Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[ParapMarkets]

Yes good point at 26 yrs old if he keeps this form up with Rowe out with a knee and Asos 30 yrs old next season Jones wont be going anywhere as he will be a valuable commodity to our backline .
I think peopĺe get a little carried away with what may eventuate . I dont necessarily think there will be any of our valued players go unless they want out and i see that being only Gibbs and/or Casboult . I could also see them both staying given the promise we are showing .

I absolutely think the most likely scenario is that Jones will remain on Carlton's list if he continues in this form. Still young enough to have many years ahead of him. I know we shouldn't jump the gun, but he is a very valuable player whilst he is playing like this.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Don't particularly care for the Rising Star award, but there's clearly a feel of a young 'destination club' happening right now.

From the outside it will be seen as a young club going places.......with the right coach......the right list manager........and a vastly improved culture.

Getting players to this club is going to be so much easier, given what we are throwing out. The build is simply perfect for now. May it remain so.

Kelly and Hopper would have a lot of friends at our club, conversations would be had about the type of environment we have. The way we are playing with so much youth out there is really exceeding my expectations, Carlton would be seen as a place on the move and an attractive proposition. We would have to be a serious contender should these guys wish to leave (I think Hopper is gone it's just a matter of where to).

There is still a long way to go but the transformation of our club from 20 months ago is remarkable. Bolton and SOS (and maybe Brodie too?) have been excellent.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Be

Kelly and Hopper would have a lot of friends at our club, conversations would be had about the type of environment we have. The way we are playing with so much youth out there is really exceeding my expectations, Carlton would be seen as a place on the move and an attractive proposition. We would have to be a serious contender should these guys wish to leave (I think Hopper is gone it's just a matter of where to).

There is still a long way to go but the transformation of our club from 20 months ago is remarkable. Bolton and SOS (and maybe Brodie too?) have been excellent.

Better hope gws dont win the flag. Hard to leave a premiership team

 

[Pafloyul]

You honestly wouldn't take that?
A possible pick 4 and 8 for Hopper, Kelly and 36 (In a supposed super draft)

It may turn out to be a 'super draft' but the main point seems to be that there'll be a lot of talent at the top of the draft. I wouldn't be too quick to give up on next year's first round given there's meant to be some real standout KPFs on offer. We can always trade up if we don't end up with a high enough pick. Little chance of having the trade currency to nail us a high enough pick without our original first.

 

[HARKER]

Kelly and Hopper would have a lot of friends at our club, conversations would be had about the type of environment we have. The way we are playing with so much youth out there is really exceeding my expectations, Carlton would be seen as a place on the move and an attractive proposition. We would have to be a serious contender should these guys wish to leave (I think Hopper is gone it's just a matter of where to).

There is still a long way to go but the transformation of our club from 20 months ago is remarkable. Bolton and SOS (and maybe Brodie too?) have been excellent.

The 'vibe' around the club and emanating outwards is a good one.
Important we keep to what we're doing and not get swayed by external noises.

Have never seen this club be so honest about what they're setting out to do. So refreshing.

 

[ParapMarkets]

The 'vibe' around the club and emanating outwards is a good one.
Important we keep to what we're doing and not get swayed by external noises.

Have never seen this club be so honest about what they're setting out to do. So refreshing.

My gut feel is still that Gibbs will leave at the end of the year. If that does happen I think it is feasible to trade our Gibbs compo plus our first pick for Kelly and Hopper to GWS. If Gibbs were to go he wouldn't be booed by me as he is playing bloody good footy and ensuring we get properly compensated.


This draft appears underwhelming at the moment (I know it's still early days). We have a lot of cap space (with ability to go 105% in consecutive years). I think it would have always been in our plans to start making moves on A-grade talent at this stage.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

what did sos want for gibbs last year? and what does sos want for gibbs now?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...aide-trade-falls-through-20161020-gs6v0p.html
...
Carlton said from the opening of trade talks last week that they wanted 13 and a player, such as Charlie Cameron, Mitch McGovern, Matt Crouch or Jake Lever. Once Adelaide refused to package any of those players with 13 in a trade, the Blues said they wanted two first-round draft picks for Gibbs.
...

