Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[TheHeatleyStand]

Why wouldnt we? If we get it, great. If not, then at least we know.

This is a business decision. Pride and hurt feelings have no place in this choice.

It would be like buying a house and not applying for the first home buyer grant because you dont want a handout. Idiocy.

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By the way that's not the same thing
The first year home buyer is open to every first home buyer the first time they buy a home
It's not there for first home buyers that squandered all their money and want to buy a house

That's comparing apples with oranges lol

 

[Bluey24]

35 goals if thats what Cas ends up with imo is a very good haul . Taking into consideration he spends a bit of time in the ruck our not so slick (being very generous here) ball movement forward . And being in a struggling side i think his 35 is 50 in the better sides . I think were underselling Levi's efforts this year .

Well put.

I was a Casboult (and Jones ) hater pre-season. I eat my hat, and full credit to these two gentlemen, and the coaches, for turning their careers around.

If Jones played like he has in the past 6 weeks in Rounds 1-6, he'd be in serious AA discussions.

If Casboult was in a Top 4 team all year, he'd be on track for 50+ goals.

 

[katmanblue]

By the way that's not the same thing
The first year home buyer is open to every first home buyer the first time they buy a home
It's not there for first home buyers that squandered all their money and want to buy a house

That's comparing apples with oranges lol

So what you are saying is that if you fit the criteria, you can get the grant but only if you apply for it. Sounds like the priority pick to me.

Just because more people are eligable for the FHBG doesnt mean its different.

The difference is that we know the criteria for the FHBG, which makes it less likely for those that are ineligable to apply.

We don't know the criteria for the priority pick because its not set in stone. So it follows that we should ask for it to find out if we are eligable. Its not black and white. A persuasive argument might get it over the line.

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[Nostalgia]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

 

[F_therest]

Interesting observation in the HUN about Swans Rising Star nomination and the rest of their backline - all recruited as "rookies" - now that is seriously smart/clever recruiting and player development.

I.e.

Melican and backline buddies Dane Rampe, Heath Grundy, Nic Newman, Jake Lloyd and Nick Smith are all rookie success stories drafted by Swans recruiter Kinnear Beatson.

History has shown you certainly can find good defenders from late picks...but gun forwards almost exclusively come from top draft picks and while you can find midfield gems late in the draft, the absolute elite USUALLY come from high picks.

This is why in all honesty i feel we were a bit unlucky that somehow the standout no.1 pick in 2015 was a key defender.

As much as i love Weitering, we're seeing guys like Jones and Macreadie (40 something pick) look good. Plus defenders typically have a low price at the trade table compared to forwards who's trade prices are inflated, so we were able to get Plowman and Marchbank at good prices.

A no.1 pick is such a big asset to shape your list and it would have been so good if in 2015 the standout player was a gun mid in the Martin or Kelly mould.

 

[F_therest]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

One team beating another doesn't make that team 'better' than the other overall.

That's like saying we're better than GWS since we beat them...

I actually think Brisbane have a higher number of good young players than us...partly because our recruiting was shocking pre-SOS, plus they have been given a few priority picks lately and have academy-tied players like Hipwood and Keays in 2015.

North though aren't much chop...have some good, solid young players but not as many as we do nor Brisbane, plus not the top end quality like a Hipwood or Curnow. Their best currently is probably someone like Simpkin, Garner or McDonald who are no where near Hipwood or Curnow's level at this stage.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Well put.

I was a Casboult (and Jones ) hater pre-season. I eat my hat, and full credit to these two gentlemen, and the coaches, for turning their careers around.

If Jones played like he has in the past 6 weeks in Rounds 1-6, he'd be in serious AA discussions.

If Casboult was in a Top 4 team all year, he'd be on track for 50+ goals.

Not sure about 50+ but 40-50 in a good or top side i think is what he is capable of now that he's fixed his kicking yips . Given him confidence overall in his game .

 

[teagueyubeauty]

So what you are saying is that if you fit the criteria, you can get the grant but only if you apply for it. Sounds like the priority pick to me.

