Ultimate Glory Welcome to Hawthorn, Jaeger O'Meara

[Fetnarr]

Thanks for the response mate.

My question is though, was the pursuit of JOM really a calculated risk? Was it more arrogance from our end that we believed our medicos are that far advanced of the Suns medicos that we could do essentially what they couldn't? Let's be real, all clubs have elite docs/high performances staff and physios, most of which have gone through a decade of education and up-skilling. If the available evidence suggested that Jags was subject to regular break downs (as was the case at the GC) when loading that knee, why did we think we could work a magic wand and get him 100%?

We worked wonders in the past with players, we have fixed hamstrings, ACL's, Achilles and shoulders, however from reading what I have about Patellas this is an extremely diverse, difficult, intricate and rare injury. I don't think in the history of our club we have had this type of injury to deal with? So, was it a touch of arrogance in the belief that we could buck the history trend of Jags or was it a genuine, whole heartedly belief that there would be no medium/long term risk in bringing him to the club?

I can assure you the Suns medico's are no where near the level of the Hawks. They have improved over the last 12-24 months but prior to that they were pretty ordinary. They had fantastic medical staff for their first couple of years but decided to change them up after 2-3 years and I think they actually went backwards in the following years. New crew there now seem to be doing a better job. I honestly reckon it was the biggest reason he left.

 

[eldorado]

Except of course
Remember this
Wasn't whinging,
Taking piss.

Having sooks is fun of course
It's how me make our day
O'Meara cannot use the force
The cause of some dismay

I do not like these sad complaints
of green eggs and hams and bacons
I do not like them evermore
I don't! O'Rourke Awakens.

 

[Todman]

I'm beginning to wonder whether the trading to get Yaeger will be compared against the Pitura trade and the Neville Fields for Danihers in the Seventies.

 

[tige19]

I can't give you a definitive answer as I'm not in the club. However, Russell isn't your average high performance manager. He is the best of the best. He has two more premierships than Clarko and an incredible record getting players on the park. There are misses along the way but also he is working with human beings who have differing interests in their own recovery. I know they talked to jom's surgeon and I know structurally he is sound. I confident they made a rational decision based on the latest research and best medical advice. It's all we can ask. It will certainly suck if he doesn't ever get back to full capability but I'm sure we will adapt and recover.

This is a brilliant response, thank you. I think if people on here could discuss the topic like you do then there would be far less jabbing going on from both sides, I like the part where you say that AR has 2 more premierships than Clarko and a history of success (albeit with some misses) at getting players up, we know he is brilliant and I don't think that is in question.

I would be interested to know if AR has ever in his career had to rehabilitate a patella? I have done a damn lot of reading today regarding this injury and it is one that the richest sporting clubs in the world have struggled to get there players back from, this is certainly one injury that AR will be up to his eye balls in, in terms of difficulty.

 

[Brishawk]

This is a brilliant response, thank you. I think if people on here could discuss the topic like you do then there would be far less jabbing going on from both sides, I like the part where you say that AR has 2 more premierships than Clarko and a history of success (albeit with some misses) at getting players up, we know he is brilliant and I don't think that is in question.

I would be interested to know if AR has ever in his career had to rehabilitate a patella? I have done a damn lot of reading today regarding this injury and it is one that the richest sporting clubs in the world have struggled to get there players back from, this is certainly one injury that AR will be up to his eye balls in, in terms of difficulty.

I doubt it. However he hadn't ever treated an injury like burton's. Burton was still getting sore after training before being drafted by hawthorn. Even after we got him on the park he was getting sore so we removed his screws. Then Russell got him fit enough to make it into the seniors. It took Russell a full year to get him right but he did it. In truth I think burton's knee was worse than omeara's and so I think the formline is a good one. Russell is a student of research and knows how to take on advice from experts. I have to back him in.

 

[Gut Runner]

In the NFL the Patella injury has been an instant career killer, not many have been able to come back and contribute but I did find this article which has given hope.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...atellar-tendon-no-longer-a-career-death-knell

It's worth noting the Cruz was pretty poor last season and was having calf problems and subsequently dumped by the Giants, he has lost a lot of speed. Morris Claiborne barely get's on the field, he has had shocking groin issues however Jimmy Graham has fought back to reach All-Pro levels.

Damning really.

Dollars thrown at this injury in the USA would be 10 times what we could spend over here getting it right.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Damning really.

