Strategy Trade and List Management thread 2.(...the waiting for the hammer to fall edition)

[Del165892]

50/50 Goldstein is at the Dogs next year

 

[Mutt]

50/50 Goldstein is at the Dogs next year

What's your source for that information? I'd be sceptical, because the cost would far outweigh the benefit in my view.

 

[Del165892]

What's your source for that information? I'd be sceptical, because the cost would far outweigh the benefit in my view.

Our first and Jong or equivalent would get it done. If Norf don't trade him now then he will be out of contract and a year older next year and his value plummets. They need a hard rebuild, young midfielders and draft picks. He won't be around for their next premiership and they won't be playing finals next year. It's a good trade for them. We have the cap space already with Minson and Koby leaving.

As much as I love Roughy in the ruck his versatility allows him to play anywhere with second ruck duty. Boyd has a chance to develop as a key forward. The most awkward part is that we just re-signed Campbell. But it if Boyd fires we suddenly have elite talls all over the ground for the first time in forever. Cloke would play mostly VFL unless Boyd is out or we feel like going super tall some weeks.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

The contract he would demand would be epic Scrag. Cant see it happening mate.

 

[Del165892]

The contract he would demand would be epic Scrag. Cant see it happening mate.

No more than what Hurley was asking.

 

[Mutt]

Our first and Jong or equivalent would get it done. If Norf don't trade him now then he will be out of contract and a year older next year and his value plummets. They need a hard rebuild, young midfielders and draft picks. He won't be around for their next premiership and they won't be playing finals next year. It's a good trade for them. We have the cap space already with Minson and Koby leaving.

As much as I love Roughy in the ruck his versatility allows him to play anywhere with second ruck duty. Boyd has a chance to develop as a key forward. The most awkward part is that we just re-signed Campbell. But it if Boyd fires we suddenly have elite talls all over the ground for the first time in forever. Cloke would play mostly VFL unless Boyd is out or we feel like going super tall some weeks.

What is the source of your information that Goldstein is a 50% chance to come to the Bulldogs?

If you think that our first and Jong gets it done but that's not a steep price, I think you are sadly wrong. Jong has value - he is not worth nothing. You are effectively saying that our first and a second or early third round pick plus $650 to $750k per year from our salary cap for Goldstein. That's way too much for what he would bring to the team. As much as I think that Goldstein is a good player, if we are going to give up great picks and a heap of salary cap to one player, it had better be for someone who makes a huge difference to our team - perhaps Hurley, Rance, Reiwoldt.

 

[Del165892]

What is the source of your information that Goldstein is a 50% chance to come to the Bulldogs?

If you think that our first and Jong gets it done but that's not a steep price, I think you are sadly wrong. Jong has value - he is not worth nothing. You are effectively saying that our first and a second or early third round pick plus $650 to $750k per year from our salary cap for Goldstein. That's way too much for what he would bring to the team. As much as I think that Goldstein is a good player, if we are going to give up great picks and a heap of salary cap to one player, it had better be for someone who makes a huge difference to our team - perhaps Hurley, Rance, Reiwoldt.

Well we can argue all day about whether he is worth that price but it's not going to be productive. What each of us considers to be a “steep” price is purely subjective and using our opinions as a basis for argument will never reach a conclusion. I find it interesting that you have claimed that my opinion is objectively wrong based soley on the fact that it differs from your opinion.

From my perspective, pick 17 or 18 are technically first rounders but they might as well be early second rounders. Jong would likely go for a pick 27 or thereabouts. So it's essentially two early seconds that we are giving up. I personally think he is worth that.

In terms of whether or not he helps us out structurally then we clearly have very differing opinions but I respect your position. Plenty of teams have been successful without dominant rucks.

At the end of the day the coaching staff will decide whether or not he would be worth the investment. The fact that we were chasing Lobbe last year makes me think that Bevo is keen on getting some ruck depth. Granted, that was before Roughy came on, but I shudder to think what our midfield could do with a tap specialist like Goldy putting it down their throats.

The “50/50” theory I came up with is based on the fact that there are two possibilities; he will either be at the Dogs next year or he won't.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

The “50/50” theory I came up with is based on the fact that there are two possibilities; he will either be at the Dogs next year or he won't.

Ha interesting definition of 50-50 probability. The world will either blow up tomorrow or it won't - but it ain't 50-50...

 

[HK_Bulldog]

The “50/50” theory I came up with is based on the fact that there are two possibilities; he will either be at the Dogs next year or he won't.

Our education system needs some work.

 

[Mutt]

Well we can argue all day about whether he is worth that price but it's not going to be productive. What each of us considers to be a “steep” price is purely subjective and using our opinions as a basis for argument will never reach a conclusion. I find it interesting that you have claimed that my opinion is objectively wrong based soley on the fact that it differs from your opinion.

From my perspective, pick 17 or 18 are technically first rounders but they might as well be early second rounders. Jong would likely go for a pick 27 or thereabouts. So it's essentially two early seconds that we are giving up. I personally think he is worth that.

In terms of whether or not he helps us out structurally then we clearly have very differing opinions but I respect your position. Plenty of teams have been successful without dominant rucks.

At the end of the day the coaching staff will decide whether or not he would be worth the investment. The fact that we were chasing Lobbe last year makes me think that Bevo is keen on getting some ruck depth. Granted, that was before Roughy came on, but I shudder to think what our midfield could do with a tap specialist like Goldy putting it down their throats.

