Strategy Trade and List Management thread 2.(...the waiting for the hammer to fall edition)

[VitalDread]

Going along wth the Hrovat talk, he has taken down his number and team on his twitter handle.
No stopping him now
Really want him to play well, rippa bloke just injuries messed him up

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Please Harold mate

It's cleary an alt mate and why is it allowed when no one else is?? Come on he spends more time talking about us that that rabble he apparently supports.

No problem with him contributing but don't do it hiding behind a fake account

Why do you think it's fake?? Boris is closely involved in our VFL team and hence knows our club well and makes valuable contributions. Not sure what your issue is - but to be fair I don't understand your issues with lots of things...

 

[Cori]

The above may seem overly negative but I'm simply countering your glowing assessment of our key defensive stocks in 2017 and beyond. I think a key defender that is capable of the performances we saw in three out of four finals is extremely hard to replace - and when you're naming relative unknown quantities as the solution it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Oh I agree with you, but before the finals series, Hammer was considered like for like in terms of development with all of our talls. I just don't really have a like for like with Jong. He's a faster, younger Stevens with a higher ceiling.

 

[compact72]

Going along wth the Hrovat talk, he has taken down his number and team on his twitter handle.
No stopping him now
Really want him to play well, rippa bloke just injuries messed him up

Could of kept Hrovat if Hamling was going IMO

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Why do you think it's fake?? Boris is closely involved in our VFL team and hence knows our club well and makes valuable contributions. Not sure what your issue is - but to be fair I don't understand your issues with lots of things...

He probably got smacked for having "alts" of his own and is miffed that somebody else may be getting away with one.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Disagree. Our midfield, indeed our strategy masks the deficiencies in our backline. There's a reason why we are able to continually go in undersized vs other teams. Hamling has done some nice things, and I would hate to see him go. But the fact of the matter is when our midfield is running at full tilt, we completely strangle opposition ball going inside our defensive 50's. Or at least the ball that go in are chaos balls. Pressure kicks and oft high or wayward. Hamling has done some nice jobs 1 on 1 and has shown he can take a grab. But our backline has been a rotating door through injury and form with only Moz the mainstay Key Position player all year I dont see Hamling as more crucial than Jong. Particularly since we are likely to lose Stevens and Hrovat now.

Yeah I wonder if Hamling will do as well at Freo without our system.

 

[jdz101]

When you look at the big picture with hamling we've done a master stroke.

We've taken a delisted and basically worthless asset, seen his potential, won a premiership with his services, and will now probably turn him into a second round pick.

Not too bad for a year or two's work.

 

[Dav1d]

I think your second line is bending the truth a little. Collins was ok this year but his body of work was hardly enough to proclaim him as the answer in the future. He is a young key defender who could become a player, but might not. There isn't enough to suggest that either answer is correct at this point. Adams' early season form was genuinely extraordinary but his output dropped from week to week in my view - I have him in our best side for next year at this stage, but time will tell whether that drop was fatigue or something else. Let's also remember that lingering navicular injuries have ended careers. I have great confidence in Cordy but we have yet to see any of him as a #1/2 key defender at AFL level.

The above may seem overly negative but I'm simply countering your glowing assessment of our key defensive stocks in 2017 and beyond. I think a key defender that is capable of the performances we saw in three out of four finals is extremely hard to replace - and when you're naming relative unknown quantities as the solution it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

That said, who do you think would be a good replacement or at least short term replacement? Until other players developed or we at least could chase someone better. Obviously went for Hurley this year so I expect we'd still look for quality down back, especially now.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Disagree. Our midfield, indeed our strategy masks the deficiencies in our backline. There's a reason why we are able to continually go in undersized vs other teams. Hamling has done some nice things, and I would hate to see him go. But the fact of the matter is when our midfield is running at full tilt, we completely strangle opposition ball going inside our defensive 50's. Or at least the ball that go in are chaos balls. Pressure kicks and oft high or wayward. Hamling has done some nice jobs 1 on 1 and has shown he can take a grab. But our backline has been a rotating door through injury and form with only Moz the mainstay Key Position player all year I dont see Hamling as more crucial than Jong. Particularly since we are likely to lose Stevens and Hrovat now.

I don't disagree with much of this, but where is the tipping point? At what point do our backline deficiencies become so prominent that our midfield can no longer cover them?

It's interesting to note that with Hamling in the side we went 9-3, losing an unlucky one against Hawthorn, getting smashed in the middle against the Cats, and not turning up against the Dockers. Without him we went 6-4. Of course, this is a shallow analysis that shouldn't be considered in isolation - but it is an interesting thing to note I think. I don't believe you can keep taking things out of the area of deficiency to bolster your strength. At some point you have to try to equalise. Taking Hamling out and replacing him with somebody less proven could be that tipping point.

I also don't believe Jong is in our best side. If he is, he's almost the last one picked. Depth is extremely important, particularly in our area of strength, and as I said I'm happy to have kept him - but I struggle to view Jong as being more crucial than Hamling.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong. Somebody else could come in and perform just as well or even better - and let's not forget the possibility that Jong leaving may not have done enough to allow Hamling to stay, either. I'm simply pointing it out as a possibility. We will likely never know the answer to that question.

