List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion (cont in Pt 2)

[SaintsSeptember]

Not really interested in a player who's likely to 9 or 10 disposals in an important game.
We have Ben Long

on liam ryan none that i have heard, but with any interstate player or player moving from a regional area it would be a concern

it is worth noting that he came down to Perth at the start of last year from near Geraldton. So he's already moved away from friends and family. he came down and lived with his grand mother from memory

its no different to a lot of the WAFL Colts kids that end up getting drafted, a lot of them aren't from Perth and are brought in from the different recruitment pathways. for example ainsworth is from esperance. SPS was from up north. etc. etc.

A four hour drive is not quite the same as a day's worth of airports and flying

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Stringer would be a disaster for the Saints. With Roo and Joey gone we are now officially a young team that lacks a bit of outside pace - "let's bring in a guy that is lazy, overweight, slow, can't handle authority, has off-field issues and frankly has not played good footy for about 18 months"..........that is a terrific idea and would go down with the recruiting of Lee, Lovett, Peake and McQualter.

Hey! Leave Peake alone, he did ok, at least worked hard at it .

 

[borderbarry]

I would be excited to get either Liam Ryan or Tim Kelly at Pick 43. I think Richo would be too.

 

[plugger66]

Lee did kick 60 then he busted his left shoulder -- he didnt get it fixed straight away as he wanted to make an impact at the saints early so going through the rehab straight up wouldnt have allowed that - unfortunatly he then did his right shoulder and that stuffed it all up for him , he couldnt do weights he lost a lot of confidence and got over taken by a guy slated as a defender in Bruce , we then pushed him as a defender and were shocked he didnt do well ... Lee was a player he just had an unfortunate set of setbacks that derailed him

He was to slow and had no defensive skills at all.


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[st_trav_ofWA]

He was to slow and had no defensive skills at all.


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he was injured and laked condition to do the role .. the games he actually played in he was alright ... but you obviously dont rate him so theres no point discussing further

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I would be excited to get either Liam Ryan or Tim Kelly at Pick 43. I think Richo would be too.

Kelly might last that late .. i think Liam Ryan go's second round to West Coast.. they are keen from what i hear

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Not really interested in a player who's likely to 9 or 10 disposals in an important game.
We have Ben Long

A four hour drive is not quite the same as a day's worth of airports and flying

talking to people at Subi i dont think thats a concern he would play on the moon if it meant getting on an AFL list

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If we keep our first picks, I think i'd like Brayshaw and Higgins.

 

[plugger66]

he was injured and laked condition to do the role .. the games he actually played in he was alright ... but you obviously dont rate him so theres no point discussing further

You are right and neither did the coach. I just have a problem with goalkickers in the lower comps. I don't mind the mids but its so much harder to kick goals in todays footy even for the stars let alone the guys who aren't stars.

 

[StCicatriz]

Not really interested in a player who's likely to 9 or 10 disposals in an important game.
We have Ben Long

A four hour drive is not quite the same as a day's worth of airports and flying

Lol what.

What makes you think long and Ryan are the same.

They are two completely different players. Name one of our players who has kicked 40-50 goals as a 19 year old at any level. I'll wait...

4hr flight to Melb. 4 and half hour drive to geraldton. Same time. That's without factoring in he might be significantly out of Geraldton.

 

[triggering bro]

If we keep our first picks, I think i'd like Brayshaw and Higgins.

According to Callum Twomey Brayshaw will go top 10-12 & good chance to go top 10. He describes him as having an alround game. Quick, tough & has decent skills.

183cm, 80kgs. On the weekend he had 25 disposals, 7 tackles & 6 clearances.

I wouldn't be upset if we called out his name at 7 or 8.

 

[screw the blues]

Have been told Subiaco have had trouble with Liam Ryan , and "attitude issues" , were the words used. I'm with Clarko and his no D***head policy. Elshaugh must screen Liam Ryan ultra closely if interested. Same screening is needed with Stringer. Our clubs screening of players has been somewhat ordinary on that and the medical front in the recent past.

 

[aussierulesrules]

According to Callum Twomey Brayshaw will go top 10-12 & good chance to go top 10. He describes him as having an alround game. Quick, tough & has decent skills.

183cm, 80kgs. On the weekend he had 25 disposals, 7 tackles & 6 clearances.

I wouldn't be upset if we called out his name at 7 or 8.

Yeah he's apparently nothing super-flashy, but keeps playing well week after week, finding plenty of the ball inside and out, kicks well and efficiently (high DE, hits targets going forward), averages a stack of tackles and has solid speed.

Is not the type that has a way-high ceiling, but is the type you can rely on and where something would probably have to go very awry for him to not have a very good 12+ year career. Like a Joey.

