Ultimate Glory Welcome to Hawthorn, Jaeger O'Meara

[Strapping Young Lad]

All you guys doing a review of the trade, and calling it as "we overpaid, it's undeniable".....it's June FFS!

 

[NICE1]

Is it possible we were so willing to part ways with picks this year because we didn't rate the draft strongly?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Is it possible we were so willing to part ways with picks this year because we didn't rate the draft strongly?

I think you might be onto something.

The unknown for us is how our system develops key players. Beteeen 08 and 15 we say those peripheral players develop superbly with 2nd, 3rd and 4th round draft picks: Shiels, smith, hill, breust, Gunston, stratton, puopolo.

Now we need to develop some guys who can carry key forward, key back and star midfielder roles rather than support crew.

Any back to omeara - looking forward to him building as the season progresses. Really looking forward to it

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Is it possible we were so willing to part ways with picks this year because we didn't rate the draft strongly?

Perhaps.

It might have something to do with the academy and F/S kids too....maybe. Hard to know.

I'd say though it had more to do with getting two elite talents into the club, rather then going into the draft and hoping the picks turned out ok.


Known talent >>> speculative talent.

We've traded out two first rounders, but instead of hoping and praying those two 18yr olds turn out to be good players, we went straight for 2x 23yr olds who have shown their talents at AFL level. We literally cut away 5 years of developing and finger crossing, and in the instance of Tom have immediately seen the reward.
JOM obviously has a cloud over him at the minute, but I'd still do that trade tomorrow and back our guys in to make him another success story like we had with Burgoyne.

Getting those two in was a no-brainer for a side who still have players like Gunston, Rioli, Bruest, Smith in their prime(although they've all been down at various times this year) and youngsters coming through quickly like Burton and Sicily(and now Hardwick and O'Brien).

 

[Alley oops]

After the weekend result I wondered how you guys would be feeling about the O'Meara trade.

On the face of it, giving up 2, 20, 23 & 36 over two drafts looks to be well overs but I watched O'Meara play as an 18yo and he was special, you guys just need to give him time to come good.

Also look at the full picture, you gave up 2, 14, 20, 23 & 36 for Mitchell and O'Meara. You probably got shafted by GC with O'Meara but Swans gave you a bargain with Mitchell.

St.Kilda are the real bandits here, gave up pick 10 for picks 2, 23 & 26 - nice.

Not all doom & gloom, we got pinged four top picks for Tippettgate and right now things looking great. You probably need to keep all your better players and just rely on growth from within and getting lucky with late draft picks and rookies and injuries!

Except that GC shafted themselves even before our decline. Our first pick next year was always going for JOM whatever it was. As noted above the draft is only one facet of building a team, heavily corrupted and diluted as it is now. Whenever I need comforting as to no top picks I look at the cliche stories of Carlton and the Saints but even more so note that Turnbull who backed the pick for Hodge was sacked mainly for doing so. Easy to forget after the brilliant career he has had. It's a lottery, even when you don't know you've won it till later. Love to have a top pick but not the end of the world if we don't. Kudos to Adelaide for the way they have navigated through the turmoil.

 

[tige19]

I can see how the club is looking at our future and the reasons we went so hard for Jags. Don't we have a possible top 10-20 pick in one of the Langfords as a father son next year? We finally get some rewards from the draft table and he is really just given to us, having this Langford with Tom and Jags with a support cast of JOR/Shiels/Cousins and no doubt a quality FA is looking brilliant for the future.

There's a lot to play out and whilst I'm finding harder and harder to see this becoming a successful deal, you can absolutely see the reasoning as to why we went hard.

 

[eldorado]

Don't we have a possible top 10-20 pick in one of the Langfords as a father son next year?

Don't know if he's shaping up that well, and may not be that interested in football. Certainly not looking like a pick any scout would have in their top 50.

Changkuoth Jiath is the one we may get for a bit of a bargain next year, via academy

 

[kirbatron]

Perhaps.

It might have something to do with the academy and F/S kids too....maybe. Hard to know.

I'd say though it had more to do with getting two elite talents into the club, rather then going into the draft and hoping the picks turned out ok.


Known talent >>> speculative talent.

