Bluemour Discussion Thread IV

[PP34]

But they can.

I am guessing it is just frowned upon

Almost certain that isn't the case.

 

[Red Bull]

But they can.

I am guessing it is just frowned upon

Why would a player sign a contract with a club they don't want to play for ?
A club cannot transfer a player to a club the player doesn't want to play for .
The club cannot make the player go to the club they would prefer to deal with .

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

GWS have 4 options.

1. Keep Kelly if he will re-sign

2. Convince Kelly to nominate more than one club

3. Trade Kelly to the club he wants to go to

4. Get nothing and he can go into the draft

 

[RudyBlue]

If we lose Gibbs and don't get Kelly we are in real bad shape for 2018. That's spoon territory.

Even just swapping Kelly for Gibbs keeps the midfield at par as Murphy will start to decline.

You're not factoring in organic growth.

It would reasonable to assume Cuningham, SPS, Fisher and Polson will all receive more midfield time and likely improve their output. Willo and Charlie may also spend more time through there.

Look at how SPS has thrived with more responsibility in the middle in the last few weeks.

This being said, I'd prefer to keep Gibbs and get Kelly. If Kelly's contract price is way too high, something like pick 2 for Hopper and Kennedy would be lovely.

 

[katmanblue]

And that's the thing, Adelaide don't have any quality mids apart from Sloane and if they did, they wouldn't be trading them to us.

The only way to mitigate the loss of Gibbs is to bring in Kelly.

If we get pick #9 from them (Demons give them that pick for Lever) then we can take that to the draft and use pick 2 for Kelly.

It has been suggested we couple pick 2+9 for Kelly+Hopper which would be a pretty good outcome but I highly doubt GWS will let them both go. If Kelly goes then they'll give Hopper more cash to stay.

Another thing to consider is if Gibbs requests a trade again, then we may have to let him go because we can't keep a guy who doesn't want to be here. It's possible we take pick 9 and maybe a 2018 2nd for him and then we don't get Kelly. That'll put us in a position to finish last again unfortunately.

I didn't mean from Adelaide. I meant it overall like we got Marchbank+ for 2e+, separate trades but effectively this for that.

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[katmanblue]

But they can.

I am guessing it is just frowned upon

Players has to approve trade.

So if its a toss up between clubs, then he might say ok to the 2nd club. But if it's 'hell no', they cant be forced there.

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[katmanblue]

You're not factoring in organic growth.

It would reasonable to assume Cuningham, SPS, Fisher and Polson will all receive more midfield time and likely improve their output. Willo and Charlie may also spend more time through there.

Look at how SPS has thrived with more responsibility in the middle in the last few weeks.

This being said, I'd prefer to keep Gibbs and get Kelly. If Kelly's contract price is way too high, something like pick 2 for Hopper and Kennedy would be lovely.

The growth and development of the young guys wont be linear. It will be in fits and starts, they will plateau, they will grow.

How many of the 1st years (sps, willow, fisher, macreadie even Mckay) will get 2nd year blues?

They will all have rough patches, but we will just need to ride them out. I back the boys in to continue to get better, i just dont think it will be as smooth as we would hope.

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[Space Cadet]

Regarding going backwards next season, I'm pretty confident at the very least 3 or 4 of our young players can really cement themselves and have breakout years. With young talented players, they generally hit their stride in their 3rd year (see doc, cripps*, marchbank, or the young top level players at any other club).
We have roughly 9 first and 2nd year players in our team. 10 if you put Pickett in this group. Heaps of room for natural improvement.

Still need more ready to go midfield depth however.

*Cripps broke out in his 2nd year.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

If we got pick 9 for Gibbs I'll kiss SOSs feet, no way known would there be a second rounder thrown in as well.
That's the dream scenario, Kelly for pick 1/2 and receive Gibbs for 9 and go to the draft with a decent pick for a mid.
Casboult for pick after our second and get another mid in the draft.

 

[Wickzki]

GWS have 4 options.

1. Keep Kelly if he will re-sign

2. Convince Kelly to nominate more than one club

3. Trade Kelly to the club he wants to go to

4. Get nothing and he can go into the draft

I'll take option 4 for $500, Bob.

Josh Kelly can make the PSD great again.

 

[StandByyourMan]

GWS have 4 options.

1. Keep Kelly if he will re-sign

2. Convince Kelly to nominate more than one club

3. Trade Kelly to the club he wants to go to

4. Get nothing and he can go into the draft

And this is precisely why pick 2 gets the job done. Deal for Whitfield and/or Smith/Kennedy seperately. We won't get Hopper AND Kelly.

 

[StandByyourMan]

Jarrad McVeigh..in a sam Mitchell type role, so does that mean he will play one year then coach?

Played well the other night, oodles of experience

McVeigh yes. Tough as nails.

 

[PP34]

You're not factoring in organic growth.

It would reasonable to assume Cuningham, SPS, Fisher and Polson will all receive more midfield time and likely improve their output. Willo and Charlie may also spend more time through there.

Look at how SPS has thrived with more responsibility in the middle in the last few weeks.

