Bluemour Discussion Thread VIII

[BlueJet]

I think that. But you disagree. I will refrain from attacking your football knowledge. Murphy is highly skilled but pulls out of contests. I don’t want SPS around that sort of stuff. Plain fact- we have played better without him on the ground this year. Arguably (my argument) it will be better for our team going forward if we part ways. And play the ball not the man. I know something about football. I have played under, with and against our current senior coach.

SPS has his own intensity issues as it is but Murph has put his body on the line more than anyone not named Judd or Cripps across the last decade so if we're giving guys a clip for avoiding contact there are plenty of others more deserving.
Secondly is it really plain fact that we're better with him out? It's debatable given some of our worst efforts have come after he's sustained injuries (Nth & Melb games)

 

[sosos]

I think that. But you disagree. I will refrain from attacking your football knowledge. Murphy is highly skilled but pulls out of contests. I don’t want SPS around that sort of stuff. Plain fact- we have played better without him on the ground this year. Arguably (my argument) it will be better for our team going forward if we part ways. And play the ball not the man. I know something about football. I have played under, with and against our current senior coach.

Ex North Hobart boy?

 

[RudyBlue]

Yeah but....

He don’t take a backward step, that’s been established since game one.

Couldn’t name one of our boys that has done that.

You heard of Patrick Cripps?

 

[StandByyourMan]

SPS has his own intensity issues as it is but Murph has put his body on the line more than anyone not named Judd or Cripps across the last decade so if we're giving guys a clip for avoiding contact there are plenty of others more deserving.
Secondly is it really plain fact that we're better with him out? It's debatable given some of our worst efforts have come after he's sustained injuries (Nth & Melb games)

SPS, precisely why I don’t want him learning from Murphy. Hang on. I’m being to harsh on Murphy here. It started as a proposal for discussion not a hard and fast opinion of mine personally. I do think there is an argument for us to part ways though, and I haven’t enjoyed seeing Murphy hearing footsteps. I love Murphy though. Carry on.

 

[__Bobcat__]

SPS has his own intensity issues as it is but Murph has put his body on the line more than anyone not named Judd or Cripps across the last decade so if we're giving guys a clip for avoiding contact there are plenty of others more deserving.
Secondly is it really plain fact that we're better with him out? It's debatable given some of our worst efforts have come after he's sustained injuries (Nth & Melb games)

A captain has to lead on field in every aspect of the game.
He cannot chose when to or nor too, put his body on the line.
he can't berate players for not having a dip, when he, dosent have a dip, himself..[/QUOTE]

 

[Coops93]

Brodie, and Scrimshaw

Do not want.

Must be a similar deal with the Giants where we get some crap in order for them to give us the good.

 

[StandByyourMan]

A captain has to lead on field in every aspect of the game.
He cannot chose when to or nor too, put his body on the line.
he can't berate players for not having a dip, when he, dosent have a dip, himself..

[/QUOTE]
This is the issue. Exacerbated when in rebuild. Maybe relinquish captaincy will help, but need more grit and shit in leaders

 

[CFC_#17]

'The AGE' says Wines preference is Demons.

It would be stupid of Melbourne to target Wines with Jones, Viney and Oliver.

 

[Lace_Out]

You heard of Patrick Cripps?

Pretty sure he doesn't know what a backward step is, Joel Selwood can vouch for it. Still cleaning his shorts after making the mistake of looking in Cripps general direction.

 

[Metalcrusher]

It would be stupid of Melbourne to target Wines with Jones, Viney and Oliver.

and petrecca

 

[StandByyourMan]

Pretty sure he doesn't know what a backward step is, Joel Selwood can vouch for it. Still cleaning his shorts after making the mistake of looking in Cripps general direction.View attachment 508231

Can’t spell backward step

 

[Iamcarlton]

Not that i disagree, but i understand where Malifice is coming from.

We seem to be extremely supportive of our young KPF, yet harsh on the likes of Weitering, Plowman and show no faith in our young midfielders.

Just get the best talent through the door at this stage, no matter what position they play

That opinion is not great list management imo .
Tell me besides an injury riddled Kennedy who have we got that we can safely say will cover for Cripps atleast adequately if he's on the bench or or even out injured ? .
Malifice keeps banging on about getting another tall forward whilst fully in the know that those tall forwards we have do not get anywhere near the inside 50's and quality of entries of the better sides . Not to mention they are just starting their careers .
Its complete naivety to think we at our stage are going to have a 50+ goal a season tall forward . And that would include if we had Tom Lynch on the list now .
If Wines somehow chose us then we already have another tall forward on our list ready to be utilised and he gets the long overdue assistance he nees in CRIPPS ...