We've traded out two first rounders, but instead of hoping and praying those two 18yr olds turn out to be good players, we went straight for 2x 23yr olds who have shown their talents at AFL level. We literally cut away 5 years of developing and finger crossing, and in the instance of Tom have immediately seen the reward.
JOM obviously has a cloud over him at the minute, but I'd still do that trade tomorrow and back our guys in to make him another success story like we had with Burgoyne.

Getting those two in was a no-brainer for a side who still have players like Gunston, Rioli, Bruest, Smith in their prime(although they've all been down at various times this year) and youngsters coming through quickly like Burton and Sicily(and now Hardwick and O'Brien).

agree with this... what will be interesting is to see if the club change its list strategy over next 12-24mths

 

[TallyHawk]

After the weekend result I wondered how you guys would be feeling about the O'Meara trade.

On the face of it, giving up 2, 20, 23 & 36 over two drafts looks to be well overs but I watched O'Meara play as an 18yo and he was special, you guys just need to give him time to come good.

Also look at the full picture, you gave up 2, 14, 20, 23 & 36 for Mitchell and O'Meara. You probably got shafted by GC with O'Meara but Swans gave you a bargain with Mitchell.

St.Kilda are the real bandits here, gave up pick 10 for picks 2, 23 & 26 - nice.

Not all doom & gloom, we got pinged four top picks for Tippettgate and right now things looking great. You probably need to keep all your better players and just rely on growth from within and getting lucky with late draft picks and rookies and injuries!

I don't begrudge Saints they enabled us to get the trade with GC done. Hard to be mad when they traded Ben McEvoy who was a piece of the premiership puzzle. From that trade Savage is no great loss and Acres whilst capable hasn't become elite.

We need to focus on the long game.


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[TallyHawk]

Is it possible we were so willing to part ways with picks this year because we didn't rate the draft strongly?

There are quite a few questioning the quality of this years draft, a few of the speculative top picks have been less than inspiring. It happens, we must trust Wrighty.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Adebisi]

I wonder if Jaeger stayed at GC this year and had the same issues with his knee, what value he would have had at the end of this season? What would the clib give to GC after 3 largely wasted years...

 

[Rioli magic]

People live in the now with no consideration/concept of the future.

Disagree, most people on Bigfooty are experts on the future, they tell me exactly what is going to happen in the future all the time.

Anytime you invest in anything in life and the investment doesn't pay dividends as you like then you get concerned, when the investment doesn't make it out of 1st base at its infancy it's hard to imagine it maturing.

My old man and a few friends spent quite a bit of cash on a colt, they went to the sales with a trainer, picked up a beautifully bred Lohnro boy out of stakes winning mare however when being broken in he showed some sligh ligament damage. Trainer and staff said not a worry, 6 months in the paddock on a restricted training program with regular physio and we've got a bargain.

2 years later, dozens of break downs and 100s of thousand dollars later he is now a pet for one of the stakeholders kids.

Moral of the story, JOM isn't to different to a race horse and like those that invest in horses, a lot of the time they don't make the race track. No-one can deny the deal is looking extremely unfavourable at present, and the problem a large amount of supporters have is the total investment made by the club, that's what really puts this deal in the spot light.

Whether the liberal group of posters on this board like it or not the footy club brought the heat on them themselves. The one thing I am gathering from this thread is every single damn poster is desperate for Jags to have a successful career, that's not in question, what's in question and what is being dissected is the amount that we needed to give up to facilitate it.

I guess if you want to compare your old man and his mates to Clarkson, Wright and Co.

...anyway what did you do with the colt?

 

[Hawkas1988]

I don't know what's worse/more annoying to read.

Reading the posters claiming it will be the worst trade ever etc and we are screwed for years to come

Or the posters that claim draft picks are a lottery and who cares that we will miss pick 2, 3 4 or whatever it may end up being

Both sets of supporters are as bad as each other.

Firstly this is half a season into this trade. How anyone can claim this will be the worst trade in our history or that it will cripple us etc is beyond me. Give it time!! Then make judgements but don't make out like JOM is done and dusted and we will never get anything out of him and we are screwed etc. Ridiculous.

