Adam Simpson and his inability to give youth a go

[kaiserchief13]

Don't need McGovern. Need an inside/outside mid with some speed

 

[W.C. Fry]

Darling does get a bit of a rough go around here. 19th in the Coleman atm. Would be the leading goal kicker in 7 other sides. Not too bad playing 2nd fiddle behind Kennedy. Only GWS has a better performing 2nd tall forward.

 

[Adz]

Confirmed Le Cras will play this week!

 

[Sweet Jesus]

The error came at the start of this season when WC thought they could have a decent season, even in Naitanui's absence. In reality, that was always going to put a ceiling on what was possible in 2017. They should have recognised this and more aggressively pushed through some young players. They'd be better placed for 2018 had they done that. Instead, it's only now dawning on them that this is the way forward.

Look at the way Sydney went young at the start of 2017. They've given themselves a whole range of options by doing that, and still recovered in time to play finals and maybe even win it this year.

By contrast, WC simply haven't introduced enough new players since the 2015 GF and it's now biting them.

Consider that in 2016, Sydney had seven players debut, while WC had just two. In 2017, Sydney have had six, while WC have had just one.

Are Sydney bottoming out or rebuilding? Hardly. They look to me like they're well and truly "in the window" but have still managed to debut 13 kids in the past two seasons. That's remarkable given they played a GF in 2016 and will go close again in 2017. With just three debutants in that time, WC have been too slow on that score.

 

[Freomaniac]

The error came at the start of this season when WC thought they could have a decent season, even in Naitanui's absence. In reality, that was always going to put a ceiling on what was possible in 2017. They should have recognised this and more aggressively pushed through some young players. They'd be better placed for 2018 had they done that. Instead, it's only now dawning on them that this is the way forward.

Look at the way Sydney went young at the start of 2017. They've given themselves a whole range of options by doing that, and still recovered in time to play finals and maybe even win it this year.

By contrast, WC simply haven't introduced enough new players since the 2015 GF and it's now biting them.

Consider that in 2016, Sydney had seven players debut, while WC had just two. In 2017, Sydney have had six, while WC have had just one.

Are Sydney bottoming out or rebuilding? Hardly. They look to me like they're well and truly "in the window" but have still managed to debut 13 kids in the past two seasons. That's remarkable given they played a GF in 2016 and will go close again in 2017. With just three debutants in that time, WC have been too slow on that score.

And yet freo have given debuts to 7 players this year in logue, Darcy, Balic, Nyhuis, Cox, Ryan, De Luca.



Logue, Darcy and Cox are in our best 22

 

[Sweet Jesus]

And yet freo have given debuts to 7 players this year in logue, Darcy, Balic, Nyhuis, Cox, Ryan, De Luca.

What do you mean "and yet"?

 

[Forward Press]

And yet freo have given debuts to 7 players this year in logue, Darcy, Balic, Nyhuis, Cox, Ryan, De Luca.



Logue, Darcy and Cox are in our best 22

Who cares. Thread is about Simpson and the Eagles and SJ didn't mention Freo.

 

[Freomaniac]

What do you mean "and yet"?

Swans blooded kids at the start of the season. Basically all teams did.

Who cares. Thread is about Simpson and the Eagles and SJ didn't mention Freo.

Well 1st off Lets talk about West coast from 1990 to 1999. They played finals for 10 straight years. Yes They got into grand finals on the back of brilliant WA talent, good coaching, good recruiting an a tiny bit of luck. Hell even when the eagles were getting top 6 from 1995-1999, they always found a way to replenish the list.

About Simpson and his coaching, I will give him credit where Credit is Due, Just Like Malthouse and Worsfold, He got your mob into a grand final. I hope you realise and understand that its hard to make it to the grand final.

I will Bring this up as well FP. Hawthorn had an old squad, they dropped down the ladder. Freo had an Ageing squad, they dropped down the ladder. North had an Ageing squad, they too dropped down the ladder. If I was a betting man and predicted which ageing squad will be next to drop, my money is on your mob.

The eagles side that was fielded in the derby had an average age of 27 years old. That's old. I wont deny your team has quality players on the list. But unless you want to avoid the drop as badly as freo, I would advise your mob to play some youth.

 

[Jiggyman]

It's "No McGoverns", we're allowed to have 1.

 

[Forward Press]

I will Bring this up as well FP. Hawthorn had an old squad, they dropped down the ladder. Freo had an Ageing squad, they dropped down the ladder. North had an Ageing squad, they too dropped down the ladder. If I was a betting man and predicted which ageing squad will be next to drop, my money is on your mob.

The eagles side that was fielded in the derby had an average age of 27 years old. That's old. I wont deny your team has quality players on the list. But unless you want to avoid the drop as badly as freo, I would advise your mob to play some youth.