Seems on a similar type level to Ollie Florent, who he played with at Sandy last year and I asked Don Patch Sword to compare the two and he thought it was a great question and extremely difficult to split them, but leaned slightly to Brayshaw.

A really safe looking bet, along with Hunter Clarke in maybe a similar range.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Reminds me of Cotchin a bit with the way he moves and plays. Also a bit of Sincs about him. Would be perfectly happy with him I reckon.

Suspect that an AFL club would encourage him to kick the ball more though. Seems a bit too unselfish.

Is also one of the youngest in this draft class, with a November birthday. So he's closer in age to plenty of next year's draft than many of this year's, as are Coffield, Rayner, Dow, Naughton, Cerra etc.

 

[PaddysurDaddy]

I'm not sold on hunter clark's kicking/decision making - bit of a bomber

as long as we have 7 and 8 I hope our recruiters think of it with a 'sum of the parts' kinda view.

As long as we get either some run or kicking class I'll be happy

Would love it if Dow slipped, he looks brill, and I still reckon DFog is worth grabbing, looks a footballer and kicking has improved. Coffield might be a stretch but would be worth it for his composure and boot. Cerra/Brayshaw look a little vanilla but I have only watched highlights. O'brien seems out of favour but looked good early and uses it well.

I feel we're in a good position with 7 and 8, reckon we should hold onto them rather than trade up. Rayner and LDU look good but not that much better than the others..

Let's just hope we don't get too cute come draft night!

 

[triggering bro]

Yeah he's apparently nothing super-flashy, but keeps playing well week after week, finding plenty of the ball inside and out, kicks well and efficiently (high DE, hits targets going forward), averages a stack of tackles and has solid speed.

Is not the type that has a way-high ceiling, but is the type you can rely on and where something would probably have to go very awry for him to not have a very good 12+ year career. Like a Joey.

Seems on a similar type level to Ollie Florent, who he played with at Sandy last year and I asked Don Patch Sword to compare the two and he thought it was a great question and extremely difficult to split them, but leaned slightly to Brayshaw.

A really safe looking bet, along with Hunter Clarke in maybe a similar range.

Reminds me of Cotchin a bit with the way he moves and plays. Also a bit of Sincs about him. Would be perfectly happy with him I reckon.

Is also one of the youngest in this draft class, with a November birthday.

I'm definitely warming to the idea of picking Brayshaw. As you said, low risk, bulletproof selection. Very zippy. From the naked eye he seems a bit quicker than Angus but not as physically built at the same age.

I watched the Rays vs Falcons live stream & paid particular attention to Hunter Clark (amongst a few others). What I did notice about him that hasn't been spoken about is his kicking skills. Very good on either side & seemed to find space out of congestion so whilst not overly quick he had no issues finding separation. Was the Rays best imo.

Also kept a close eye on LDU. He just looks like he's gonna be a very good AFL player. Interesting that you compared Brayshaw to Cotchin cos LDU reminded me of a young Cotchin. The way he moves around the stoppages, hunches over & holds the footy like a rugby dumby half. Absolute vice like hands & doesn't fumble. Booming kick too. After seeing a few highlights here & there & the weekends game I find it hard to believe he doesn't go pick 1. Admittedly I haven't seen much of Dow though. I'd have LDU over Rayner based on the fact you know he makes the grade as an extremely balanced mid that can also rest forward.

Weak draft? Maybe but I'm seeing some very nice options in the first round.

 

[plugger66]

I'm definitely warming to the idea of picking Brayshaw. As you said, low risk, bulletproof selection. Very zippy. From the naked eye he seems a bit quicker than Angus but not as physically built at the same age.

I watched the Rays vs Falcons live stream & paid particular attention to Hunter Clark (amongst a few others). What I did notice about him that hasn't been spoken about is his kicking skills. Very good on either side & seemed to find space out of congestion so whilst not overly quick he had no issues finding separation. Was the Rays best imo.

Also kept a close eye on LDU. He just looks like he's gonna be a very good AFL player. Interesting that you compared Brayshaw to Cotchin cos LDU reminded me of a young Cotchin. The way he moves around the stoppages, hunches over & holds the footy like a rugby dumby half. Absolute vice like hands & doesn't fumble. Booming kick too. After seeing a few highlights here & there & the weekends game I find it hard to believe he doesn't go pick 1. Admittedly I haven't seen much of Dow though. I'd have LDU over Rayner based on the fact you know he makes the grade as an extremely balanced mid that can also rest forward.

Weak draft? Maybe but I'm seeing some very nice options in the first round.

Brayshaw is a good pick between 10 and 15. Rather stringer even if played like this year.