Secondly the other supporters who are just as bad who claim that for every Bontempelli or Josh Kelly that there is a Kosi or a Cale Morton or whatever. This argument is so poor. Look at where Hodge, Buddy, Lewis, Roughead, Burgoyne, Birchall and Cyril came from in their draft. We were a powerhouse primarily due to the elite talent we got through early picks.

Yes we got it wrong sometimes with Ellis and Dowler but when you nail it a few times like Buddy Cyril Rough etc then that's usually all you need to propel up the ladder. Along with good management etc. There is still luck involved but to suggest that missing out on pick 2 or 3 isn't going to hurt the club is just as ridiculous as claiming JOM won't come good. Look at our best young kid in Burton. Late 1st rounder who was touted a top 5 pick pre injury.

Sick of seeing both extreme sides of this. Some balanced discussion would be nice. Or just leave the "omg we are screwed JOM is stuffed" and the "who cares drafts are just a lottery anyway...kosi ellis blah blah blah" out of it as both are as stupid as the other.

Rant over.

On topic love you JOM, do what's necessary to get yourself right and can't wait to see you back out there

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[bigbuddyboy]

Perhaps.

It might have something to do with the academy and F/S kids too....maybe. Hard to know.

I'd say though it had more to do with getting two elite talents into the club, rather then going into the draft and hoping the picks turned out ok.


Known talent >>> speculative talent.

We've traded out two first rounders, but instead of hoping and praying those two 18yr olds turn out to be good players, we went straight for 2x 23yr olds who have shown their talents at AFL level. We literally cut away 5 years of developing and finger crossing, and in the instance of Tom have immediately seen the reward.
JOM obviously has a cloud over him at the minute, but I'd still do that trade tomorrow and back our guys in to make him another success story like we had with Burgoyne.

Getting those two in was a no-brainer for a side who still have players like Gunston, Rioli, Bruest, Smith in their prime(although they've all been down at various times this year) and youngsters coming through quickly like Burton and Sicily(and now Hardwick and O'Brien).

By my calculations, JOM has had a cloud over him for 2.75 years. It's a bloody long 'minute'. Also, given his injury history, I don't think you can state that JOM is a 'known quantity' rather an an unknown quantity and is therefore more valuable than a speculative draft pick. JOM was very speculative. We took a clear risk. A big risk.

But, i am happy the club took that risk, however speculative it was. Through sustained success and the introduction of the new clubs, we haven't had access to top line 18 y/o talent. The hawks had to get creative and had to take a few risks - we aren't going to die wondering.

Sure, in a couple of years we might look back and think that in hindsight it wasn't the best trade; however, it's the sort of move that has previously proved fruitful for our club (Burger, Dew, Gibbo, Hale all raised eyebrows at the time).

I'm comfortable with the club going for it. i hope (if this trade ends badly) that it doesn't result with us becoming a bit more timid in our attempts to expedite our rebuild.

 

[threesixpio]

I don't know what's worse/more annoying to read.

Reading the posters claiming it will be the worst trade ever etc and we are screwed for years to come

Or the posters that claim draft picks are a lottery and who cares that we will miss pick 2, 3 4 or whatever it may end up being

Both sets of supporters are as bad as each other.

Firstly this is half a season into this trade. How anyone can claim this will be the worst trade in our history or that it will cripple us etc is beyond me. Give it time!! Then make judgements but don't make out like JOM is done and dusted and we will never get anything out of him and we are screwed etc. Ridiculous.

Secondly the other supporters who are just as bad who claim that for every Bontempelli or Josh Kelly that there is a Kosi or a Cale Morton or whatever. This argument is so poor. Look at where Hodge, Buddy, Lewis, Roughead, Burgoyne, Birchall and Cyril came from in their draft. We were a powerhouse primarily due to the elite talent we got through early picks.

Yes we got it wrong sometimes with Ellis and Dowler but when you nail it a few times like Buddy Cyril Rough etc then that's usually all you need to propel up the ladder. Along with good management etc. There is still luck involved but to suggest that missing out on pick 2 or 3 isn't going to hurt the club is just as ridiculous as claiming JOM won't come good. Look at our best young kid in Burton. Late 1st rounder who was touted a top 5 pick pre injury.

