
Game tickets/Resale/Trade
Replies
5
Views
339
freo_leo29
freo_leo29
TheInjuryFactory
  • Sticky
Universal Love 2024 Freo Buddy Draft
2 3 4 5
Replies
110
Views
5K
vidwhal
vidwhal
Ysaye
List Mgmt. 2024 Young Talent Time (Drafting)
2 3 4 5
Replies
120
Views
9K
pK75
pK75
King Huskii
2023 and onwards/depth and draft strength
2 3
Replies
61
Views
5K
theGav56
T

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top