Recommitted Dustin Martin [re-signed]

[The_Steadier]

You don't know that. You desperately hope that, but you don't know it.

You mean like how you're desperately hoping there are decent FA's on the market because you have no draft picks?

 

[DesertRoo]

Because Dusty probably figures he'l get more money by waiting, and won't sign before end of year.

Do you know the Dusty??
Because it's a pretty shit move by you to suggest Dustys only motivated by money... give the guy a little more credit.

 

[Royal Flush]

Because Dusty probably figures he'l get more money by waiting, and won't sign before end of year.

The risk of injury doesn't make this point of view logical if his intentions are to resign with Richmond for just under market price.

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[kirbatron]

Interestingly the only club in the AFL which can pretty much guarantee at least one premiership in the next 5 years would never be able to afford him.

We have heaps of free cash mate dont worry

 

[juss]

The risk of injury doesn't make this point of view logical if his intentions are to resign with Richmond for just under market price.

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I think he wants to play to the end of the year to boost market price and thus Richmond's offer up. I've said it the whole time, he's trying to milk every dollar he can from the Tigers, and that is best achieved by waiting until end of year.

 

[cryptor]

It would be the only sensible thing to do in the circumstances.

Commit a huge chunk of your salary cap to a player who has committed themselves to leaving?

What happens if he does stays on that money because no club will trade for him on top of that huge salary? How will a large chunk of the Richmond list who won't get as much of the pie now feel? It's nice to think everyone will still be friends, and maybe they'll all put on smiles. But you've got 40-odd young men who aren't all close friends and I guarantee it will rub enough of them the wrong way to cause issues.

Or what happens if a trade can't get done and he leaves you for absolutely nothing via the PSD? Don't say no one does that, because they have. It just hasn't happened in a while because clubs don't think like supporters. They'll take the emotion out of it and make the best business decision.

There's way more to the risk assessment here than weighing up losing a player like him for pick 10 in the draft. Way more.

 

[cryptor]

You mean like how you're desperately hoping there are decent FA's on the market because you have no draft picks?

Our recruiting - even with later picks - is pretty good. How many recent draftees did St Kilda have in the last AFL team of the week?

 

[telsor]

Commit a huge chunk of your salary cap to a player who has committed themselves to leaving?

What happens if he does stays on that money because no club will trade for him on top of that huge salary? How will a large chunk of the Richmond list who won't get as much of the pie now feel? It's nice to think everyone will still be friends, and maybe they'll all put on smiles. But you've got 40-odd young men who aren't all close friends and I guarantee it will rub enough of them the wrong way to cause issues.

Or what happens if a trade can't get done and he leaves you for absolutely nothing via the PSD? Don't say no one does that, because they have. It just hasn't happened in a while because clubs don't think like supporters. They'll take the emotion out of it and make the best business decision.

There's way more to the risk assessment here than weighing up losing a player like him for pick 10 in the draft. Way more.

It's not like Richmond wouldn't speak to him or his manager between the initial offer and the last day.

Richmond probably have an offer for something like $1Million out now.
Dusty/Carr, once the season ends...North has offered us $1.25M
Richmond: Yeah, OK, we'll match that, Good enough?
D/C: It'll do for now...
Carr goes off, tries to talk north up/get other bidders and comes back with an offer of $1.4M
Richmond $1.3
D/C: Yeah, we need a bit better than that.
<short delay>
R: Yeah, OK $1,399,999...
D/C: Done.

Deal gets signed, announcements are made as if there was never really any serious thought of leaving, and a big deal about how he was offered more elsewhere but chose to stay at the club he loves... etc. etc. spin spin spin bullshit bullshit etc...

 

[juss]

Commit a huge chunk of your salary cap to a player who has committed themselves to leaving?

What happens if he does stays on that money because no club will trade for him on top of that huge salary? How will a large chunk of the Richmond list who won't get as much of the pie now feel? It's nice to think everyone will still be friends, and maybe they'll all put on smiles. But you've got 40-odd young men who aren't all close friends and I guarantee it will rub enough of them the wrong way to cause issues.

Or what happens if a trade can't get done and he leaves you for absolutely nothing via the PSD? Don't say no one does that, because they have. It just hasn't happened in a while because clubs don't think like supporters. They'll take the emotion out of it and make the best business decision.

There's way more to the risk assessment here than weighing up losing a player like him for pick 10 in the draft. Way more.

That's okay, you have the opinion that it's risky. I'd say the club would be prepared that if they match he won't walk out on the PSD. I'd also be prepared to say that if he does want to leave via a trade, that the club who made him that massive offer is not going to back out of a trade when they have already come to terms with Dusty.
I still maintain, and will continue to maintain that Dusty is trying to get as much money as possible from the tigers, and that is best done by waiting. He's entitled to consider all options after his season.

Again, we will see who's correct at the end of the year, it might be those saying he's leaving, it might be us saying he's staying.