Sick of seeing both extreme sides of this. Some balanced discussion would be nice. Or just leave the "omg we are screwed JOM is stuffed" and the "who cares drafts are just a lottery anyway...kosi ellis blah blah blah" out of it as both are as stupid as the other.

Rant over.

On topic love you JOM, do what's necessary to get yourself right and can't wait to see you back out there

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

I've abstained really well from posting in this thread and you go and ruin it by posting something awesome.

You are dead to me.

 

[tige19]

Disagree, most people on Bigfooty are experts on the future, they tell me exactly what is going to happen in the future all the time.



I guess if you want to compare your old man and his mates to Clarkson, Wright and Co.

...anyway what did you do with the colt?

He is actually in the barn of one of the syndicate holders place.. his kids get use out of him, gelded now of course. Everyone was a bit shattered he didn't get to the race track

 

[tige19]

Don't know if he's shaping up that well, and may not be that interested in football. Certainly not looking like a pick any scout would have in their top 50.

Changkuoth Jiath is the one we may get for a bit of a bargain next year, via academy

That's a shame, quite a few where raving about him.

 

[threesixpio]

By my calculations, JOM has had a cloud over him for 2.75 years. It's a bloody long 'minute'. Also, given his injury history, I don't think you can state that JOM is a 'known quantity' rather an an unknown quantity and is therefore more valuable than a speculative draft pick. JOM was very speculative. We took a clear risk. A big risk.

But, i am happy the club took that risk, however speculative it was. Through sustained success and the introduction of the new clubs, we haven't had access to top line 18 y/o talent. The hawks had to get creative and had to take a few risks - we aren't going to die wondering.

Sure, in a couple of years we might look back and think that in hindsight it wasn't the best trade; however, it's the sort of move that has previously proved fruitful for our club (Burger, Dew, Gibbo, Hale all raised eyebrows at the time).

I'm comfortable with the club going for it. i hope (if this trade ends badly) that it doesn't result with us becoming a bit more timid in our attempts to expedite our rebuild.

Interesting angle and this is where the whinging posters need to take note. They're just as likely to have said (if we didn't go for him) "How conservative are we! We will never rebuild with such an approach!"

 

[threesixpio]

That's a shame, quite a few where raving about him.

I'm excited about Changa (too early for a nickname?)

FFS we need some run in this team

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

By my calculations, JOM has had a cloud over him for 2.75 years. It's a bloody long 'minute'. Also, given his injury history, I don't think you can state that JOM is a 'known quantity' rather an an unknown quantity and is therefore more valuable than a speculative draft pick. JOM was very speculative. We took a clear risk. A big risk.

He played in the preseason and early games though.

And of course JOM is a known quantity, it's the very reason Hawthorn met with him, looked into his injury, had him down to Waverely, told him they could get him right and then paid the price for him.

If you think we jumped through the hoops that ******** kept throwing at us to get a player who we weren't super confident on I probably can't convince you, but I think you're being a little naive about the level of due diligence we did on JOM, and the professionalism of the people we have in key sports medicine roles if you think we just took a risk on someone who looked ok prior to injury.

 

[Hodginator]

This thread:

 

[crazywildhorse]

I wonder if Jaeger stayed at GC this year and had the same issues with his knee, what value he would have had at the end of this season? What would the clib give to GC after 3 largely wasted years...

He'd be playing sore and not doing a mid year training block. He would probably be going at it with similar output to what we saw in his first 4 games. GC would still have demanded a first rounder and player claiming it was a great step forward but would have also successfully shaved a couple of years off his career.

 

[Davo23]

I don't know what's worse/more annoying to read.

Reading the posters claiming it will be the worst trade ever etc and we are screwed for years to come

Or the posters that claim draft picks are a lottery and who cares that we will miss pick 2, 3 4 or whatever it may end up being

Both sets of supporters are as bad as each other.

Firstly this is half a season into this trade. How anyone can claim this will be the worst trade in our history or that it will cripple us etc is beyond me. Give it time!! Then make judgements but don't make out like JOM is done and dusted and we will never get anything out of him and we are screwed etc. Ridiculous.