Should also probably note that I don't think Hamling is a star KPD or anything of the sort. He has benefited from our system and our midfield. He has his deficiencies. I do think he's in our best side, though, and I worry about the effect losing him will have on our backline - particularly if, god forbid, the end comes quicker than we all hope for Morris.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

That said, who do you think would be a good replacement or at least short term replacement? Until other players developed or we at least could chase someone better. Obviously went for Hurley this year so I expect we'd still look for quality down back, especially now.

I have no idea. Frankly I think MacKenzie is a trap and wouldn't be interested. I like Brand but is he ready to slot right in? Maybe. Outside of that there are a lot of, with all due respect, state league scrubs out there, and the ship has probably sailed on a big fish. There aren't a lot of options out there and that is part of the reason I'm concerned about losing Hamling.

 

[Ghenghis]

Going along wth the Hrovat talk, he has taken down his number and team on his twitter handle.
No stopping him now
Really want him to play well, rippa bloke just injuries messed him up

Sad but I guess it's the reality of the game nowadays.
I also hope that wherever he ends up, he plays well and gets lots of game time.
Always thought he was a good footballer rather than athlete and had a lot of leadership potential.
Just too many people ahead of him for his position at the moment.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

How many games did Jong play Vs Hamling this year? I'm guessing Jong played more and don't think Hammer was injured was he? Our back line certainly had a fair few injuries though. Not convinced with the argument that Jong is clearly depth and Hammer wasn't.

 

[Dogsman16]

I have no idea. Frankly I think MacKenzie is a trap and wouldn't be interested. I like Brand but is he ready to slot right in? Maybe. Outside of that there are a lot of, with all due respect, state league scrubs out there, and the ship has probably sailed on a big fish. There aren't a lot of options out there and that is part of the reason I'm concerned about losing Hamling.

Brand ticks the boxes in terms of athleticism, but the key to our defence is not getting sucked into body contact against opposition talls. That's where Hamling was very good.

I haven't seen Brand play enough so I'm interested to see his mindset in that regard.

 

[LittleG]

When you look at the big picture with hamling we've done a master stroke.

We've taken a delisted and basically worthless asset, seen his potential, won a premiership with his services, and will now probably turn him into a second round pick.

Not too bad for a year or two's work.

Looks like we will get offered a third rounder.... Freo offer big money but then crying poor at the trade table!

 

[Doggy]

Brand ticks the boxes in terms of athleticism, but the key to our defence is not getting sucked into body contact against opposition talls. That's where Hamling was very good.

I haven't seen Brand play enough so I'm interested to see his mindset in that regard.

Haven't seen Brand linked to us other than by some Hawthorn poster

 

[Doggy]

Looks like we will get offered a third rounder.... Freo offer big money but then crying poor at the trade table!

They have 34 (which will be 35 soon).

Surely that would be the target

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

How many games did Jong play Vs Hamling this year? I'm guessing Jong played more and don't think Hammer was injured was he? Our back line certainly had a fair few injuries though. Not convinced with the argument that Jong is clearly depth and Hammer wasn't.

16 vs 12, you're correct. But Koby Stevens played 12 games this year and most are actively pushing him out the door. It's not as simple as comparing 2016 game totals. If I'm creating a hypothetical 2017 round one team, Hamling is picked straight after Morris as a key defender. Jong is selected if there's room for another mid/forward rotation after Bontempelli, Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Hunter, Picken, Smith and Dickson, and is in the same conversation as Wallis*, Suckling, Dunkley, McLean, Webb and Daniel.

 

[LittleG]

They have 34 (which will be 35 soon).

Surely that would be the target

It's going to Hawks for Hill.

 

[Doggy]

It's going to Hawks for Hill.

No it's not. The Mayne compensation is.. which will probably be 23

 

[LittleG]

No it's not. The Mayne compensation is.. which will probably be 23

You are happy with pick 34/5 if Hamling leaves?

 

[fronkalicious]

So who else are we tipping out to get a guy like brand?

Even with hamling going, someone else needs to be moved off the main list.

 

[Dav1d]

I have no idea. Frankly I think MacKenzie is a trap and wouldn't be interested. I like Brand but is he ready to slot right in? Maybe. Outside of that there are a lot of, with all due respect, state league scrubs out there, and the ship has probably sailed on a big fish. There aren't a lot of options out there and that is part of the reason I'm concerned about losing Hamling.

How about Tim Mohr?
The big fish would be for next year or following, I think they'd be hugely important to once our veterans out of the backline hang up their boots.

 

[Doggy]

You are happy with pick 34/5 if Hamling leaves?

No other choice

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

So who else are we tipping out to get a guy like brand?

Even with hamling going, someone else needs to be moved off the main list.

Minson, Stevens, Hrovat, Hamling, Prudden. Carlton still actively pursuing Honeychurch as well.

 

[compact72]

So who else are we tipping out to get a guy like brand?

Even with hamling going, someone else needs to be moved off the main list.

Minson
Hamling
Hrovat
Stevens

I think we only need 4?