Analysis The Keeffe training experiment thread

[Saintly Viewed]

Too much angst about Keeffe in my view.

It's his height (in my view) that will always give him every chance of being AFL standard and given opportunities.

If he trains forward, meh, so what can it hurt him? If anything, He will learn forward aspects that must surely assist when he inevitably plays back.

Doing some ruck work is worth pursuing as assistance for say 5 mins here and there which can only be of benefit to Grundy during his small rest times.

Now to Keeffe being upgraded to seniors?
Again I understand it.
It's his size and flexibility that simply means he's in front of the queue of other rookie listed players.
I get Apex's view, though I'm also understanding the faith of his upgrade.
He (to me) is an important key to our improvement (if it happens).

He's had two years out of the system, that's the great unknown.

Until we see where he is at, I for one am hopeful, he adds something to us.
To me, I'd see him as a key back (full back) in our best side - so simply, in my view he's potential best 22
and certainly in the mix.

 

[Old Spice]

pre-season

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Remember the melt when Fas played a game simulation session cross half-back?

 

[Apex36]

Your knickers are in a twist because Keeffe was placed on the rookie list and not kept there.

Point being that due to the ASADA suspension that was as far as the Pies could go.

He was a senior listed player who was forced to standout of the game for two seasons, the club put him on as a rookie in 2016 as it was all they could do...and it gave them first dibs on returning him to the senior list prior to the open slather national draft where other clubs could have picked him up.

As soon as he was eligible to return to the senior list, the club immediately added him back.

You have instead ran off and created some alternate reality all based on Keeffe being on the rookie list...something that was just a token gesture by the club during the ASADA suspension.

Your obsession with Keeffe as a rookie is odd.

The exact same could have been said of Thomas. The only one creating an alternate reality here is you pretending that Thomas was in line for delisting before the ban as justification for him not being promoted alongside Keeffe.

Criticizing the club for pulling the trigger early on upgrading Keeffe is not creating an alternate reality, it's just using common sense. None of what you've written in any of your posts so far is legitimate justification as to why Keeffe couldn't have been upgraded later, they're just lame excuses defending the club for doing something that didn't need to be done so early. I already stated my position in my first post on this thread. Stop dragging me in to your delusional world where upgrading Keeffe early was necessary and Thomas was kept on the rookie list out of pity.

 

[Scodog10]

IMO, a discussion on a pre-season move being discussed in a pre-season thread that gets maybe one training report a week didn't deserve its own thread. I have my doubts, but like all moves I disagree with I hope it works!

Edit: Apex36 doppleganger let it go. I enjoy a feisty discussion as much as anyone, but taking it across two threads (albeit on the same topic) is a bit much. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that neither is likely to dissuade the other of their view so maybe its time to agree to disagree

 

[Apex36]

IMO, a discussion on a pre-season move being discussed in a pre-season thread that gets maybe one training report a week didn't deserve its own thread. I have my doubts, but like all moves I disagree with I hope it works!

Edit: Apex36 doppleganger let it go. I enjoy a feisty discussion as much as anyone, but taking it across two threads (albeit on the same topic) is a bit much. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that neither is likely to dissuade the other of their view so maybe its time to agree to disagree

I tried mate, but he tagged me in a post putting words in my mouth. I don't have to put up with that.

 

[partypie]

It's a great worry that Keeffe is being considered as a key player this year.

Had a cool head at times and his short dinky kicks were very accurate, so as a back he has some cred.

I still can't get those couple of games in the latter half of the 2014 season where he completed lost the plot out of my head. Never seen a total meltdown like that from a player so I hope he has developed a bit of mental and emotional resilience while he has been away from football.

 

[Justlokan]

Remember the melt when Fas played a game simulation session cross half-back?

it is the offseason. What else would be talk about?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

it is the offseason. What else would be talk about?

Talking = Yes
Melt = Nuff Nuffs

 

[THATSGOLD]

Don't rate him. Never rated him. Would've been delisted or traded by now if he didn't get banned two years ago. Nathan Brown much better.

 

[doppleganger]

The exact same could have been said of Thomas. The only one creating an alternate reality here is you pretending that Thomas was in line for delisting before the ban as justification for him not being promoted alongside Keeffe.

The difference is that Keeffe was a regular in the best 22, and plays a role that we are weak in.

Thomas never established himself in the best 22 like Keeffe, and is a sub 180cm mid...we are spoilt for choice with mids.

You need to ignore the fact that either were on the rookie list in 2016, they were not active participants. It was Collingwood showing the two support during their ASADA suspension.