This being said, I'd prefer to keep Gibbs and get Kelly. If Kelly's contract price is way too high, something like pick 2 for Hopper and Kennedy would be lovely.

Young players are not really consistent with their growth. They have ups and downs as they struggle with fatigue, tags, structures etc.

If we lose Gibbs and Simpson retires that makes for a worrisome reliance on youngsters.

That worked out terribly for Melbourne when they lacked veterans to provide leadership.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

McVeigh yes. Tough as nails.

And he delivers the ball very well from the back half. Great at spotting up corridor options.

 

[dumb]

bit meh on mcveigh. no issues on his leadership or doing some coaching, but i think we'd need him for more than a year to cover the losses we're thinking of.
that, and we got to watch malceski move out of the sydney system and it didn't end well for gc (and that's before thinking about his injury-led retirement).

 

[therubbernub]

*Cripps broke out in his 2nd year.

No wonder! have you seen what's Bunsen Byrning?
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2016-07-25/whats-bunsen-byrning-mckay

 

[Tushay]

McVeigh would be the first true leader that this club has had since Judd.

Absolutely, yes. Would help instill all the right systems and attributes and then if he stepped into an assistant coaching role while he developed as a coach before going back to the Swans then that'd be an amazing get.

You can't be serious. Simmo? Kreuz? Murphy? Cripps? All of these have shown strong leadership since Judd retired.

If you mean "we've not had a premiership captain since Judd - who was also a premiership captain before he got to us" then yes, sure.

 

[Tushay]

Letting Simmo retire so we can bring in McVeigh is a zero sum gain, possibly a loss. Same player except Simmo more courageous and has bled blue for many years. Pointless move.

 

[Blue Pulse]

The McVeigh talk sounds good in theory but it hasn't worked so well in practice for Melbourne or West Coast with Lewis and Mitchell. It may sound easier than it actually appears to be, as Mcveigh has to get his head around a whole new game plan and then instruct a team who is ahead of him in the game style as well as work out his team mates strengths and weaknesses. As a coach, not a problem, as a player, might be a bit hard.
Lewis may have more influence next season if he can keep his thuggery out of the game.
Daisy, Simpson and Mcveigh, we are not good enough to carry these guys if they aren't at their peak.

 

[Laurence]

You can't be serious. Simmo? Kreuz? Murphy? Cripps? All of these have shown strong leadership since Judd retired.

If you mean "we've not had a premiership captain since Judd - who was also a premiership captain before he got to us" then yes, sure.

Simmo as a leader, yes. Kruez and Crippa are leaders by example, but unfortunately for MK injuries have limited this.

In regards to our skipper, I'm a fan of his ability and service to the club over the years. Dont get me wrong, he is a great role model to the kids coming through, however as for being our club captain is questionable in my opinion.

Would love to see Doc and Crippa co captain the side starting next year

 

[ajb72]

The McVeigh talk sounds good in theory but it hasn't worked so well in practice for Melbourne or West Coast with Lewis and Mitchell. It may sound easier than it actually appears to be, as Mcveigh has to get his head around a whole new game plan and then instruct a team who is ahead of him in the game style as well as work out his team mates strengths and weaknesses. As a coach, not a problem, as a player, might be a bit hard.
Lewis may have more influence next season if he can keep his thuggery out of the game.
Daisy, Simpson and Mcveigh, we are not good enough to carry these guys if they aren't at their peak.

I agree. While I rate McVeigh, I just dont think it works.

I'd argue West Coast are worse than they were last year.

Not to mention it is round 20/21 and McVeigh has taken all year to get his body right.

 

[mickelboy182]

Letting Simmo retire so we can bring in McVeigh is a zero sum gain, possibly a loss. Same player except Simmo more courageous and has bled blue for many years. Pointless move.

Exactly my thoughts. Everyone is saying Simmo is done, yet he's playing better than McVeigh

 

[ferrisb]

I cant handle another bottom 2 finish next year. We have sucked for so long.

Probably not bluemour worthy, but my boss was chatting to a Carlton assistant coach's wife on the weekend.

Paraphrasing a 2nd-hand conversation here, but she said something along the lines of....

'The fans and media might be happy with Carlton this year, but Bolton isn't'.

My boss didn't delve too deep, but he left the conversation with the impression that 'Bolton is a hardass and doesn't take too kindly to losing'.

We know the rebuild is going to take time and there's going to be some pain along the way, but Bolts isn't sitting back, making excuses and saying 'we'll be right in a few years'. He wants to win, and he wants to win now (as much as we can). Not exactly groundbreaking stuff, but good to hear nonetheless.

 

[katmanblue]

I agree. While I rate McVeigh, I just dont think it works.

I'd argue West Coast are worse than they were last year.

Not to mention it is round 20/21 and McVeigh has taken all year to get his body right.

Wc arent worse because of the Mitchell trade though. They are worse in general. Mitchell was BOG in more than one game this year.

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[Schoonerman]

Exactly my thoughts. Everyone is saying Simmo is done, yet he's playing better than McVeigh

Sorry mate, cant agree with this..McVeigh was awesome on Friday nite whereas Simmo has been struggling for awhile