 

[telsor]

That's okay, you have the opinion that it's risky. I'd say the club would be prepared that if they match he won't walk out on the PSD. I'd also be prepared to say that if he does want to leave via a trade, that the club who made him that massive offer is not going to back out of a trade when they have already come to terms with Dusty.
I still maintain, and will continue to maintain that Dusty is trying to get as much money as possible from the tigers, and that is best done by waiting. He's entitled to consider all options after his season.

Again, we will see who's correct at the end of the year, it might be those saying he's leaving, it might be us saying he's staying.

The only way a player would refuse a matched offer is if he either hated the club he was at or really loved the new club and it's prospects so much that he'd totally screw over the original club.

Every indication is he's pretty happy with Richmond though, which makes that pretty unlikely.

 

[cryptor]

It's not like Richmond wouldn't speak to him or his manager between the initial offer and the last day.

Richmond probably have an offer for something like $1Million out now.
Dusty/Carr, once the season ends...North has offered us $1.25M
Richmond: Yeah, OK, we'll match that, Good enough?
D/C: It'll do for now...
Carr goes off, tries to talk north up/get other bidders and comes back with an offer of $1.4M
Richmond $1.3
D/C: Yeah, we need a bit better than that.
<short delay>
R: Yeah, OK $1,399,999...
D/C: Done.

Deal gets signed, announcements are made as if there was never really any serious thought of leaving, and a big deal about how he was offered more elsewhere but chose to stay at the club he loves... etc. etc. spin spin spin bullshit bullshit etc...

We're talking about a situation where he's already taken another clubs offer through free agency and Richmond are faced with the decision to match or not.

No doubt if he does stay that it will go somewhat how you've laid it out.

 

[telsor]

We're talking about a situation where he's already taken another clubs offer through free agency and Richmond are faced with the decision to match or not.

No doubt if he does stay that it will go somewhat how you've laid it out.

No, we're talking about Dusty actually talking to Richmond before he accepted such an offer.

The idea that he'd accept another club's offer without even speaking to Richmond/giving them a chance to match/beat it is, to say the least, highly unlikely.

 

[cryptor]

That's okay, you have the opinion that it's risky. I'd say the club would be prepared that if they match he won't walk out on the PSD. I'd also be prepared to say that if he does want to leave via a trade, that the club who made him that massive offer is not going to back out of a trade when they have already come to terms with Dusty.
I still maintain, and will continue to maintain that Dusty is trying to get as much money as possible from the tigers, and that is best done by waiting. He's entitled to consider all options after his season.

Again, we will see who's correct at the end of the year, it might be those saying he's leaving, it might be us saying he's staying.

For what reason leads you to believe that Richmond would be prepared to think Martin wouldn't consider the PSD if they matched? (And to clarify, that's assuming a trade couldn't be agreed to)

As telsor pointed out, if it's just a matter of money for Martin then Richmond won't be finding out the figure after he's taken another clubs offer. His manager will have given them the amount before then and they will have agreed to it.

If he does want to leave for a monsterous offer, Richmond match it and the other club refuse to trade (on the basis that he's not worth the monsterous offer AND a huge amount in trade) then I don't think it will reflect badly on that club. Not as badly as it would Richmond. Sure, there'd be those in the media and on here that would say that it's Richmond's right to match, etc. And that it most surely is. But as we saw with Adelaide and Dangerfield a couple years ago, the general consensus was that Dangerfield had given them great service and that they shouldn't stand in his way, even if that was their right. Luckily the trade got done relatively civilly.

You may be right about him just trying to squeeze every last dollar out of Richmond. But I think Richmond would be fools not to have tabled their best and final offer to him by now. If Martin is still holding out for more then I doubt it will be much more in the end. When you're only one horrible injury away from potentially never playing again is it really worth holding out another 2-3 months for maybe at best another $50k on a ~$1.2-1.5M per year contract?

 

[juss]

For what reason leads you to believe that Richmond would be prepared to think Martin wouldn't consider the PSD if they matched? (And to clarify, that's assuming a trade couldn't be agreed to)

As telsor pointed out, if it's just a matter of money for Martin then Richmond won't be finding out the figure after he's taken another clubs offer. His manager will have given them the amount before then and they will have agreed to it.

If he does want to leave for a monsterous offer, Richmond match it and the other club refuse to trade (on the basis that he's not worth the monsterous offer AND a huge amount in trade) then I don't think it will reflect badly on that club. Not as badly as it would Richmond. Sure, there'd be those in the media and on here that would say that it's Richmond's right to match, etc. And that it most surely is. But as we saw with Adelaide and Dangerfield a couple years ago, the general consensus was that Dangerfield had given them great service and that they shouldn't stand in his way, even if that was their right. Luckily the trade got done relatively civilly.

You may be right about him just trying to squeeze every last dollar out of Richmond. But I think Richmond would be fools not to have tabled their best and final offer to him by now. If Martin is still holding out for more then I doubt it will be much more in the end. When you're only one horrible injury away from potentially never playing again is it really worth holding out another 2-3 months for maybe at best another $50k on a ~$1.2-1.5M per year contract?