 

[CJMB]

Yep - FT professional footballer in AFL system for a couple of years possessing all the physical attributes required to be a good forward - height/leap/run and kick - and lacking a bit between the ears. begs a question doesn' t it regarding Carlton's ability to develop players into specific roles and delivering on basic KPI's...

In Rugby - you have elite young kids barely out of teenage years making National team and playing against the best in the world in equally if not more demanding roles - in AFL you have the old BS - takes time to develop talls- meanwhile Fogarty is tearing it up for Adelaide as if he was a developed player.

maybe avoiding kids who are just bigger than other school kids as their #1 attribute and competitive advantage is a good plan.

I'd argue rugby is more extreme in terms of the big kids developing. Sometimes backs can get into it pretty quick but it's a pretty rare occurrence that forwards are playing Super Rugby in the first couple of years. There's a few exceptions like David Pocock but normally it takes several years for the big guys to develop.

Taniela Tupou arrived at the Reds out of school at 130kg (ballpark of where you want a tighthead prop to be) and it took him a couple of years playing club & NRC before he was ready for Super Rugby. Same goes for Jordan Uelese, arrived at the Rebels clocking in at 189cm & 120kg, on the larger size for a hooker, but it wasn't until last year where he really was ready to start getting games. They were both big, developed guys at 18 but still needed time.

It's fairly common to see guys take until they're 22-24 before they're ready and all of a sudden they burst on to the scene: Wallabies captain Adam Coleman was about 24 when he actually started getting games, 2 of the current Wallaby squad hookers Folau Fainga'a and Brandon Paenga-Amosa are about 23 and only started playing Super Rugby this year, Anaru Rangi at the Rebels was maybe 27 when he first got his break.

Contrast that to how it felt like an eternity until we finally got to see Harry. When it comes to development and how quickly we can see the younger guys get on the park we actually have it pretty good in footy.

 

[Arr0w]

That opinion is not great list management imo .
Tell me besides an injury riddled Kennedy who have we got that we can safely say will cover for Cripps atleast adequately if he's on the bench or or even out injured ? .
Malifice keeps banging on about getting another tall forward whilst fully in the know that those tall forwards we have do not get anywhere near the inside 50's and quality of entries of the better sides . Not to mention they are just starting their careers .
Its complete naivety to think we at our stage are going to have a 50+ goal a season tall forward . And that would include if we had Tom Lynch on the list now .
If Wines somehow chose us then we already have another tall forward on our list ready to be utilised and he gets the long overdue assistance he nees in CRIPPS ...

Think you are missing a few points that have I made in the past.

I am not advocating, that we select talls or midfielders with early picks. For where our list is at, I have never deviated from the belief of taking best available in the draft, especially with early picks, no matter the type of player, then trade/FA for needs.

People salivate at the prospect, the likes of a Wines, yet the success of our list medium to long term will be continually adding talented kids and developing them accordingly.

 

[Gethelred]

A captain has to lead on field in every aspect of the game.
He cannot chose when to or nor too, put his body on the line.
he can't berate players for not having a dip, when he, dosent have a dip, himself..

Footage, please.

Yep. We're doing this again. You're making an assertion, for something that is not beyond doubt. Prove it. Find me some proof that Murphy doesn't have a dip, or put his body on the line, when you've got significant evidence to the contrary resulting in some pretty ugly injuries to him as a consequence.

 

[Arr0w]

My friend runs a business which networks with the GFC and has the players regularly attend his seminars. Was chatting with him this morning and he doesn't think Geelong will be able to keep Guthrie.

He knows im a Carlton supporter and believes Carlton will be his club of choice if the contract isn't reworked.

I think the Cats won't let him go but it was nice to hear. Thought i would share

#Bluemour

Would be a very good pick up

 

[Iamcarlton]

Think you are missing a few points that have I made in the past.

I am not advocating, that we select talls or midfielders with early picks. For where our list is at, I have never deviated from the belief of taking best available in the draft, especially with early picks, no matter the type of player, then trade/FA for needs.

People salivate at the prospect, the likes of a Wines, yet the success of our list medium to long term will be continually adding talented kids and developing them accordingly.

