Traded Jaeger O'Meara [traded to Hawthorn for pick 10 and GWS's 2017 2nd rd pick]

[halfback dasher]

Although, you could forgive them having poor young talent when it's due to them being the most successful club over the last five years. If I was a Hawthorn fan, I wouldn't be crying about a lack of young talent when my team has just won three cups.

No tears here but very curious as to how we get back on track .

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

No tears here but very curious as to how we get back on track .

It doesn't hurt to take a plunge on the ladder to reload, the Bulldogs went from the top to the bottom and back to the top in six years. Hawks may have to do something similar but it will be worth it in the end

 

[The 747]

It doesn't hurt to take a plunge on the ladder to reload, the Bulldogs went from the top to the bottom and back to the top in six years. Hawks may have to do something similar but it will be worth it in the end

I'm hoping they follow the Brisbane model.

 

[Saint]

Of course we have the least talented youngsters, we've played off in the last 4 Grand Finals, and the year before that played in a Prelim
This years pick 14 will be the best pick we've had since we drafted Cyril

No denying it from me, but every club in the comp would take our position right now if it meant having our last 4 years (4 GF's, 3 flags)

We debuted 7 kids and won 17 games this year

Smart recruiting, which is something we do extraordinarily well, will see us continue to flourish

We're not talking about the last 3 years, we're talking about this year and the next 3 years. I don't think Hawthorn had another option than to do what they've done to win the cups.

But the lack of under 25 talent and the trade rules as they stand mean the Hawks have extremely difficult choices to make about balancing the chance of a flag next year with Mitchell, Burgoyne and Hodge against the very real risk that it may jeopardise their list for the next 5 years.

I think they do everything they can to get Mitchell (in particular) and JOM, but they're going to have to recognise that at the end of next season if they finish about where they finished this season, then a lot of that over 25 talent is going to have to be traded for real quality picks to reset the list entirely and they'll probably miss the finals for a few years.

Believing that you can lose players like Hodge, Burgoyne, Mitchell and Gibson along with the continued ageing of Lewis, Roughead, Birchall, Puopolo etc without bringing in serious A-Grade talent beyond just JOM and Mitchell (Vickery doesn't count) and still maintain the same standards is delusional. Especially the way the Dogs and GWS are charging up the ladder with most of their talent under the age of 25.

 

[Saint]

You rate Degoey and Aish ?

You rate Howe and Lovell ahead of them?!?

 

[halfback dasher]

You rate Howe and Lovell ahead of them?!?

Who mentioned Howe and Lovell ??
I didn't !

 

[cdcanman]

I don't think Hawthorn had another option than to do what they've done to win the cups. But the lack of under 25 talent and the trade rules as they stand mean the Hawks have extremely difficult choices to make about balancing the chance of a flag next year with Mitchell, Burgoyne and Hodge against the very real risk that it may jeopardise their list for the next 5 years.

I agree with all of this. The decisions they have made could well jeopardise their future, but do they really have a choice with the quality still on the list? They are still very much a live a chance to win a flag next year if a few things fall their way this offseason. Not time to tear it all down yet IMO.

I think they do everything they can to get Mitchell (in particular) and JOM, but they're going to have to recognise that at the end of next season if they finish about where they finished this season, then a lot of that over 25 talent is going to have to be traded for real quality picks to reset the list entirely and they'll probably miss the finals for a few years.

I don't necessarily agree with this however. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

I understand what you are saying. Trying to retool, not tumble all the way down the ladder and build through the draft, is a difficult thing to do, and ultimately may not work out. Quite clearly Hawthorn seem to be taking the retool on the run path. With the changes in the player movement system in recent years it certainly gives you a better chance of being successful at it, but it is bloody difficult to achieve, not impossible, just difficult. They will still have a reasonable core group in place once Mitchell, Hodge Burgoyne and Hodge go (no guarantee all 4 do, possible one or 2 have longer left in them). A lot needs to go right, but HFC have been getting a lot right in recent years. Geelong are an example of this approach being possible. Hawthorn are in a very similar position to what Geelong found themselves in 2 years ago IMO.

NM are a team who loaded up on experienced players to try and snatch a flag recently. Ultimately that didn't work out either, but I would still argue that they did absolutely the right thing in their circumstances. They got close. If Hawthorn's retool build ultimately doesn't work out, I'm pretty sure I will sit down at the end of it all and confidently say that I still think they did the right thing given their situation right now. Don't forget, each year there are 17 teams whose list build ultimately doesn't work out. Flags are bloody hard to win. You can do everything right and still not win one. Need a lot of things to go right. Need some luck. Impacted of course by what other teams are doing/achieving too.

