Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[Art Vandelay_]

Buck stops at the top. Fish rots from the head, etc. Face the facts. See post re. Scott's abysmal finals record where historically he is ranked 71 out of 78 for coaches record in finals - and that INCLUDES the 2011 season. Happy with that? Thank he shouldn't be accountable for a decent amount of that?

Didn’t read a word. Ciao.

 

[Spazz Cat]

You haven't been playing this game long.

Home and away record and the 2011 premiership? He's a genius, deserves all the credit (I agree with the credit for the premiership).

Finals record? He may have some influence, but it's not really his fault. He hasn't had the players / draft picks / injuries / umpires / playing at opponent's home ground / players haven't had time to gel / poor list / unlucky / alignment of planets / grassy knoll.

My favourite is we've just got a poor list and don't have the players. Oh well can't help that.
But then Richmond are apparently lucky and HTF? Did they win a flag with their players.

 

[Partridge]

My favourite is we've just got a poor list and don't have the players. Oh well can't help that.
But then Richmond are apparently lucky and HTF? Did they win a flag with their players.

Yeah that's right. Lucky.

Kept Geelong to their lowest score of the year. Lucky. Kept Adelaide to their lowest score of the year. Lucky. Won all three finals by very comfortable margins. Lucky. Obviously.

 

[dazbroncos]

So what do I expect from Scott next year? win enough games at home to make the top 4, lose a couple of games we're expected to win, lose after the bye and finally flop in finals again. Same shit different year.

So...

so you in 2 years then?

Awesome!

Go Catters

 

[catempire]

Look at the flat earthers up and about!

 

[dazbroncos]

Hahaha the A league!!!!

The only thing he'll pick up to teach our players from the A league is how to take a dive, do we really need that?

Case in point - a new and different perspective offered and all you can do is shit on it.

shocking I know.

Go Catters

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Yeah that's right. Lucky.

Kept Geelong to their lowest score of the year. Lucky. Kept Adelaide to their lowest score of the year. Lucky. Won all three finals by very comfortable margins. Lucky. Obviously.

Richmond had all the things Geelong didn't.
Character, commitment, intensity, hunger, passion, buy in.......there was nothing 'lucky' about their Premiership.
They earnt it

Perhaps if Geelong stopped making excuses we'd be regarded a little higher than finals easybeats

 

[kickazz]

Well overall I think he improved this year. He is definitely adaptable and willing to try things

Rahilly might be a quiet achiever.
He is very thorough- eg. he has been seen doing observation of A- League teams to understand their strategies and how that might assist us, and he has good rapport with the players.

A League, eh?

So that's where our tendency to play a sling shot style game as if there is an offside rule comes from. All that fiddling around with excessive handball.

 

[Vdubs]

Well overall I think he improved this year. He is definitely adaptable and willing to try things


A League, eh?

So that's where our tendency to play a sling shot style game as if there is an offside rule comes from. All that fiddling around with excessive handball.

Just for starters.
I spoke to him about it,(1 year ago) and he said they were visiting many codes- RL, RU etc

 

[Catman]

Richmond had all the things Geelong didn't.
Character, commitment, intensity, hunger, passion, buy in.......there was nothing 'lucky' about their Premiership.
They earnt it

Can all of this be put on the coach, as many want to do?

Why was it all there against Sydney and not in the other two finals? It seems to be when we win, it's the players, when we lose, it's the coach. That is such a simplistic, narrow-minded view.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Can all of this be put on the coach, as many want to do?

Why was it all there against Sydney and not in the other two finals? It seems to be when we win, it's the players, when we lose, it's the coach. That is such a simplistic, narrow-minded view.

Nope. The players have to 'buy in' as well. They don't as a whole....

 

[Vdubs]

Yet our forward line is a complete ******* mess.. We have persisted with injury prone small forwards who can never stay on the field and substituted it with cast offs from other clubs who never end up contributing. Sorry but its been a ******* mess since 2011. Podsiadly added stability and we still had some decent forwards back then - I struggle to even name a forward other than Hawkins who has played any consistent time there. Its a shambles - no excuses.

Personnel or what?
Can't help injuries to Gregson and Cockatoo and McCarthy.
Menzel has been productive.
For such a shambles, we still get to top 4.
We can not get high draft picks, and I'm not sure who you refer to that are cast offs from other clubs that haven't worked- maybe Clark and Stanley.
Of course there are excuses.
If we had some of our 07 luck, Tigers 17 luck, ie ZERO injuries, we might be a bit more stable and potent.
In 07, we only lost Egan.
That something the Tigers had this year, and I suspect for some time into the future, is the combination and culmination of many events. But lack of injuries does help.

 

[00VicWard001]

Shhhh stop using facts...

Luke Beveridge (80%) 5 finals
Alastair Clarkson (66%) 24 finals
Don Pyke (60%) 5 finals
John Longmire (53%) 19 finals
Damien Hardwick (50%) 6 finals
Brad Scott (50%) 8 finals
Ken Hinkley (50%) 6 finals
Adam Simpson (50%) 6 finals
Ross Lyon (no, that ain't a typo) (48%) 20 finals

If you take out the 2011 season there is only ONE current coach with a worse finals record (Nathan Buckley at 25%). Include the 2011 season and only Rodney Eade, John Worsfold, and Leon Cameron come in under him.
.

Since we're taking out entire years... and relying on 'facts'...

How does Hardwick go if you take out the 2017 finals series? How did Beveridge and Brad Scott add to their percentages in 2017? How about if you take out the 2012 Finals series for Longmire? Hmm all interesting hypotheticals hey?