Think youve been pretty bullish on Lukosius but yes think weve had this conversation in the past imo we need to be very specific re our selections in the draft and trade .
As i certainly wouldnt be banking on Free agency doing squat for us in the next couple of years . Thats fools gold in our situation . We have been specific to date with our rebuild by building the spine first of which i feel we went overboard with the amount of talls weve recruited .
We now need to be specific in finishing off our list .
I see not just midfield being an area we need to improve but the general run in the side and on the list .
Including another small defender medium and small forward all with pace as we have a lot of slowish players on our list .
I certainly dont see recruiting 2 talls in our first 4 picks if Ben Sos does indeed get selected as good for what we need .
Id be trading pick 1 if we finish last anyway but trading it most likely wont happen .

 

[Foucault1989]

Think you are missing a few points that have I made in the past.

I am not advocating, that we select talls or midfielders with early picks. For where our list is at, I have never deviated from the belief of taking best available in the draft, especially with early picks, no matter the type of player, then trade/FA for needs.

People salivate at the prospect, the likes of a Wines, yet the success of our list medium to long term will be continually adding talented kids and developing them accordingly.

Wines is still pretty young and has a long future ahead of him. If someone in that 24-28 age bracket is available and they are high quality like wines or gaff that should take priority

 

[Blue__Balls]

Think you are missing a few points that have I made in the past.

I am not advocating, that we select talls or midfielders with early picks. For where our list is at, I have never deviated from the belief of taking best available in the draft, especially with early picks, no matter the type of player, then trade/FA for needs.

People salivate at the prospect, the likes of a Wines, yet the success of our list medium to long term will be continually adding talented kids and developing them accordingly.

Do you see a fundamental issue with trading for Wines and then taking best available with the picks we have left?

Hypothetical -

Carlton get Wines, Pick 11, 2019 Pick 10
Port Adelaide get Pick 1, 2019 Pick 6

Points alone it values Wines at pick 4, but the reality is it probably values him a bit higher based on the unique prospect of a generational key forward from SA going to an SA club. We'd hope to slingshot up the ladder a bit more and close the gap between the 2019 picks.

We still take the best available at Pick 11, whether that's a key tall like Max King (maybe sliding due to injury?), a mid/fwd like Rozee or Taylor, or a runner like Hill.


A scenario like that doesn't reduce the number of players we cycle, in fact it allows us to cut the list by one more. It does however, sacrifice draft position in a strong draft to bring in a known quantity who fills a need.

On a strategic level, where does a scenario like that sit with you? Assume, for the sake of the argument, that Gaff doesn't want to join us as well, so he's not a viable alternative.

 

[Benaly28]

Extrapolating, Gaff was a Melbourne supporter and has been weighing up options, with the advertised info
that success is an integral part of his decision.

The recent "change of heart" (indecision) from Wines may be the result of an offer from a club firmly in a
"window" after being politely declined by the Free Agent.

Melbourne has a wealth of inside types, but perhaps looking at a succession plan for Jones.

Viney and Oliver are insides too.

 

[AlecDuncan]

SPS has his own intensity issues as it is but Murph has put his body on the line more than anyone not named Judd or Cripps across the last decade so if we're giving guys a clip for avoiding contact there are plenty of others more deserving.
Secondly is it really plain fact that we're better with him out? It's debatable given some of our worst efforts have come after he's sustained injuries (Nth & Melb games)

Jesus. In Murph's very first game he stood in the hole knowing he'd get smashed and took it. Then goaled. He ain't soft.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Use free agency, and blackmail via the PSD to get mature players. Pick 1 is too valuable to trade. If it was pick 8 we were talking about, I might think differently.

 

[passmark]

Watched the old Aussie rules state of origin games last night. I was surprised how often players took the opportunity to be a sniper and how often they pulled out when vulnerable.

A couple of marking contests in particular.

 

[katmanblue]

Yes, you'd spot on. We forced him into a role he's unsuited for due to necessity. One of the worst smashing he received was by a mature age Lions player in his fist year Smurf has always been courageous, very talented footballer and great servant of the CFC.

Yeah i remember Johno Brown standing over him and giving him one when he was lyingon the ground just over the boundry line up in Qld.

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[katmanblue]

Here here! And as such doesnt deserve all this BS about him leaving and how hard he tackles etc etc

Yeah. Critecise his hot potato or hospital handballs, but not his courage.

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