No s**t. I fully expect a drop down the ladder next year, if not the year after. I don't pretend we're immune to what happened to Hawthorn, Freo and North.

I am not unrealistic and I don't expect us to win the next three flags with kids. We're not Manchester United 1996. I think I am quite reasonable though in believing some of our youth is quality, some of our senior players are still very good, and that I think we can avoid a precipitous drop when we inevitably rebuild.

 

[largebus]

I don't get why Priddis is hounded to retire when plenty other players have fallen of as well? LeCras, Masten, Butler, I'm sure there's others are all more useless than Priddis, who for all his faults at least offers tackling pressure at contests.

 

[Freomaniac]

No s**t. I fully expect a drop down the ladder next year, if not the year after. I don't pretend we're immune to what happened to Hawthorn, Freo and North.

I am not unrealistic and I don't expect us to win the next three flags with kids. We're not Manchester United 1996. I think I am quite reasonable though in believing some of our youth is quality, some of our senior players are still very good, and that I think we can avoid a precipitous drop when we inevitably rebuild.

I get the Man united of 1996 reference with Beckham, Scholes, Neville etc.

See, if you guys were bottom 4, you wouldn't of got Petrie, they would of drafted a rookie ruckman and rotated him with McInnes and Giles.

 

[Scotland]

Well 1st off Lets talk about West coast from 1990 to 1999. They played finals for 10 straight years. Yes They got into grand finals on the back of brilliant WA talent, good coaching, good recruiting an a tiny bit of luck. Hell even when the eagles were getting top 6 from 1995-1999, they always found a way to replenish the list.

Best we don't talk about WC after 1999.

We won 16, 19, 15.5, 12, 16, 14, 15 games from 1990-1996. After that we won 13, 12, 12, scraped into the finals with low percentages and won 1 final from starts from 1997-1999. Our time was the early to mid 90s. By the late 90s we were just hanging on but no threat. Malthouse was good at getting the most out of players, but he did his best work coaching the group he inherited. I'd say our list regeneration during the 90s was poor.

Banfield, Braun, Cousins, Embley, Fletcher, Wirrpanda, Rowan Jones were the only players from the Malthouse era (1990-1999) who featured in the 2006 flag. Of 33 players used in Malthouse's last year only 9 were still on the list in 2006. 7 years is a long time in footy list turnover, but there was plenty of dead wood. When I think Malthouse era recruiting I think wasted early picks like Fewster, Sikora, Blurton, Crabb, Hill and triers like Chambers, Chad Morrison, Phil Read, Rintoul, Andrew Williams etc.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Swans blooded kids at the start of the season. Basically all teams did.

I still don't follow.

What does it have to do with Freo?

 

[kane249]

I don't get why Priddis is hounded to retire when plenty other players have fallen of as well? LeCras, Masten, Butler, I'm sure there's others are all more useless than Priddis, who for all his faults at least offers tackling pressure at contests.

LeCras has been copping a lot of heat recently.
Masten is already out of the side and looks like he will be spending more time at East Perth next season.
Butler is injured at the moment but is 99.99% sure to retire end of this year.

 

[Freomaniac]

Best we don't talk about WC after 1999.

We won 16, 19, 15.5, 12, 16, 14, 15 games from 1990-1996. After that we won 13, 12, 12, scraped into the finals with low percentages and won 1 final from starts from 1997-1999. Our time was the early to mid 90s. By the late 90s we were just hanging on but no threat. Malthouse was good at getting the most out of players, but he did his best work coaching the group he inherited. I'd say our list regeneration during the 90s was poor.

Banfield, Braun, Cousins, Embley, Fletcher, Wirrpanda, Rowan Jones were the only players from the Malthouse era (1990-1999) who featured in the 2006 flag. Of 33 players used in Malthouse's last year only 9 were still on the list in 2006. 7 years is a long time in footy list turnover, but there was plenty of dead wood. When I think Malthouse era recruiting I think wasted early picks like Fewster, Sikora, Blurton, Crabb, Hill and triers like Chambers, Chad Morrison, Phil Read, Rintoul, Andrew Williams etc.

When I looked at this, I was surprised there were only 7 blokes from the 1990s that played in the 2005-6 grand finals, I was assuming it was 10 if you included Michael Gardiner and Phillip Matera, but both blokes played in the 2005 GF.

Another thing I will bring up was that It was easy to see why Eagles became good from 1990-96. All they had to do was pick the best local talent. I think eagles decline from 1997 onwards was go to do with the Victorian sides recruiting more guys from the WAFL with their 1st rounders. Ironically from around the same time, West coast started to recruit some more Victorian players too

 

[Sweet Jesus]

It will be fascinating to see how deep WC cuts this off-season. If they're aggressive, it could be a serious turnover.