Secondly the other supporters who are just as bad who claim that for every Bontempelli or Josh Kelly that there is a Kosi or a Cale Morton or whatever. This argument is so poor. Look at where Hodge, Buddy, Lewis, Roughead, Burgoyne, Birchall and Cyril came from in their draft. We were a powerhouse primarily due to the elite talent we got through early picks.

Yes we got it wrong sometimes with Ellis and Dowler but when you nail it a few times like Buddy Cyril Rough etc then that's usually all you need to propel up the ladder. Along with good management etc. There is still luck involved but to suggest that missing out on pick 2 or 3 isn't going to hurt the club is just as ridiculous as claiming JOM won't come good. Look at our best young kid in Burton. Late 1st rounder who was touted a top 5 pick pre injury.

Sick of seeing both extreme sides of this. Some balanced discussion would be nice. Or just leave the "omg we are screwed JOM is stuffed" and the "who cares drafts are just a lottery anyway...kosi ellis blah blah blah" out of it as both are as stupid as the other.

Rant over.

On topic love you JOM, do what's necessary to get yourself right and can't wait to see you back out there

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Very good post!

Only one issue: Xavier Ellis was great in the 2008 premiership, so that's not a bust in my eyes.

 

[bigbuddyboy]

He played in the preseason and early games though.

And of course JOM is a known quantity, it's the very reason Hawthorn met with him, looked into his injury, had him down to Waverely, told him they could get him right and then paid the price for him.

If you think we jumped through the hoops that ******** kept throwing at us to get a player who we weren't super confident on I probably can't convince you, but I think you're being a little naive about the level of due diligence we did on JOM, and the professionalism of the people we have in key sports medicine roles if you think we just took a risk on someone who looked ok prior to injury.

OK sure he played some early games in the pre-season but I think it's fairly clear he has been under an injury cloud for longer than just the last month or two.

I think, by definition, not playing a senior game for 2.5 years makes you a speculative pick.

Look i think you've potentially misunderstood here. I am not saying Hawthorn didn't do the required due diligence in the JOM trade at all, nor am i inferring it. I am saying that they took a calculated risk after having all the available information. There's nothing wrong with that and, in fact, i am supportive of the JOM trade. Being diligent and taking a (calculated) risk are not mutually exclusive at all.

The whole argument of my post was: that the JOM trade was inherently risky, with more 'what ifs' than other regular trades as exemplified by what we paid for him - if there were no 'what ifs' or unknowns, ie if he was going to get back to his best, what we gave up for him is about 50% of his value. However, it's exactly the sort of left-field moves we need to make as a footy club.

Anyway, here's to JOM. God speed in your recovery. hopefully this thread soon turns to one of overwhelming positivity once a few games are into him.

 

[A Cut Above]

yeah that's still crap
people were saying the same about Burgers when he missed the first 8 rounds, and again at the end of the year when we were out of finals
people where bagging Gibbo when he missed 12 weeks with a hammy

People bagged Hale until the 2012 finals and then again on and off

People bagged Lake for half his first season at least

People were still bagging Frawley end of 2015 when we played him forward

everyone wants to rush to grade the deal

it's the nature of the beast with the media giving draft grades before a player has had a single game at AFL level let alone 50

we get revised drafts based on player performance not club needs

that kind of hysterical, possibly the worst trade ever goes along with the worst quarter or game I've ever seen crap

Go back to 2013-15 and you see plenty of crap calling doom on the Hawks that turned out to be bullshit

give it time is all I am saying, take a chill pill. Have your reservations but articulate them without overly emotive crap

People also bagged the decision to recruit Dayle Garlett and look how that turned out. The club does not always get it right, and lamenting the bad calls it occasionally makes is not a direct assault on the club despite what some here may think.

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about JOM if he comes good and dominates the way we all hope, but all the evidence to this point suggests that is less rather than more likely to occur. The price we paid for him given this year's likely ladder position was/is also obscenely high regardless of how he performs and that is something that unfortunately won't change. I'm not about to pretend the price was reasonable just because I hope to see him accomplish great things in a Hawthorn jumper, exactly what would that accomplish?