 

[Spazz Cat]

Personnel or what?
Can't help injuries to Gregson and Cockatoo and McCarthy.
Menzel has been productive.
For such a shambles, we still get to top 4.
We can not get high draft picks, and I'm not sure who you refer to that are cast offs from other clubs that haven't worked- maybe Clark and Stanley.
Of course there are excuses.
If we had some of our 07 luck, Tigers 17 luck, ie ZERO injuries, we might be a bit more stable and potent.
In 07, we only lost Egan.
That something the Tigers had this year, and I suspect for some time into the future, is the combination and culmination of many events. But lack of injuries does help.

Clark and Stanley were big mistakes. (Especially considering the picks and players traded) No excuses there. Our fault.
3 forwards were let go 1 year early for free.
McCarthy has never had the output to be left on the list for so long.
We've made our own luck a bit.
Cocky and Gregson. Yeah fair enough. Unfortunately injured but are good enough to be persisted with.
Also just don't seem that good at finding them. Small forwards are quite often late and rookie picks.
We could and should have got Dahlhaus, we also could have got Papley and a few others.
That said if Jones and one of Buzza or Sav Rat end up good we'll be laughing.

 

[The rabbi]

Scott could have a new assistant.

 

[Vdubs]

Scott could have a new assistant.

Brilliant pick up.

 

[The rabbi]

Just waiting for a bunch of Big Cox comments.

 

[The rabbi]

Brilliant pick up.

In the running, so nothing concrete yet.
He would have to be a ruck coach, wouldn't he?

 

[Vdubs]

Clark and Stanley were big mistakes. (Especially considering the picks and players traded) No excuses there. Our fault.
3 forwards were let go 1 year early for free.
McCarthy has never had the output to be left on the list for so long.
We've made our own luck a bit.
Cocky and Gregson. Yeah fair enough. Unfortunately injured but are good enough to be persisted with.
Also just don't seem that good at finding them. Small forwards are quite often late and rookie picks.
We could and should have got Dahlhaus, we also could have got Papley and a few others.
That said if Jones and one of Buzza or Sav Rat end up good we'll be laughing.

Parfitt will be a beauty it appears.
Agree with all of that- maybe Stanley is the exception as far as potential. He has no delivered enough, agreed. Stanley should be an exceptional player, not what he is. I could understand the reasons to get him.

 

[dazbroncos]

And from outside the Lions family tree...

Big ticks all round.

Go Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

Parfitt will be a beauty it appears.
Agree with all of that- maybe Stanley is the exception as far as potential. He has no delivered enough, agreed. Stanley should be an exceptional player, not what he is. I could understand the reasons to get him.

Yeah you're right. On paper Stanley seems awesome. Had potential

 

[goyoucatters]

The really cool aspect of this thread in the light of Saturday is that there is now only one coach in football who is anything more than a complete shambles.

The way the Tiges took our boys, Team AFL and the Craas to the cleaners in the last month (with a game-plan that seemed pretty much as unsophisticated and simple as you could ever imagine at AFL level) was nothing short of remarkable.

So we're left at least with the comfort that every other club in the comp also has a totally clueless coach. Including the man who coached this year's minor premiers.

Scott is no genius. And, despite the caricatures that are continually constructed here by the ABS crew, there's actually very few posters who would ever suggest that he is a step ahead of every other coach going around.

And, despite their incredible success at the pointy end this season, I don't think you would find that many Richmond fans who think Dimma is untouchable as a coaching deity either. And, if they did say that now, I'd be very interested to hear what they were saying about him only twelve months ago.

What happened on Saturday (and throughout this finals series) was a combination of myriad factors that all had a significant influence on the final destination of this year's flag.

Did Pyke get out-coached on Saturday? Yes, indeed. Was that the sole factor in his team's miserable capitulation? Definitely not. Was it even the most significant factor in their dirty day? That's actually questionable for mine.

In the end, the inane nature of what goes on in this thread is summarised by the fact that, up until one month ago, nobody in the history of VFL/AFL had ever coached more games without winning a final than D. Hardwick. He was statistically 'the biggest loser' of all time in terms of getting his team to a place where they could compete in a GF. I don't think any coach in modern football (apart from Bucks, perhaps) has been more blessed to keep their job than he was at the end of '16.

So, just four weeks after finally winning his first final ever, he can now be hailed as the messiah who has driven this group to ultimate glory. When you consider the yawning chasm between what he was formerly infamous for and how he will now be remembered at Tigerland, you learn everything you need to know about the multiplicity of factors contributing to one team's success or failure.

And the only reasonable conclusion to reach is that Dimma didn't become a coaching superstar overnight. He undoubtedly has improved his craft along the way. But the mix of assistants, the maturing of the playing group, the off-field stability, the continuity of player availability and the finals draw have all played major roles as well.

Scott has limitations, no doubt. And, based on this year's finals series, he has plenty of mates in that regard, given how easily the other supposed contenders also got towelled up by the rampaging Tiges.

I would suggest both of the other teams they torched in the last month were humiliated in much the same way that our boys were.

Just as well those clubs have coaches with some idea, then. So that we all really know who to blame for those sobering losses.

Seems that only at Geelong do we see the coach as almost entirely responsible for each loss. Still, at least that's countered by seeing him as almost entirely unimportant in the victories as well.

After all, one of the greatest strengths of this thread has always been its unerring commitment to 'balance'.

 

[Cataholic]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/10/03/geelongs-thelma-louise-list-management-strategy/

Note the author.......

 

[Mad_Hatter]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/10/03/geelongs-thelma-louise-list-management-strategy/

Note the author.......

What an imbecile.

 

[Cataholic]

What an imbecile.

I looked twice because the message seemed very familiar.......