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[triggering bro]

Brayshaw is a good pick between 10 and 15. Rather stringer even if played like this year.


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Yea that seems about his draft range according to a few media draft watches.

I'm off the Stringer wagon. Too many question marks over why such a talent is departing the Dogs.

We are a young & impressionable list, I don't think the risk is worth it. The Bombers are in a better position to take the risk on him.

Also not sold on Stringer finding consistency again. He's been extremely inconsistent the past two years. Talents obviously there though.

 

[PaddysurDaddy]

I'm definitely warming to the idea of picking Brayshaw. As you said, low risk, bulletproof selection. Very zippy. From the naked eye he seems a bit quicker than Angus but not as physically built at the same age.

I watched the Rays vs Falcons live stream & paid particular attention to Hunter Clark (amongst a few others). What I did notice about him that hasn't been spoken about is his kicking skills. Very good on either side & seemed to find space out of congestion so whilst not overly quick he had no issues finding separation. Was the Rays best imo.

Also kept a close eye on LDU. He just looks like he's gonna be a very good AFL player. Interesting that you compared Brayshaw to Cotchin cos LDU reminded me of a young Cotchin. The way he moves around the stoppages, hunches over & holds the footy like a rugby dumby half. Absolute vice like hands & doesn't fumble. Booming kick too. After seeing a few highlights here & there & the weekends game I find it hard to believe he doesn't go pick 1. Admittedly I haven't seen much of Dow though. I'd have LDU over Rayner based on the fact you know he makes the grade as an extremely balanced mid that can also rest forward.

Weak draft? Maybe but I'm seeing some very nice options in the first round.

well this just goes to show i probably have no idea re hunter!

 

[StCicatriz]

Have been told Subiaco have had trouble with Liam Ryan , and "attitude issues" , were the words used. I'm with Clarko and his no D***head policy. Elshaugh must screen Liam Ryan ultra closely if interested. Same screening is needed with Stringer. Our clubs screening of players has been somewhat ordinary on that and the medical front in the recent past.

bit salty from the loss on the weekend just having a lend

is that the same clarko that drafted dayle garlett, had <injuction> gate at their club, made hodge captain over mitchell, had frankalin/daniel chick on the list, recruited vickery and tried to recruit carlisle

what players did we screen badly injury wise?

has kelly attracted much interest? he looked very good on the weekend

 

[triggering bro]

well this just goes to show i probably have no idea re hunter!

Not at all mate. From what I've read his kicking isn't a feature but it's also not a weakness. Chances are you saw a few shockers, I saw a couple of nice kicks. All in the eye of the beholder.

I think it was mentioned by aussierulesrules that there's a bit of noice that North will go Stephenson at pick 4. I suspect they'd love Rayner but he won't get past Carlton & Stephenson is the next best thing in terms of X factor.

If Stephenson does go at 4 it may come down to who GC like at 2 that forces another to slide. Freo & Pies surely go tall?

Hypothetically the top 8 could look something like this:

1 - Bris - Dow/LDU (said to favour Dow but LDU may be too good to pass on)
2 - GC - LDU/Cerra (need inside mids)
3 - Carl - Rayner (at this stage I'm confident more so than not he lands here)
4 - North - Stephenson
5 - Freo - Naughton (local boy & req to sure up tall def stocks)
6 - Pies - Brander (already dominant mid line, need talls)
7 - StK - Coffield (said to have already spent a lot of time on him plus he is super quick)
8 - StK - Cerra/Brayshaw (this is the interesting one & depends which way GC go)

Coffield ticks the boxes as a tall, quick & smoove moving utility.

Cerra a classy ball user & natural mid.

A lot of water to go under the bridge.

Edit: also, anyone know if Dow is rated so highly outside of Bris? He seemed to be talked about in that 5-15 range up until there was a lot of noice Rayner was a flight risk & Bris had interest in Dow at 1. If Bris go LDU at 1 could Dow slide to 7/8?

Double edit: I think myself & others are a bit premature in thinking Freo take Naughton at 5. With Mundy getting on & Fyfe & Neele more inside they could look at an outside meaning mid such as Stephenson (if avail), Dow (if avail) or even Coffield.

 

[Verdun66]

If my Maths is right Andrew Brayshaw is young ( Nov) in his draft year, and Angus old ( Jan). Can be significant at that age. Almost a year.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

You are right and neither did the coach. I just have a problem with goalkickers in the lower comps. I don't mind the mids but its so much harder to kick goals in todays footy even for the stars let alone the guys who aren't stars.

so you dont rate goal kickers from the WAFL but you do rate goal kickers from the TAC... the WAFL players are playing against grown men ofter ex AFL listed (and in some cases current AFL listed) backmen... they dont get the silver service delivery of AFL players but still manage to kick goals...