 

[GapInIkonPark]

If we still want Lynch, do we dangle the carrot of being friends with the Beast instead of his enemy?

Might get us over the line.

Get Kelly, and Lynch and Shiel will be falling over themselves to come to us.

Destination club.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

As every week goes by, it should become that little clearer as to who stays and who may go;

Seniors: Gorringe, Armfield, Palmer (If he did come on board for just the one year) = 3
Rookies: Glass-McCasker & Gallucci = 2
Others that have little time to show form: Buckley, White (can see us rookie-ing him), Jaksch (now that Jones is doing so well) & Graham = 4
Retirees: Rowe = 1

Something like this may be as deep as we can go with the cuts.........even of we did go this deep. 10 players cut may yet be too much.

I think Graham will stay on another 1 year contract.
I think Thomas and Jones will also get another year (start of the year it was Thomas, Jones and a Jaksch as the first 3, Gorringe, Graham, Buckley, Boekhorst ...)
Palmer has another year, Kerridge too.

Going ...
White and Armfield (both retired), Gorringe, Buckley, Jaksch, Boekhorst (I think he played ok against Suns, couple of mistakes, but let's see how he goes, should get another 2-3 games) So 6
Rookies ... JGM, Gallucci, Korcheck

Rowe to rookie list as KPD cover (let's not forget that ASOS and Jones are getting games due to injuries / to help the kids)

And we may lose Gibbs and Casboult too ...

 

[GapInIkonPark]

It does more so now and given Gibbs' form, but at the time it may have been a risk that the AFC board weren't prepared to take.....and I can't blame them.
They may yet regret it, but they had to make a decision and they just couldn't pull the trigger at the time.

It's all old news now and I don't blame them for not selling off 2 first rounders, but I do blame them for thinking they could put us over a barrel.

Sloane, Jacobs, Betts, Walker and Lynch all a year older. Thompson playing SANFL.
Regrets ... Adelaide will have many I suspect.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

We have too many Charlie Cameron types now.
Do not need more.
Though his 8-10 possessions a game could be handy

Our dream should be Kelly, Hopper and Zak Jones.
Midfield sorted.

Absolutely would take Charlie Cameron.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

If we have a top 3 pick, I'd be trying to offer next year's 1st + what we get for Gibbs.

2 scenarios I can see playing out:

1 - We have pick #3:

Cas gets us band 3 compo. Let's say it's pick #23.

Gibbs > Crows
McGovern + #23 > Eagles
#10 + #16 > Blues

#10 + #16 + 2018 1st > GWS
Kelly + Hopper > Blues
(Essentially ends up being #10 + 2018 1st for Kelly and #16 for Hopper)

Go to draft with #3 and whatever we have after that. Draft LDU, Fogarty or Rayner

We end up adding Kelly + Hopper + LDU

2 - We end up with pick #5

Things change a bit now. I've still got Cas netting us band 3 compo.

Gibbs trade stands.
Gibbs > Crows
McGovern + #23 > Eagles
#10 + #16 > Blues

#5 + #10 + #16 > GWS
Kelly + Hopper > Blues

We don't add as much to our midfield this year, but next year we will have a top 10 pick again and be able to pickup a quality player with it.

Come 2019 we throw the treasure chest at Shiel and get him to Carlton at all costs.

A midfield with Cripps + SPS + Kelly + Hopper + Shiel + LDU + Cuningham would monster the competition. Throw in our elite back line then there's Charlie + Jack + McKay up forward and we will be on the way to not only a single premiership, but most likely a new era Carlton dynasty.

SOS will make it happen!

Why not keep 2018 first and give up our 2017 first (take the hit this year)?
Get BenSOS as well as another player with our first round pick year.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Why not keep 2018 first and give up our 2017 first (take the hit this year)?
Get BenSOS as well as another player with our first round pick year.

Well as I said, for me it depends on what our 1st this year ends up being. Top 3, then we trade next year's, if not, then we trade this year's.

 

[ESKIE]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlto...gibbs-to-fulfil-contract-20170619-gwu10x.html
"Anything more, regarding the end of the year, is just hypothetical. Would we want and expect him him to be part of our long-term future? Yes," Trigg said.
"He's happy and we're, obviously, really pleased with everything that he's doing - leadership wise, on the track and on game day," he said.