The “50/50” theory I came up with is based on the fact that there are two possibilities; he will either be at the Dogs next year or he won't.

I'd suggest that if you are going to make a straight out statement about where a player will end up, that you either state your source, or you state that it is your opinion. Otherwise you look like someone who is suggesting that they have some sort of insider information, which you clearly don't have.

And yes, I said that I think that your assessment of value is wrong. At no point did I say it was anything but my opinion, so I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I didn't play the FACT! card, did I?

 

[Mofra]

Agree we are well placed. But since you asked for a cold shower....IMO much of our success this year is based on incredible intensity and running. Should that drop off we could fall back to the pack as our list is possible underweight in good talls and skilled kicks. Especially compared to teams like GWS, GC, crows, Sydney,and WC.

... and handball club, which I assume most clubs will mimic over the pre-season to try and reduce our competitive advantage there.

We will need to rely on development of our younger players and more consistency from the likes of Stringer, Tom Boyd, and our KPDs to maintain our current level.

 

[Del165892]

I'd suggest that if you are going to make a straight out statement about where a player will end up, that you either state your source, or you state that it is your opinion. Otherwise you look like someone who is suggesting that they have some sort of insider information, which you clearly don't have.

And yes, I said that I think that your assessment of value is wrong. At no point did I say it was anything but my opinion, so I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I didn't play the FACT! card, did I?

Claiming that I am wrong is implying that you know that as an objective fact, which is a flawed assumption as an assessment of value can't be correct or incorrect. I suggest you work on your command of the English language before engaging in dialogue.

Also, I never claimed to have any source of inside information, that was your own imagination running wild and you putting words into my mouth.

 

[Aldo]

Ha interesting definition of 50-50 probability. The world will either blow up tomorrow or it won't - but it ain't 50-50...

There's a 100% chance the world will blow up on Saturday though. If the doggies win, the planet wouldn't be able to contain the joy and if they lose, I'm quitting life and taking everyone and everything with me.

 

[Del165892]

Our education system needs some work.

I never received a formal education. Everything I knew I learned on bigfooty.

 

[The Wonder Dog]

Everyone has said that Koby has a pretty high ceiling, the thing is that he's way too inconsistent and his bad games are absolutely dreadful and hurt us more than a bad Jong game does.

He has been a great servant for us and his best football is more than good enough, but he seems only able to deliver in a very inconsistent manner.

Yes he did get a lot of the ball on Sunday, but boy it was painful to watch - he was butchering better than a King island farmer.

 

[doggies ftw]

I'm torn on Goldy, he's getting on a bit and you never know when a ruck mans going to fall apart. But our midfield with a dominant ruckman would be breathtaking, we have to set up defensively at stoppages when you're conceding the hit outs but when you've got someone like Goldy palming it down your throat 50 times a game (as well as hitting the scoreboard himself) our midfield would be literally unstpppable.

Rough is the perfect 2nd ruck and allows us to go small down back and Boyd rotates between FF/CHF.

 

[Dogsman16]

Unless we could land Brodie Grundy (which we won't) I'm not fussed at all picking up a ruck. Sure another depth ruck and a backup for the Tom Boyd role (forward/ruck) is key, but I'm happy with our current stock.

I really want to draft a long term KPF, who is mobile enough, and can take marks on the lead and contested marks. Essentially a Jack Riewoldt clone without the finger pointing. Cloke to do the grind work until such a player is ready.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

5

Our education system needs some work.

50/50 your write

 

[Mutt]

Claiming that I am wrong is implying that you know that as an objective fact, which is a flawed assumption as an assessment of value can't be correct or incorrect. I suggest you work on your command of the English language before engaging in dialogue.

Also, I never claimed to have any source of inside information, that was your own imagination running wild and you putting words into my mouth.

This is what I said:

" If you think that our first and Jong gets it done but that's not a steep price, I think you are sadly wrong."

I said it was my opinion, clearly.

And this was your post that started this discussion. It was not unreasonable of me to assume that you might have some inside information or rumour and I asked if you had a source - you didn't indicate that it was your opinion:

50/50 Goldstein is at the Dogs next year

 

[Igloo]

Goldstein would cost too much and is only a solo ruck, which doesn't suit our side. He's a great player, but can't imagine we'd be interested.

 

[compact72]

Can't see why we would want him when Campbell just signed, have Toyd and Roughead

 

[House_of_Dahl]

50/50 your write

somewhere a grammar nazi is poking the eyes out of kittens.

 

[TedDougChris]

Goldstein would cost too much and is only a solo ruck, which doesn't suit our side. He's a great player, but can't imagine we'd be interested.

Earlier in the year, I would have been keen - but Roughie and Boyd are having increasing impact around the ground and Goldie's output decline significantly in the second part of the year.

There are potential reasons and rumours for this, but at this point I'd prefer a mobile forward/ruck as backup, rather than a dominant solo big man - as we'd need to rejig our preferred structure a bit to accomodate him. Combined with the cap cost and trade cost and I'd prefer to look elsewhere....

If we could somehow assist someone (like the Pies) to get Goldie and have Grundy pop loose to us, then I'm very keen....

 

[Golden_6]

Yeah don't want Goldy, but would like a cheap back up. Rough/Campbell with Boyd as support is more than enough to be successful if this year has taught us anything. It's almost certainly not going to be a deciding factor on the weekend either.

 

[jdz101]

100% Goldstein not at the dogs next year

in my opinion