 

[aussierulesrules]

Re your posts Glen, Hunter Clarke has had a really impressive 2nd half of the season, with some apparently really big, team-lifting games, and going into the season he was being talked up for his excellent, dual-sided kicking, but then once the season started he I believe was having a lot of games with a KE of under 50%, so what was being talked up as a strength going into the year, was suddenly being described as a weakness.

Having read a few opinions on him by those who watch a lot of junior footy, it seems that the issue may be that when he's in tight he doesn't necessarily have the best composure, or decision-making and can just throw it on the boot a bit much, whereas when he's out in time and space he can use it really well and on both feet, so because he was playing across HB last year his kicking prolly looked good out in all that space, but once moved into the guts this year it was nowhere near as good, in confined spaces.

Hopefully it's improved now that he's has time to adjust to the role.

Outside of that, he ticks a lot of boxes, as he's hard and tough, runs both ways, wins plenty of CP's and clearances, tackles a bunch, is good overhead, with a good leap and can hit the ground running and use his good speed to advantage. Plus he's versatile and seems the type to lift his team.

With his mix of attributes and how well he's performed of late in particular, if his dual-sided kicking was as good in tight as it apparently is out in space, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be in the mix for as high as pick 1. Perhaps his composure in tight isn't as good as LDU, Rayner and Dow either?

As for LDU, he was apparently extremely good in the U16's, but then missed a big chunk of last year through injury, but then earlier in the year this season he was killing it week after week- including in the first champs game, when he had 33 possies- but then his form seemed to nose dive a bit out of nowhere, after a really strong start to the next week as well, and it took until that 33 possie final a couple of weeks ago for him to really get it back.

Prior to that form drop out of nowhere he was understandably widely talked up as one who was likely to go pick 1, but the big question is why did his form drop off?

Usually under those type circumstances I would think injury, but I haven't heard of one, so it would be really interesting to find out if there was something he was carrying. If he was, then you'd think he'd be a massive chance to go at 1, as he has a great mix of attributes and was consistently excellent.

As for Dow, I'd say he will definitely be gone by 7 and would be a very good chance of being gone by 2! He really seemed to rise up in everyone's rankings with his good performances in the champs and some really dominant school games (including bags of 7 and 5 or 6 in a couple of games) and he then had a cracker of a game in this last TAC Cup game as well, with 35 possies and I think a goal, after injuring his shoulder early in the game (which has now been operated on, ending his year).

His big weapon is his speed. LDU and Rayner are also quick (2.98 sec 20m, according to Bishop) and Stephenson a bit quicker again (2.96), but according to Bish, Dow recorded a 2.91sec earlier in the year, which is right where D-Mac for instance was in his draft year.

So he can really move and does so through stoppages, winning the ball at speed and then using his excellent agility and speed to get out of trouble and break away and then he can lower his eyes and hit targets going forward and also snag a goal or two.

Think maybe a cleaner version of Jack Steven. If by some chance we managed to trade up to pick 1, it wouldn't surprise me if we picked Dow there and given the ? on Rayner's endurance, I'd possibly pick him there personally as well, as much as I rate Rayner's ability and weapons.

Re Freo and who they pick, I doubt very much that they'd prioritise outside run when they already have Hill x 2, Bennell, Walters, Weller and Langdon. Think they'd be a massive chance to get one of Brander, Naughton, or Fogarty (who it seems is still very much in the mix to go top 6, especially with teams not wanting to go too tall up forward now. He is a good mix of marking ability without being too big).

That is all!

 

[Mighty_sainter]

Fogarty could come into freos calculations as a third tall, you'd think Collingwood will pull trigger on brander. Kinda a must unless they downgrade? Peoples opinions differ in terms of where people will go, cerra touted by BA to go pick 2 (very early mock I know) but that's how high he's rated. LDU seemed to fall out of love a bit but I still think will be top 3. Dow rised up real quick in being talked of a possible top 10 by years end to being possible number 1 pick. Is he rated by recruiters in the top5? Or is it just noise. Rayner I have no doubt to be gone by our pick. If north go bang and take Stephenson. Who we get will really depend on who freo go for. Unless we hear clearer closer to the draft what way freo is gonna go, they could take cerra if available as a standout mid or could go taller innfogarty a position/type they lack. Coffield seems kinda a no brainer to me ticks all our boxes. Cerra a dream if he's there, is everything our midfield lacks. Not sure we would go Brayshaw solid mid but no real potential superstar upside you could debate. 7/8 stkll a beauty of a position regardless of what happens in the trade period