2017 Non Crows AFL Discussion Thread

[Ramify]

Hird paid the price for his stupidity or whatever some want to call it. But what he did was not a death sentence sometimes we all need to grow and learn to let it go, Unfortunately, some cannot and it leads to what Hird is going thru today,
Again what he did was not worth a death sentence.

Didnt he just get banned from coaching for a bit? Hardly a death sentence, unless of course you mean a self imposed death sentence.

 

[ad victoriam]

Just curious, which countries do you suppose are mature enough for this conversation, and what do you think this conversation should entail?

Don't Know if any country is these days, But Some have reached a level where they can talk and gain a understand between parties. So they can make changes that affect their split populations without the need for a violent confrontation or threats of Violence between so-called peaceful protests.
Can we talk about changing Australia day without a heated debate that will turn violent, Watch the next few weeks there will be protests?
Also look how mature we were and how well we handled Goode being made Australian of the year.
To be Honest Eddie Betts showed more maturity than most in his handling of the Banana incident, and he made me reprise my views on how we should act as an Australian.

 

[ad victoriam]

Didnt he just get banned from coaching for a bit? Hardly a death sentence, unless of course you mean a self imposed death sentence.

Social media, being hounded at every turn, the family being verbally abused. in laymen terms bullied. We treat murderers better than he and his family were treated.
He was a dick and wrong but does he deserve to be hound into a position where he wants out.

 

[GreyCrow]

Social media, being hounded at every turn, the family being verbally abused. in laymen terms bullied. We treat murderers better than he and his family were treated.
He was a dick and wrong but does he deserve to be hound into a position where he wants out.

I will start off by agreeing with your general point, but I will remind you that the public are very forgiving of people who make mistakes and then admit them.

I truly think the underlying animosity towards James and by extension the EFC is this perceived lack of apology for the regime set up. Now I understand the legal ramification of an apology, but most of the general public just want one no matter the cost of compensation that will arise from doing so.

tl;dr: If James had apologized and walked away from the EFC right at the beginning of this saga he would be welcomed back already by the AFL and the public.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Social media, being hounded at every turn, the family being verbally abused. in laymen terms bullied. We treat murderers better than he and his family were treated.
He was a dick and wrong but does he deserve to be hound into a position where he wants out.

Which murderers are treated better?

Don't recall Hird being jailed, but imo should have been.

 

[Ramify]

Don't Know if any country is these days, But Some have reached a level where they can talk and gain a understand between parties. So they can make changes that affect their split populations without the need for a violent confrontation or threats of Violence between so-called peaceful protests.
Can we talk about changing Australia day without a heated debate that will turn violent, Watch the next few weeks there will be protests?
Also look how mature we were and how well we handled Goode being made Australian of the year.
To be Honest Eddie Betts showed more maturity than most in his handling of the Banana incident, and he made me reprise my views on how we should act as an Australian.

Appreciate the reply. I didnt quite understand what you were talking about beforehand.
100% agree with you in regards to your Betts appraisal. I dont think we will ever see a time when there wont exist hotheads at either end of the spectrum, but I do see the middle ground growing. I.e, a greater portion of the community being willing and able to observe and respect opposing points of view.
I Think a potentially dangerous side effect of this growth seems to be the marginalization of those who hold a more "extreme" point of view and this coupled with an ever growing level of exposure through media seems to have artificially magnified the significance of such voices.

 

[Ramify]

Social media, being hounded at every turn, the family being verbally abused. in laymen terms bullied. We treat murderers better than he and his family were treated.
He was a dick and wrong but does he deserve to be hound into a position where he wants out.

Was he really hounded that badly though?
It seems there has been a virtual media blackout on the man since the verdict was handed down. Sure people on the street may give him a bit of shit, but you reap what you sow and he did display a fair level of contempt toward everyone thoughout the affair.
I highly doubt he copped as much shit as those two (Racist slur/bananna) girls did.

I think its very easy to blame everyone else, and James and his crew seem to be masters of it.

 

[ad victoriam]

I will start off by agreeing with your general point, but I will remind you that the public are very forgiving of people who make mistakes and then admit them.

I truly think the underlying animosity towards James and by extension the EFC is this perceived lack of apology for the regime set up. Now I understand the legal ramification of an apology, but most of the general public just want one no matter the cost of compensation that will arise from doing so.

tl;dr: If James had apologized and walked away from the EFC right at the beginning of this saga he would be welcomed back already by the AFL and the public.

The problem is he does not believe he was wrong, so therefore like most Australian in that regards he fought back.
But Like him or Hate him. he does not deserve the abuse he and his family are currently getting.
I also did not nor have ever agreed with what he did I And I believe he should have been banned longer than 1 year. The AFL were soft.