He's not going to walk to the PSD, honestly, it doesn't need to be explained. It's not going to happen.
Who was the last big name to do that?

 

[cryptor]

No, we're talking about Dusty actually talking to Richmond before he accepted such an offer.

The idea that he'd accept another club's offer without even speaking to Richmond/giving them a chance to match/beat it is, to say the least, highly unlikely.

You might be talking about that, but the post of mine you quoted was a part of a discussion with another posting stemming from what I said the discussion was about.

I've never claimed that he'd accept another clubs offer without first telling Richmond (assuming he'd be willing to stay at Richmond on that amount and he's not just wanting to get out).

 

[cryptor]

He's not going to walk to the PSD, honestly, it doesn't need to be explained. It's not going to happen.
Who was the last big name to do that?

I've already said don't bother saying that.

You argue that no one ever walks to the PSD, but did you stop to consider that that might be because no club ever matches the offer?

 

[The_Steadier]

I've already said don't bother saying that.

You argue that no one ever walks to the PSD, but did you stop to consider that that might be because no club ever matches the offer?

No club ever matches an offer because any situations where an offer would be matched is resolved via a trade before FA bids come into it.

Danger a prime example.

Werent you one of the people rightfully laughing at gc and bombers folks talking about jaeger and psd 6 months ago?

 

[The Filth Wizard]

No club ever matches an offer because any situations where an offer would be matched is resolved via a trade before FA bids come into it.

Danger a prime example.

Isn't Danger the only example or have there been some lower profile ones?

 

[cryptor]

No club ever matches an offer because any situations where an offer would be matched is resolved via a trade before FA bids come into it.

Danger a prime example.

So other than Dangerfield, what big name free agent has been traded in lieu of going via free agency? And don't bother naming any that were traded to avoid having free agency compensation reduced.

Dangerfield was an exception for a couple of reasons. First, he wanted Adelaide to be fairly compensated for him leaving. Second, he was going to Geelong on relatively "low" money so as to allow Geelong to continue to put together a strong list - this would've meant he couldn't price out other clubs in the PSD.

 

[The_Steadier]

Isn't Danger the only example or have there been some lower profile ones?

That's the thing though- it will only happen with high profile ones.
Because THEY are the ones who are worth more than the compo pick the club would get.

And high profile FA stars the level of danger/dusty/fyfe don't change clubs very often, so maybe danger is the only one on the list so far?

Buddy would be on the list too and gone via trade- but didn't because the hawks had no chance or interest in matching the swans insane deal.
Hawks didn't even bother threatening to match to force a trade, because it was obvious they wouldn't.

Anyone got a list of FA's that have moved either by trade or as a FA?

Anytime a FA is clearly worth more than their compo AND the current club has cap space, they will go by trade.

 

[The_Steadier]

So other than Dangerfield, what big name free agent has been traded in lieu of going via free agency? And don't bother naming any that were traded to avoid having free agency compensation reduced.

Dangerfield was an exception for a couple of reasons. First, he wanted Adelaide to be fairly compensated for him leaving. Second, he was going to Geelong on relatively "low" money so as to allow Geelong to continue to put together a strong list - this would've meant he couldn't price out other clubs in the PSD.

How many big name free agents have moved clubs fullstop?

By big name i mean ones worth clearly more than the compo pick.
I count 2- buddy and danger

 

[Toadvine]

You don't know that. You desperately hope that, but you don't know it.

Just like you desperately hoping we'll just allow a top 5 player in the comp to walk out of the club for practically zero.

 

[cryptor]

How many big name free agents have moved clubs fullstop?

By big name i mean ones worth clearly more than the compo pick.
I count 2- buddy and danger

As I thought. There are none.

 

[cryptor]

Just like you desperately hoping we'll just allow a top 5 player in the comp to walk out of the club for practically zero.

I'm not hoping for that. I've just spent the last hour or so arguing why it won't come to that lol

 

[Snake_Baker]

It's not like Richmond wouldn't speak to him or his manager between the initial offer and the last day.

Richmond probably have an offer for something like $1Million out now.
Dusty/Carr, once the season ends...North has offered us $1.25M
Richmond: Yeah, OK, we'll match that, Good enough?
D/C: It'll do for now...
Carr goes off, tries to talk north up/get other bidders and comes back with an offer of $1.4M
Richmond $1.3
D/C: Yeah, we need a bit better than that.
<short delay>
R: Yeah, OK $1,399,999...
D/C: Done.

Deal gets signed, announcements are made as if there was never really any serious thought of leaving, and a big deal about how he was offered more elsewhere but chose to stay at the club he loves... etc. etc. spin spin spin bullshit bullshit etc...

Seriously mate, I have more respect for your club than you do.

There's no way I can see B. Gale and co. grovelling, and getting in to a bidding war with one of its existing players.