Dollars thrown at this injury in the USA would be 10 times what we could spend over here getting it right.

Medicine in the US probably cost 10X more

 

[Gut Runner]

Medicine in the US probably cost 10X more

Ha ha true, if you don't have insurance, all NFL players would be looked after up to their eyeballs

 

[Gralin]

Damning really.

Dollars thrown at this injury in the USA would be 10 times what we could spend over here getting it right.

The NFL lives in the dark ages when it comes to S&C and is rife with peds I wouldn't be comparing us to them as far as injury rehab, different worlds

 

[lickmerocks]

It's such a shame we are on the bottom of the ladder and playing like a complete rabble.

If we were playing decent footy and in the hunt it would be more about the added excitement of him returning to further strengthen us rather than the desperation we are currently carrying on with. A fit Jaeger at the minute may have helped us perhaps win 1 or 2 more games but some of the hidings we have copped have not been about Jaeger being unavailable but more about the mindset.

No doubt we have our hands full with his recovery and ongoing management but the all the sane things were said when we recruited Shaun Burgoyne and he turned up to his press conference on crutches.

As hard as it is for everyone we need to sit back and suck this period up. If the bloke is still not playing footy in 12 months time then we can all have our turns of "I told you so"

 

[Qlder_19]

Brishawk and I are on the same page in Jack we trust

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I doubt it. However he hadn't ever treated an injury like burton's. Burton was still getting sore after training before being drafted by hawthorn. Even after we got him on the park he was getting sore so we removed his screws. Then Russell got him fit enough to make it into the seniors. It took Russell a full year to get him right but he did it. In truth I think burton's knee was worse than omeara's and so I think the formline is a good one. Russell is a student of research and knows how to take on advice from experts. I have to back him in.

Going a long way to being POTY off the back of your input here Brishawk - it's been a refreshing voice of reason and sanity.

 

[Gut Runner]

The NFL lives in the dark ages when it comes to S&C and is rife with peds I wouldn't be comparing us to them as far as injury rehab, different worlds

Don't know much about their sport, just made the conclusion that considering the shear amount of money in the NFL they would spend up big in terms of rehab.

In the AFL world has there been any success stories when it comes to patella injuries?

 

[Fetnarr]

Damning really.

Dollars thrown at this injury in the USA would be 10 times what we could spend over here getting it right.

It's not about how much you pay its about being smart and using evidence based medicine. I honestly believe the Suns mismanaged Jaeger sending him to a surgeon in the UK to do a procedure who has no experience working with AFL footballers. I'm sure he is an outstanding doctor and has done great things with soccer players etc but there are absolutely brilliant orthopedic specialists in Oz. Also, most of the leading research into the rehabilitation of tendon injuries is coming out of Australia. They would have been better off sending him to Jill Cook a Physio who has a PhD in tendon rehabilitation before sending him for surgery.
Looking at his history I would guess his rehab post procedure was inadequate, the procedure was most likely unnecessary and the Suns pushed him to return to playing too soon with all these things contributing to his ruptured patellar tendon in his first game the following season. If that is in fact what happened I would be pissed too if I was him considering he had managed his patellar tendinopathy issues since he was about 16 years old.

He has had over a year now to rehabilitate his tendon and if you take the club on face value that sounds like it has all gone well, now is the time to target any deficiencies to his surrounding musculature and to work on any bad habits that may have formed during the recovery process eg hip stability, walking/running imbalances etc

I remain optimistic he can return and return well but it will involve a very thorough program to iron out any kinks. The good news is Andrew Russell is the best man for this job.

 

[Fetnarr]

I doubt it. However he hadn't ever treated an injury like burton's. Burton was still getting sore after training before being drafted by hawthorn. Even after we got him on the park he was getting sore so we removed his screws. Then Russell got him fit enough to make it into the seniors. It took Russell a full year to get him right but he did it. In truth I think burton's knee was worse than omeara's and so I think the formline is a good one. Russell is a student of research and knows how to take on advice from experts. I have to back him in.

Top post mate

 

[Rev08]

One part of the JOM trade people are missing is the impact it has on our ability to attract future players, whether they be free agents or otherwise.

When we go to Fyfe, Lynch, May, Lever, Whitfield or whoever else our heart desires, we can say with confidence and EVIDENCE that when someone requests a trade to HFC they WILL make it there.