 

[1970crow]

Appreciate the reply. I didnt quite understand what you were talking about beforehand.
100% agree with you in regards to your Betts appraisal. I dont think we will ever see a time when there wont exist hotheads at either end of the spectrum, but I do see the middle ground growing. I.e, a greater portion of the community being willing and able to observe and respect opposing points of view.
I Think a potentially dangerous side effect of this growth seems to be the marginalization of those who hold a more "extreme" point of view and this coupled with an ever growing level of exposure through media seems to have artificially magnified the significance of such voices.

I made a similar point regarding the middle a number of months ago. I'm sure I'm not the only one to make it, but too often it falls on deaf ears. Everytime some complete knob makes a racist ass of him/herself, people decry society and label Australia a country full of casual racists. The lunatic fringe will always exist at either end of any spectrum, the important factor is that the middle grows. These days any form of overt racism is calked out and immediately condemned by casual bystanders. Significant progress has been made by the mainstream who have en masse chosen to not accept and now actively confront racist acts. This is forgotten all too often when some numpty acts like complete idiots do.

 

[Ramify]

The problem is he does not believe he was wrong, so therefore like most Australian in that regards he fought back.
But Like him or Hate him. he does not deserve the abuse he and his family are currently getting.
I also did not nor have ever agreed with what he did I And I believe he should have been banned longer than 1 year. The AFL were soft.

I think most Australians have the capacity to look at themselves and their actions from the outside in and as such would have fallen on their sword like any true leader of men would have done.

 

[ad victoriam]

Was he really hounded that badly though?
It seems there has been a virtual media blackout on the man since the verdict was handed down. Sure people on the street may give him a bit of shit, but you reap what you sew and he did display a fair level of contempt to everyone thoughout the affair.
I highly doubt he copped as much shit as those two (Racist slur/bananna) girls did.

I think its very easy to blame everyone else, and James and his crew seem to be masters of it.

You should read some of the shit on facebook and similar. even reading some of the posts in BF about him and they are very tame.
His house has been vandalised his kids have been abused. His wife blamed for his stance and abused because of it. Shit he was verbally abused by a Judges wife if the media is correct.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You should read some of the shit on facebook and similar. even reading some of the posts in BF about him and they are very tame.
His house has been vandalised his kids have been abused. His wife blamed for his stance and abused because of it. Shit he was verbally abused by a Judges wife if the media is correct.

I'm not condoning the abuse by any means, but what drove people to get so passionate to abuse?

Hird needs to think seriously why his actions have led to such a response if he wants to truly heal himself.

 

[ad victoriam]

I think most Australians have the capacity to look at themselves and their actions from the outside in and as such would have fallen on their sword like any true leader of men would have done.

Any true leader of men would support his men to the End. which is what he did.
And yes he personally would have been better falling on his sword. But that meant running away from his men and leaving them to fend for themselves.
Too many others fell on their swords and left their men behind. They survived without much loss.
Essendon failed the players and Coach, they again Failed the players and coach by the advice they gave them.
Was it just Hird and the Players who refuse the first ban. or was it the advice they received.
All were wrong but it should have been handled years ago not allowed to drag out,

 

[Ramify]

You should read some of the shit on facebook and similar. even reading some of the posts in BF about him and they are very tame.
His house has been vandalised his kids have been abused. His wife blamed for his stance and abused because of it. Shit he was verbally abused by a Judges wife if the media is correct.

You should read some of the shit on facebook and similar. even reading some of the posts in BF about him and they are very tame.
His house has been vandalised his kids have been abused. His wife blamed for his stance and abused because of it. Shit he was verbally abused by a Judges wife if the media is correct.

Oh come on now.
Imagine what my boy J-Beebs or Kimmy K cop on social media sites. Id like to think that the former Captain of one of Victorias biggest clubs was battle hardened enough to have written/vebal insults wash off of his back as easily as the above mentioned celebs.
Didnt seem to phase him enough that it deter him from entering the public spot light again less than a year after the events.

 

[Ozzie]

I will start off by agreeing with your general point, but I will remind you that the public are very forgiving of people who make mistakes and then admit them.

I truly think the underlying animosity towards James and by extension the EFC is this perceived lack of apology for the regime set up. Now I understand the legal ramification of an apology, but most of the general public just want one no matter the cost of compensation that will arise from doing so.

tl;dr: If James had apologized and walked away from the EFC right at the beginning of this saga he would be welcomed back already by the AFL and the public.