 

[Benaly28]

Be


Better hope gws dont win the flag. Hard to leave a premiership team

Not if you don't play in one I.e hopper.

 

[DangerousD]

It may turn out to be a 'super draft' but the main point seems to be that there'll be a lot of talent at the top of the draft. I wouldn't be too quick to give up on next year's first round given there's meant to be some real standout KPFs on offer. We can always trade up if we don't end up with a high enough pick. Little chance of having the trade currency to nail us a high enough pick without our original first.

Is josh kelly not stand out talent, there aren't many who are better

 

[DangerousD]

Big fan of Bryce and I really want him to stay.
I'm not usually a fan of Jon Ralph but he made a good point this week.
Why are we not offering Bryce a new deal? One that extends his current deal and increases his money?

Part of the desire to move home can be negated by making sure he will make more money by staying.

This is done all the time in the soccer leagues to ward off interest from other clubs.

 

[DangerousD]

Be


Better hope gws dont win the flag. Hard to leave a premiership team

I think it's the total opposite, win a flag, job done, box ticked, now time to go home and make more money. By not winning the desire to stay would be greater.

I feel this is what Judd, Buddy, Beams, Josh Carr (going back far) did. But some players will see it different.

 

[LordLucifer]

Big fan of Bryce and I really want him to stay.
I'm not usually a fan of Jon Ralph but he made a good point this week.
Why are we not offering Bryce a new deal? One that extends his current deal and increases his money?

Part of the desire to move home can be negated by making sure he will make more money by staying.

This is done all the time in the soccer leagues to ward off interest from other clubs.

We don't have to rush in to a new deal, he still has another two years on his current one to go.

 

[Soapy V]

We don't have to rush in to a new deal, he still has another two years on his current one to go.

Which takes him to 30-31 years old. Why would you give him more? He has been well paid his entire career and seems to be happy and playing well. Deal is a deal.

Some of the short term thinking that "journos" come up with is pathetic. No understanding of what the club is doing or what it is trying to achieve

 

[DangerousD]

We don't have to rush in to a new deal, he still has another two years on his current one to go.

But what's he on currently? Talk is that his contract was front loaded so maybe $400,000 ATM (guessing)

if we want him long term, Then make a better offer than what the Crows are, make it harder for them to lure him. We supposedly have all this cap space.

We already re-signed weiteribg and sps even though they were contracted.

 

[DangerousD]

Which takes him to 30-31 years old. Why would you give him more? He has been well paid his entire career and seems to be happy and playing well. Deal is a deal.

Some of the short term thinking that "journos" come up with is pathetic. No understanding of what the club is doing or what it is trying to achieve

Extending the deal is long term thinking.

 

[La Dispute]

Be


Better hope gws dont win the flag. Hard to leave a premiership team

I think it'll actually make it easier.

Flags in the bag now to chase some cash money

 

[Arr0w]

Makes no sense to re-sign Gibbs to a longer contract at this point.

Let's all be honest for a moment, he is very talented, but do we want to retain him because he is a bigger body, leader etc, or because he helps us to win some games short-term?

I don't want to lose any senior, talented, leaders of our club, but nor do I want to retain all of them, thinking we already have the nucleus of a premiership side. There would be no doubt, that he would still be considering a trade home, despite the comments from the club suggesting otherwise.

The benefit medium/long term of trading him, outweighs the short term benefits of keeping him

 

[Blue__Balls]

But what's he on currently? Talk is that his contract was front loaded so maybe $400,000 ATM (guessing)

if we want him long term, Then make a better offer than what the Crows are, make it harder for them to lure him. We supposedly have all this cap space.

We already re-signed weiteribg and sps even though they were contracted.

We may have offered a deal - doesn't mean Bryce wants to make a decision on it now. He probably wants to wait it out and focus on playing good footy this year, and come season's end he and his family can make their decision. Better for all involved if any conversations take place behind closed doors, because us publicly making an offer and him "delaying talks" or "rejecting the offer" creates an immediate headline that Bryce is on the move.