Just because more people are eligable for the FHBG doesnt mean its different.

The difference is that we know the criteria for the FHBG, which makes it less likely for those that are ineligable to apply.

We don't know the criteria for the priority pick because its not set in stone. So it follows that we should ask for it to find out if we are eligable. Its not black and white. A persuasive argument might get it over the line.

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It may also persuade the AFL to look on free agency compo in relation to Casboult in a better light than it probably should.

If you're not working the makey uppey system you're not doing your job...

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

History has shown you certainly can find good defenders from late picks...but gun forwards almost exclusively come from top draft picks and while you can find midfield gems late in the draft, the absolute elite USUALLY come from high picks.

This is why in all honesty i feel we were a bit unlucky that somehow the standout no.1 pick in 2015 was a key defender.

As much as i love Weitering, we're seeing guys like Jones and Macreadie (40 something pick) look good. Plus defenders typically have a low price at the trade table compared to forwards who's trade prices are inflated, so we were able to get Plowman and Marchbank at good prices.

A no.1 pick is such a big asset to shape your list and it would have been so good if in 2015 the standout player was a gun mid in the Martin or Kelly mould.

I agree with what you are saying but by us using our number 1 pick on Weitering then I think it's fair to assume we expect him to get near Rance levels which justifies using pick 1 on him.
I do remember around the draft though people suggesting we would be better off taking Shache for that very reason which had merit but so did the McCartin pick.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

So what you are saying is that if you fit the criteria, you can get the grant but only if you apply for it. Sounds like the priority pick to me.

Just because more people are eligable for the FHBG doesnt mean its different.

The difference is that we know the criteria for the FHBG, which makes it less likely for those that are ineligable to apply.

We don't know the criteria for the priority pick because its not set in stone. So it follows that we should ask for it to find out if we are eligable. Its not black and white. A persuasive argument might get it over the line.

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No I'm saying your comparison is wrong
What's the criteria?
How many games did we win last year?
Are you seriously going to go to the AFL and plead gross ineptitude and need picks!?
Here's something for you.. We're probably going to have to ask them for money soon too!( Fact)!
You're pleading that we're a total welfare club
Which would mean that you have no faith in the administration turning anything around without welfare!

I'm sorry mate we have had our fair share of priority picks over the years and I'm hoping that the club is now planning and executing better than having to just crawl for freebies
Not sure what you understand about hard work and planning superior to a sense of self entitlement for handouts being the answer
Never seen too many dole bludgers doing too great!
Let's do this properly!

 

[DangerousD]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

Of course we are behind North, they are getting Martin, Kelly, Greene and Pittard.

On a serious note, I am unsure and it all depends on who goes out and who comes in.

The Lions however have some really good young talls at both ends but like us are a bit short on mids

 

[cookie monster]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

Not at all. We've focussed on getting our bookends right, which they are. Right now, in the absence of Cripps we are getting smashed in the middle. The last piece of the puzzle is midfield talent, an area of the ground that can change very quickly and immediately. We are going to go past a lot of teams, very quickly in the next 24 months.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

So what you are saying is that if you fit the criteria, you can get the grant but only if you apply for it. Sounds like the priority pick to me.

Just because more people are eligable for the FHBG doesnt mean its different.

The difference is that we know the criteria for the FHBG, which makes it less likely for those that are ineligable to apply.

We don't know the criteria for the priority pick because its not set in stone. So it follows that we should ask for it to find out if we are eligable. Its not black and white. A persuasive argument might get it over the line.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

By the way when you say" if you fit the criteria" you're basically saying if your club is a sham!
Please let it go!

This is a competition not welfare

 

[Metalcrusher]

Not at all. We've focussed on getting our bookends right, which they are. Right now, in the absence of Cripps we are getting smashed in the middle. The last piece of the puzzle is midfield talent, an area of the ground that can change very quickly and immediately. We are going to go past a lot of teams, very quickly in the next 24 months.

One forward (cheeky goal sneak), One running defensively good HBF and 3 quality midfielders short .... 5 players get it done SOS.