Had we failed to secure JOM it puts a seed of doubt in every deal we attempt to seal and leaves players open to be poached at the last minute by another club. JOM didn't consider Essendon when it looked like we might not get the deal done because we assured him we'd get him. Guaranteed, when we attract another star, other teams will be looking for a way to hijack the deal just like we did with Carlisle.

 

[Hawthorn United]

One part of the JOM trade people are missing is the impact it has on our ability to attract future players, whether they be free agents or otherwise.

When we go to Fyfe, Lynch, May, Lever, Whitfield or whoever else our heart desires, we can say with confidence and EVIDENCE that when someone requests a trade to HFC they WILL make it there.

Had we failed to secure JOM it puts a seed of doubt in every deal we attempt to seal and leaves players open to be poached at the last minute by another club. JOM didn't consider Essendon when it looked like we might not get the deal done because we assured him we'd get him. Guaranteed, when we attract another star, other teams will be looking for a way to hijack the deal just like we did with Carlisle.

This puts us in a position where the club that has the player on their list can bend us over a barrel knowing we will likely cave and give in to their demands.

 

[tige19]

The NFL lives in the dark ages when it comes to S&C and is rife with peds I wouldn't be comparing us to them as far as injury rehab, different worlds

Sorry mate, but this is the biggest load of crap I've ever read. NFL teams live in the dark ages when it comes to Sports science? Love to hear your reasoning

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Gralin]

Sorry mate, but this is the biggest load of crap I've ever read. NFL teams live in the dark ages when it comes to Sports science? Love to hear your reasoning

Unless it has changed significantly in the last few years, players have been quoted as saying what they do at clubs, and I am talking successful clubs is way behind what is going on in US college programs and other sports

 

[tige19]

Unless it has changed significantly in the last few years, players have been quoted as saying what they do at clubs, and I am talking successful clubs is way behind what is going on in US college programs and other sports

Universities are certainly more advanced, no doubting that. But I did find it strange your comment about the NFL being in the dark ages, from the tours overseas afl clubs take it seems to be NFL and EPL ones getting the most visits.

Anyway, the link below is probably the best bit of info I've found on the injury. Certainly worth reading to gain an understandin.

http://www.sportsmd.com/knee-injuries/patellar-tendon-rupture/

 

[Rev08]

This puts us in a position where the club that has the player on their list can bend us over a barrel knowing we will likely cave and give in to their demands.

It doesn't work that way. They're not all cowboys like Cochrane.

 

[Gralin]

Universities are certainly more advanced, no doubting that. But I did find it strange your comment about the NFL being in the dark ages, from the tours overseas afl clubs take it seems to be NFL and EPL ones getting the most visits.

Anyway, the link below is probably the best bit of info I've found on the injury. Certainly worth reading to gain an understandin.

http://www.sportsmd.com/knee-injuries/patellar-tendon-rupture/

Yeah I'm not talking facilities, just training and rehab techinques

It's also a very different model, the players spend more time away from the trainers than our blokes do, seasons is shorter, offseason longer

training techniques would be different as the game is but I know Troy Polamalu for example who was a fantastic safety used to train in the offseason back in hawaii and didn't like the way they did things in Pittsburgh, and he won superbowls with them

When he stopped playing a few years ago NFL was still more about pushing plates and hitting bags than all the stuff he did in the offseason to work on his agility and explosiveness

 

[Mr Lizard]

you spin me right round baby right round...

 

[Adebisi]

Yeah I'm not talking facilities, just training and rehab techinques

It's also a very different model, the players spend more time away from the trainers than our blokes do, seasons is shorter, offseason longer

training techniques would be different as the game is but I know Troy Polamalu for example who was a fantastic safety used to train in the offseason back in hawaii and didn't like the way they did things in Pittsburgh, and he won superbowls with them

When he stopped playing a few years ago NFL was still more about pushing plates and hitting bags than all the stuff he did in the offseason to work on his agility and explosiveness

Complex issue Gralin. Alot of the best players in the American sports have their own personal trainers etc, the team appointed coaches often work more with the lesser known types.
Often players are pushed and pulled in too many places at once, with different voices etc.
But there are some amazing improvements happening over there.
I said it earlier, but the biggest advancements to come are in overall movement capability and knowledge. Guys like Ido Portal are really starting to influence pro sports...