Ultimately retooling may not work. But I still think it is the right approach in Hawthorn's current circumstances

 

[Hawkinspired]

Good post. Just because a team has bottomed out and rebuilt doesn't mean it's the correct method. Geelong and Hawthorn are often looked to from there 2000's rebuilds, but has anyone else actually done it and won premierships since?

Free agency and player movement has really gained traction in recent years so much so that we have seen the Geelong style rejuvenation last trade period which has taken them from the bottom 8 to a PF.

Don't be surprised to see Hawthorn and other thereabouts sides to use FA and trading in favour of securing extra draft picks.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Now you are being deliberately obtuse. I can spell it out clearly for you, but I don't really think I need to, do I?

No you don't. You seem hell bent on an argument.

I just wanted to point out that I didn't think Langford wasn't a one game wonder. **** it. Ignore.

 

[WilloTree]

Except that by commenting, you literally did just that.

Can I just say what an honour it was to be present when the word 'literally' was finally used in its correct context.

Well done. On behalf of the English-speaking world; thank you.

 

[Tedeski]

See here's the thing , we get two 23 and unders and say two 26 and unders and that effectively fills the void caused by continuous success.
That's why we WILL do what ever it takes to land JOM ,Mitchell and Vickery .
And I'll tell you this , we ARE trying for 1 or 2 more .
If we succeed and we are back running with the pack .

Good for you!
Go get em son!
If you really want something badly, you can just shut your eyes ........................& click your heels.................

 

[Tedeski]

Doomsday scenario?

Let's say the Hawks sell their soul to get JOM, sign him up for the 5 years he is asking on big bucks, remembering he supposedly knocked back 800-900K at GC on a long term deal!
Let's say his knee troubles continue & he sits out the next few years!

Just saying!

 

[Billyc]

That's entirely the point. Hawthorn on one hand saying they've got great young talent, on the other hand saying they haven't had any decent picks so haven't got any decent talent.

Just looking at that Collingwood list, it's miles ahead of Hawthorn's young guys. Hawthorn people can delude themselves all they want, but there's a reason their selections were high draft picks. Howe, Sicily, Lovell and Brand have all been glimpsed and haven't been particularly impressive. Sicily's done a few good things, but has very clear deficiencies in his game. I agree they'll improve, but I can't see any of them being much better than B Grade at best. Burton is the only one who looks like he has genuine talent and high level potential.

Hawthorn people will probably disagree, but I think the majority view would be that Hawthorn have the least talented young players in the league.

You may well be right on raw ability. But at the end of the day it comes down to developing people, not unlike any other job. And Hawthorn's record on that front is unrivalled (Geelong is the only club that comes close in recent years). No shortage of very talented early picks amount to nothing in the development wastelands that are a number of clubs.

A lot is made of Hawthorn's excellent trading record. The reality is that on many occasions, we were perceived as paying overs at the time and it is our system of development that made those trades look great in hindsight.

I'm comfortable that within our system a number of those young blokes will be very good players but there is no denying we have not picked up any clear cut "superstar" types, which generally require high draft picks. Free agency and trading will hopefully help us on that front over the next 2-3 years.

 

[halfback dasher]

Good for you!
Go get em son!
If you really want something badly, you can just shut your eyes ........................& click your heels.................

Worked for you boys with Bud ..thanks for your support tiger

 

[Billyc]

Doomsday scenario?

Let's say the Hawks sell their soul to get JOM, sign him up for the 5 years he is asking on big bucks, remembering he supposedly knocked back 800-900K at GC on a long term deal!
Let's say his knee troubles continue & he sits out the next few years!

Just saying!

Could say the same thing about Buddy and your list for the next 6 years. And let's be honest, this time last year you'd have been worried. These are the risks clubs take.

 

[Tedeski]

Worked for you boys with Bud ..thanks for your support tiger

Could say the same thing about Buddy and your list for the next 6 years. And let's be honest, this time last year you'd have been worried. These are the risks clubs take.

No comparison!

Buddy over here JOM over here!


Buddy hits the ground running after playing in 2013 p'ship!


JOM hits the ground......................ah.........................walking..................sort of............ after not playing for two years!