A decent multipurpose back up ruckman/forward is on the wish list as well.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

We're ahead of North in our development because they're yet to properly bottom out. They're still in the twilight stage - they played finals last year, jettisoned some of their important senior players, and are in the first down year off the back of that. Unless they can secure players like Kelly and Martin they'll tread water at the bottom end of the ladder for one, maybe two more years, before they start to climb back up. We should be climbing from next season as our horde of youngsters start hitting that 40-50 game mark.

Brisbane's issue is a lack of belief more than anything. They play against lower placed sides with a completely different attitude and intensity compared to when they play the better sides. If they think they can win, they play well, if they expect to lose they lose their composure. It's the opposite to us, actually, because we seem to rise to the occasion against some of the better sides, but seem to go to sleep against sides that we should beat. Brisbane actually have a lot of good talent, and they've done well to sign many of them to longer term deals already. They've made a good call taking the captaincy from Rockliff. They've been aided by priority picks and academy selections, but they've needed that to get back to this point. The handouts should stop now and they'll naturally rise back up the ladder as their kids realise they can compete with the rest of the comp.

So, we're ahead of North who are trending down before they can start to trend up (excepting some big senior recruitment coups), and we're probably on the level with Brisbane. Wouldn't be surprised should we be playing finals against Brisbane with some regularity in year's to come.

 

[I bleed Blue]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

Do our wins against Sydney and GWS tell us we are ahead of them?

No single win or loss tells the whole story.

Maybe Brisbane are ahead of us... Maybe not. If or one am very confident in our development and direction.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Being ahead is about winning the prize
That's how it's measured
Everybody else is in the race


Then when you win that prize you need to win that prize again
That's when you're ahead

 

[Blue__Balls]

Being ahead is about winning the prize
That's how it's measured
Everybody else is in the race


Then when you win that prize you need to win that prize again
That's when you're ahead

Absolutely, we're on exactly the same level as Geelong...

 

[LanceRomance]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

Behind North...

Surely you jest.

 

[Gingerbread man]

My daughter who is a GWS academy player met him and Nick Haines a while ago and they were chalk and cheese. Haines spoke confidently and politely whilst Green couldn't utter more than grunts and groans. So she decided he was either dumb as a box of hammers or completely full of himself. Either or both could be his issue.

I think he maybe suffering from both conditions.

 

[HBF]

My daughter who is a GWS academy player met him and Nick Haines a while ago and they were chalk and cheese. Haines spoke confidently and politely whilst Green couldn't utter more than grunts and groans. So she decided he was either dumb as a box of hammers or completely full of himself. Either or both could be his issue.

Pretty sure its this one from what i've heard.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

One forward (cheeky goal sneak), One running defensively good HBF and 3 quality midfielders short .... 5 players get it done SOS.

A decent multipurpose back up ruckman/forward is on the wish list as well.

We have the multipurpose back up ruckman/forward of the future already - Harry McKay

Mids, mids, mids and more mids.....and HFF/FP dynamos.....and a project ruckman or 2 that doesn't need to be a chop out forward

 

[HBF]

Murphy is contracted until 2018.

I'd then give him rolling 1 year deals.
If it's good enough for Judd, it's well and truly good enough for Murphy.
Probably a good time to make a change with the captaincy as well.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

No
= Lions
Ahead of Norf
IMO

 

[El Topo]

I just want to throw this idea out there. And I would prefer no Disneyland or Pollyanna influenced responses. Ok?!

Did the loss to Brisbane tell us that we are really behind them and North in our development despite being higher on the ladder than those two teams?

If so where are we going or not going?

After 2015 the task for SOS was to replace everyone on the list who isn't Docherty and Cripps. Brisbane already had some young talent, plus they have the academy advantage. Plus they have senior mids that won't need replacing in 2-3 years time.

I'd say their list is ahead but the fact that it's so close, given the above factors, is testament to SOS and Bolts doing more with less.

Don't worry about Norf, they're still on the way down.