This is exactly the way I feel about it all. There has been no hint of an apology from any of the main players concerned. Thompson just shrugs his shoulders as if to say. "I don't care". Dimwit aided and abetted their watered down punishment. What do the rest of the footy fans get...SFA. That's what!
I'm glad Hird never died but I feel nothing more than that for him.

 

[ad victoriam]

I'm not condoning the abuse by any means, but what drove people to get so passionate to abuse?

Hird needs to think seriously why his actions have led to such a response if he wants to truly heal himself.

Yes he does and one day hopefully with good advice he may. And Finally it would be put to bed.
But we that is all of us need to look at this and understand just how dangerous social media is.
I dislike it because you cannot grab hold of it and look it in the eye. But I am old school.

 

[Ramify]

Any true leader of men would support his men to the End. which is what he did.
And yes he personally would have been better falling on his sword. But that meant running away from his men and leaving them to fend for themselves.
Too many others fell on their swords and left their men behind. They survived without much loss.
Essendon failed the players and Coach, they again Failed the players and coach by the advice they gave them.
Was it just Hird and the Players who refuse the first ban. or was it the advice they received.
All were wrong but it should have been handled years ago not allowed to drag out,

Oh, so we arent talking about the same leader of men who knowingly allowed said men to be guinea pigs all in the name of success?
He and his ego alone lead them into the fire, then basically threw petrol on the flames.
These arent some galant soldiers on a war field, these are a group of lads who got busted trying to bend the rules and Hird was the one pushing them to do so.

Nothing at all valient in Hirds actions, no matter how you try to paint the picture.

 

[jenny61_99]

Hird paid the price for his stupidity or whatever some want to call it. But what he did was not a death sentence sometimes we all need to grow and learn to let it go, Unfortunately, some cannot and it leads to what Hird is going thru today,
Again what he did was not worth a death sentence.

Allowing experimental drugs to be injected in your players could have been a death sentence for them though.

Hird would not be in this position today if he'd taken responsibility - and meant it - from the get go. All the litigation dragged it out to an almost four year saga. This could have been over and done with like Cronulla's if it weren't for ego.

 

[ad victoriam]

Oh come on now.
Imagine what my boy J-Beebs or Kimmy K cop on social media sites. Id like to think that the former Captain of one of Victorias biggest clubs was battle hardened enough to have written/vebal insults wash off of his back as easily as the above mentioned celebs.
Didnt seem to phase him enough that it deter him from entering the public spot light again less than a year after the events.

But remember we are talking about a proud man who since his facial injury cannot sleep at night without help. All of a sudden watching his family abused and unable to do damn thing.
How would you react if your kids were being abused and you could do nothing?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yes he does and one day hopefully with good advice he may. And Finally it would be put to bed.
But we that is all of us need to look at this and understand just how dangerous social media is.
I dislike it because you cannot grab hold of it and look it in the eye. But I am old school.

The best thing Hird could have done is ignored social media... as there are all sorts of crazies out there.

 

[GreyCrow]

But remember we are talking about a proud man who since his facial injury cannot sleep at night without help. All of a sudden watching his family abused and unable to do damn thing.
How would you react if your kids were being abused and you could do nothing?

Turn the computer off.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

But remember we are talking about a proud man who since his facial injury cannot sleep at night without help. All of a sudden watching his family abused and unable to do damn thing.
How would you react if your kids were being abused and you could do nothing?

Hird's actions of fighting & refusing to apologise has effectively dragged his own family through year's of this saga.

He is responsible for dragging this out - no one else!

 

[ad victoriam]

Allowing experimental drugs to be injected in your players could have been a death sentence for them though.

Hird would not be in this position today if he'd taken responsibility - and meant it - from the get go. All the litigation dragged it out to an almost four year saga. This could have been over and done with like Cronulla's if it weren't for ego.

He was not the only one who refuse to admit any guilt.
And yes the advice they were giving was shit.
Also remember I am not condoning what he did and I believe the AFL at the time was piss weak and bias. Even more so for what they did to the Crows at the same time yet this was a far worse situation.
But He does not deserve to be vilified in social media by keyboard warriors, and his family does not.

 

[Ramify]

But remember we are talking about a proud man who since his facial injury cannot sleep at night without help. All of a sudden watching his family abused and unable to do damn thing.
How would you react if your kids were being abused and you could do nothing?

Geez AdVic, you are pulling out some dooZies now mate.
You are really trying to paint a picture here for some reason. It doesnt wash with me, but if it helps you sleep at night then Im not going to try to convince you otherwise.

 

[ad victoriam]

Turn the computer off.

OK but it not that easy. can you turn the computer off, the Phone off, the paper off, stop your kids from attending school, not visit anyone in public,