 

[Billyc]

No comparison!

Buddy over here JOM over here!


Buddy hits the ground running after playing in 2013 p'ship!


JOM hits the ground......................ah.........................walking..................sort of............ after not playing for two years!

Not an unreasonable comparison at all. Buddy's "issues" that kept him from playing in last year's finals series were well known at the time you recruited him. You gave him 9 years on a lot more money than we will be giving JOM (albeit we don't have COLA).

 

[cdcanman]

Doomsday scenario?

Let's say the Hawks sell their soul to get JOM, sign him up for the 5 years he is asking on big bucks, remembering he supposedly knocked back 800-900K at GC on a long term deal!
Let's say his knee troubles continue & he sits out the next few years!

Just saying!

What were you trying to achieve with this post? Just being a clown for no reason seemingly. Ask yourself the question, 'Why did I post this?' Seriously, how do you answer this question?

There is no doubt that O'Meara is risk. No doubt at all.
But Hawthorn are a club in the right situation to take such a risk.
It may ultimately not work out. Even if it doesn't, I'll still think the club made the right decision to take the risk given our circumstances.

 

[carnthedons]

Doomsday scenario?

Let's say the Hawks sell their soul to get JOM, sign him up for the 5 years he is asking on big bucks, remembering he supposedly knocked back 800-900K at GC on a long term deal!
Let's say his knee troubles continue & he sits out the next few years!

Just saying!

I don't feel like doomsday is the correct description for this.

 

[Tedeski]

What were you trying to achieve with this post? Just being a clown for no reason seemingly. Ask yourself the question, 'Why did I post this?' Seriously, how do you answer this question?

There is no doubt that O'Meara is risk. No doubt at all.
But Hawthorn are a club in the right situation to take such a risk.
It may ultimately not work out. Even if it doesn't, I'll still think the club made the right decision to take the risk given our circumstances.

You don't see the irony?
Swans have been questioned for many things regarding Buddy's recruitment & length of contract as though we as a club have been irresponsible.

So I'm am now highlighting the hypocrisy!

 

[Tedeski]

I don't feel like doomsday is the correct description for this.

Figure of speech as used on AFL360!

 

[beta_condition]

You don't see the irony?
Swans have been questioned for many things regarding Buddy's recruitment & length of contract as though we as a club have been irresponsible.

So I'm am now highlighting the hypocrisy!

You have no idea how much we're paying or the contract length, so youre highlighting nothing and even if it is correct it doesn't prove what posters have said about the Buddy deal being risky/dumb.

 

[Saint]

You may well be right on raw ability. But at the end of the day it comes down to developing people, not unlike any other job. And Hawthorn's record on that front is unrivalled (Geelong is the only club that comes close in recent years). No shortage of very talented early picks amount to nothing in the development wastelands that are a number of clubs.

A lot is made of Hawthorn's excellent trading record. The reality is that on many occasions, we were perceived as paying overs at the time and it is our system of development that made those trades look great in hindsight.

I'm comfortable that within our system a number of those young blokes will be very good players but there is no denying we have not picked up any clear cut "superstar" types, which generally require high draft picks. Free agency and trading will hopefully help us on that front over the next 2-3 years.

I think a lot of that is myth. There are few examples of Hawthorn truly turning players around. The success from 2008 to 2015 was built off the very successful drafts of the early 2000's when Mitchell, Hodge, Franklin, Roughead, Lewis and Rioli were brought into the club. They are the core of this success. The Hawks didn't miss a single draft pick while teams like Richmond were busy picking Tambling and Fiora.

Other trades have brought in people like Gunston, Burgoyne Lake and Gibson, but these were known quality players.

I think Hawthorn will miss Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne and Gibson more than they either realise or are letting on. Geelong's recent demise was due to the retirements and ageing of guys like Corey, Chapman, Johnson and Bartel and the loss of Ablett, who were the core of Geelong's success.

I don't doubt that Hawthorn could rejuvenate like Geelong has, but they need a hell of a lot to go right especially amongst their younger players.

O'Meara is a good start, but he barely replaces Burgoyne, still lots of others to replace and that's just to break even with the current team who didn't make the Prelim.

 

[Tedeski]

You have no idea how much we're paying or the contract length, so youre highlighting nothing and even if it is correct it doesn't prove what posters have said about the Buddy deal being risky/dumb.

Sure!

 

[beta_condition]

Sure!

Oh you have inside information do share, please.