Keeffe automatically back on the senior list at first oppirtunity, as he is deemed a more valuable proposition. Putting him as a rookie meant we didnt have to re-draft him.

Josh given a lifeline as a rookie, more than plenty would have done following the suspension.

There was never any intention for Keeffe to be a rookie, he is viewed highly by the coaching group....despite him being a bell end

 

[pablo disco bar]

Don't put words in my mouth, that's complete garbage. I never had any issue with Keeffe or Thomas being retained as rookies, and I challenge you to find a post I made saying I did.

Too many posts to look

 

[pablo disco bar]

I reckon josh thomas may surprise a few on here

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

In the box, when a positional move is proposed, one argument against a player moving to another position up the other end of the ground is "Yeah nah, we haven't trained him up for that position." Happens at VFL so it's possible that it has filtered down.
As for Keefe as a player, didn't stand out as anything special to me.

 

[Horaceg]

Remember the melt when Fas played a game simulation session cross half-back?

Still taking my medication

 

[Horaceg]

I reckon josh thomas may surprise a few on here

Hopefully he has spent 2 years busting his arse to be cherry ripe

 

[loki04]

He's a slow lumbering backman with a good kick and footy brain.

I think he's a bit soft, and like Jessie white as a result struggles to mark

Yep too soft for a fwd or ruck, needs a mind set change if he is to have a chance in either role. He is part of the "head duckers are us" club as forward.

Physically he has the tools, so it is not out of the realms of possibility he can turn it around but he needs to a learn better leading patterns b)attack the contest with more physicality and less care for self c) lead more often to command more ball and make space for others.

 

[Mongo Ming]

If (god forbid) Ben Reid went down with injury, interested to see who you would put in as his replacement on a Hawkins/Patton/Tippett type in order out of these three? (I've left out McLarty et al based on lack of exposed form).

There were some pitchforks out when we recruited Dunn but do you see him as a more viable option than Keefe at 12cm shorter? Is Schade up to it at only 89 kegs?:

Keefe 204 cm 99 kg
Dunn 192 cm 95 kg
Schade 196 cm 89 kg

 

[Apex36]

If (god forbid) Ben Reid went down with injury, interested to see who you would put in as his replacement on a Hawkins/Patton/Tippett type in order out of these three? (I've left out McLarty et al based on lack of exposed form).

There were some pitchforks out when we recruited Dunn but do you see him as a more viable option than Keefe at 12cm shorter? Is Schade up to it at only 81 kegs?:

Keefe 204 cm 99 kg
Dunn 192 cm 95 kg
Schade 196 cm 81 kg

Schade is listed on the club website as 197cm and 89kg

 

[Mongo Ming]

Schade is listed on the club website as 197cm and 89kg

EFA>That's what I get for trusting Wikipedia..doh

 

[mike123]

If (god forbid) Ben Reid went down with injury, interested to see who you would put in as his replacement on a Hawkins/Patton/Tippett type in order out of these three? (I've left out McLarty et al based on lack of exposed form).

There were some pitchforks out when we recruited Dunn but do you see him as a more viable option than Keefe at 12cm shorter? Is Schade up to it at only 89 kegs?:

Keefe 204 cm 99 kg
Dunn 192 cm 95 kg
Schade 196 cm 89 kg

Ben Reid shouldn't be playing on Hawkins Patton or Tippett in the first place.

 

[well left]

I figured Keeffe's best way back into the team was in the back 6 so for them to be training him throughout the preseason as a forward means they have a fair amount of confidence is Dunn, Schade and probably Goldsack to assist Reid down back.

We don't have a plethora of tall forwards either so it's worth testing him out in the pre-season to see if he can adapt and play forward. We know he played back to a decent level so if one of the key backs does fall over or start to fail we can swing him back.

Still think we should have been chasing another mature tall alongside Dunn in the trade period knowing we were showing Cloke, Frost and Brown the door (I know he was a FA but he walked cos we let him) and having Marsh leave as well. I'm not counting Gault.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Remember the melt when Fas played a game simulation session cross half-back?

 

[Quicky]

It's advantageous to have a key defender of 200cm in height. One who has shown bona fides for the role. To my knowledge we're the only other team in the comp with that. Meanwhile there are plenty of teams with forwards in that height range. It's a pretty good option to have.

 

[PepperFace]

I am still scarred by him playing forward in an elimination final v Port Adelaide in 2012 (or 2013). He looked absolutly rubbish then as he cannot mark overhead. Bottom 4 here we come