Mitchell, Petrie, Butler (UFA), LeCras (UFA), Giles, Mackenzie (RFA), Hill, Schofield, Masten, Tunbridge, McInnes and Lamb could all go.

Only Mitchell should be considered best 22 in 2018 if he stays. Probably need to keep one of Mackenzie or Schofield as back-up.

And I reckon the likes of Wellingham, Hutchings are no certainties either. Although WC are probably too conservative to go that deep.

The only thing saving Redden and Jetta from being on this s**t list is that they're "new recruits". And I guess Priddis stays because he just signed a new deal.

The worrying thing is there's not much trade value in that list. Ideally, WC should be trying to move on a chunk of players and then go into the draft with 4-5 picks by the end of the second round. Although I'm not sure that's achievable without losing a player they'd prefer to keep.

Nonetheless, I don't think it's unrealistic to imagine WC will have to make calls on at least a dozen players at season's end. And how deep they cut will determine the club's fortunes in the immediate and medium term.

With all this in mind, WC could turnover the list, invest heavily in the draft and then go into 2018 with this nominal best 22:

B: Jackson Nelson - Tom Barrass - Brad Sheppard
HB: Shannon Hurn - Jeremy McGovern - Tom Cole
C: Andrew Gaff - Dom Sheed - Liam Duggan
HF: Lewis Jetta - Jack Darling - Jamie Cripps
F: Malcolm Karpany - Josh Kennedy - Nathan Vardy
R: Nic Naitanui - Elliot Yeo - Luke Shuey
Int: Matt Priddis - Jack Redden - Luke Partington - Daniel Venables

Even when I look at that 22, I don't think it's uncompetitive. But there's a weird cognitive dissonance – the discrepancy between the assessment of the talent at WC's disposal and their consistent flakiness. That's the source of the frustration among WC fans, in my opinion: the view that, on paper, WC should be significantly more competitive than they have been. And now, as a result of those shortcomings, they have to be ruthless.

 

[Freomaniac]

I still don't follow.

What does it have to do with Freo?

Remember when Freo finished top of the ladder in 2015 then bottom 4 the next year and All the anti freo people started to sink the boots in? I can at least explain the Partial drop off. Part of it was an ageing squad, Part of it was injuries and Bad luck. But everyone sank the boots in when freo dropped. People forget we lost to Carlton by under a goal that killed our confidence. Lost by 3 goals at subi to GWS and Geelong who were both prelim finalists. Also we lost to the suns twice by 4 goals ach as well. Freo were garbage but not to the point where we got only 4 wins. we should of got 7-9 wins last year.

So what do you do when you are in the bottom 4? Rebuild and play the youf.

So we hit 2017, Freo get belted by Cats at home by 40 points and lose by 89 points to Port in Adelaide. Some Freo fans wanted Lyon sacked. I posted what I thought and backed the rebuild.

Then came round 3 vs the Dogs at Subi. Freo were given no hope. Freo beat the dogs by 16 points with a younger squad. Then we beat the demons by 2 points at the MCG then beat North at home by 5 points when we trailed most of the game. Hell Freo might not win a game this year and end up with 7 wins and 15 defeats. Put it this way, I rather see freo get 7 wins this year with a very young and hungry, motivated and competitive squad than get 4 wins in 2016 with an ageing unmotivated, uncompetitive, crap and lazy squad.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Remember when Freo finished top of the ladder in 2015 then bottom 4 the next year and All the anti freo people started to sink the boots in? I can at least explain the Partial drop off. Part of it was an ageing squad, Part of it was injuries and Bad luck. But everyone sank the boots in when freo dropped. People forget we lost to Carlton by under a goal that killed our confidence. Lost by 3 goals at subi to GWS and Geelong who were both prelim finalists. Also we lost to the suns twice by 4 goals ach as well. Freo were garbage but not to the point where we got only 4 wins. we should of got 7-9 wins last year.

So what do you do when you are in the bottom 4? Rebuild and play the youf.

So we hit 2017, Freo get belted by Cats at home by 40 points and lose by 89 points to Port in Adelaide. Some Freo fans wanted Lyon sacked. I posted what I thought and backed the rebuild.

Then came round 3 vs the Dogs at Subi. Freo were given no hope. Freo beat the dogs by 16 points with a younger squad. Then we beat the demons by 2 points at the MCG then beat North at home by 5 points when we trailed most of the game. Hell Freo might not win a game this year and end up with 7 wins and 15 defeats. Put it this way, I rather see freo get 7 wins this year with a very young and hungry, motivated and competitive squad than get 4 wins in 2016 with an ageing unmotivated, uncompetitive, crap and lazy squad.

I still don't understand what my earlier post had to do with Freo.

I'm not sure how you made the connection.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Priddis out

Young bloke in

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Need an inside/outside mid with some speed

Why don't WC just draft Chris Judd again?

 

[Ok Boomer]

Remember when Freo finished top of the ladder in 2015 then bottom 4 the next year and All the anti freo people started to sink the boots in? I can at least explain the Partial drop off. Part of it was an ageing squad, Part of it was injuries and Bad luck. But everyone sank the boots in when freo dropped. People forget we lost to Carlton by under a goal that killed our confidence. Lost by 3 goals at subi to GWS and Geelong who were both prelim finalists. Also we lost to the suns twice by 4 goals ach as well. Freo were garbage but not to the point where we got only 4 wins. we should of got 7-9 wins last year.

So what do you do when you are in the bottom 4? Rebuild and play the youf.

So we hit 2017, Freo get belted by Cats at home by 40 points and lose by 89 points to Port in Adelaide. Some Freo fans wanted Lyon sacked. I posted what I thought and backed the rebuild.

Then came round 3 vs the Dogs at Subi. Freo were given no hope. Freo beat the dogs by 16 points with a younger squad. Then we beat the demons by 2 points at the MCG then beat North at home by 5 points when we trailed most of the game. Hell Freo might not win a game this year and end up with 7 wins and 15 defeats. Put it this way, I rather see freo get 7 wins this year with a very young and hungry, motivated and competitive squad than get 4 wins in 2016 with an ageing unmotivated, uncompetitive, crap and lazy squad.

Pretty sure the thread is about Adam Simpson, not Freo youf and its season.

 

[Freomaniac]

Pretty sure the thread is about Adam Simpson, not Freo youf and its season.

Well of course. But As I said earlier, Hawks had an Ageing squad, they dropped, So did Freo, So did North.

Eventually West Coast will follow that drop sooner or later. Again fielding a team averaging 27 years old in a Derby isn't a good sign unless your team is in the top 4. If any team Fielded a team similar to west coast in the derby and was bottom 4, People would come out of the wood work for the squad to be culled. West coast are a mid table side At the moment.

 

[Yellow Feathers]

It will be fascinating to see how deep WC cuts this off-season. If they're aggressive, it could be a serious turnover.

Mitchell, Petrie, Butler (UFA), LeCras (UFA), Giles, Mackenzie (RFA), Hill, Schofield, Masten, Tunbridge, McInnes and Lamb could all go.

Only Mitchell should be considered best 22 in 2018 if he stays. Probably need to keep one of Mackenzie or Schofield as back-up.

And I reckon the likes of Wellingham, Hutchings are no certainties either. Although WC are probably too conservative to go that deep.

The only thing saving Redden and Jetta from being on this s**t list is that they're "new recruits". And I guess Priddis stays because he just signed a new deal.

The worrying thing is there's not much trade value in that list. Ideally, WC should be trying to move on a chunk of players and then go into the draft with 4-5 picks by the end of the second round. Although I'm not sure that's achievable without losing a player they'd prefer to keep.

Nonetheless, I don't think it's unrealistic to imagine WC will have to make calls on at least a dozen players at season's end. And how deep they cut will determine the club's fortunes in the immediate and medium term.

With all this in mind, WC could turnover the list, invest heavily in the draft and then go into 2018 with this nominal best 22:

B: Jackson Nelson - Tom Barrass - Brad Sheppard
HB: Shannon Hurn - Jeremy McGovern - Tom Cole
C: Andrew Gaff - Dom Sheed - Liam Duggan
HF: Lewis Jetta - Jack Darling - Jamie Cripps
F: Malcolm Karpany - Josh Kennedy - Nathan Vardy
R: Nic Naitanui - Elliot Yeo - Luke Shuey
Int: Matt Priddis - Jack Redden - Luke Partington - Daniel Venables

Even when I look at that 22, I don't think it's uncompetitive. But there's a weird cognitive dissonance – the discrepancy between the assessment of the talent at WC's disposal and their consistent flakiness. That's the source of the frustration among WC fans, in my opinion: the view that, on paper, WC should be significantly more competitive than they have been. And now, as a result of those shortcomings, they have to be ruthless.

Why is Partington on that list? He's been the best player in the WAFL for months, and has barely got a spot on the extended bench this week.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Why is Partington on that list? He's been the best player in the WAFL for months, and has barely got a spot on the extended bench this week.

Huh? On what list?

If WC turn over the list at the end of the season, I'd expect Partington to play more football in 2018.