List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 1

[CursingFijian]

Agree to disagree.

IMO unless forward zones come in Paddy has reached his ceiling, which is about as high as the front door step. Bruce, Battle, Marshall amd Membrey offer heaps more going forward.

Trading Paddy would be like the Hawks trading Roughead. The thing we are all forgetting is that Paddy will get a lot quicker and fitter with two more pre-seasons. He just needs to be played consistently. We hardly notice the logistics around his diabetic condition any more and you can see his confidence in contests growing from week to week. Definitely a keeper.

 

[Joffaboy]

If we want to get more picks we need to trade for players with some worth.

Second rounder for Dunstan, we grab it and run.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ceanag]

I'ts already old news buddy ....

 

[gringo2011]

Do you remember though that McEvoy was also not a very good tap ruckman? He was good around the ground and a very good intercept mark back in the hole, but I think his legend has grown due to him being in a premiership team.

When he left I remember the media making a whole hoo ha about the fact that we were trading away our future captain, not so much that he was a fantastic ruckman.

He was definitely an average ruckman when we lost him but was very good at drifting across half back cleaning up lose ball like Carlisle does now. He's elite now, we just traded him before he hit his peak. Good plan until we spent high picks on two rucks that ended up worse than the one we had turned out to be. I think it was Dunstan and Savage then we swapped 24 and 50 something for the Acres pick. The hawks picked up Hartung and Sicily in that draft. If we had that 24 we might have ended up taking Merrett from the Sandy Dragons instead of Acres or Dunny. Who nows. If we'd kept Big Ben taken Sicily and Merrett we might have been a completely different side. No Longer might have meant we got Grundy instead at the draft. Don't do sliding doors to yourself...it will make you cry.

 

[Sadsainter]

Trading Paddy would be like the Hawks trading Roughead. The thing we are all forgetting is that Paddy will get a lot quicker and fitter with two more pre-seasons. He needs to be able to play consistently. And we hardly notice his diabetic condition any more and you can see his confidence growing from week to week. Definitely a keeper.

He is getting better

 

[gringo2011]

I've been dumbfounded by some of his lack of effort end of last year and all this year. I'm hoping I'm wrong and it's due to all his hard work off screen leaving him too stuffed to compete.

They sit on him now they know we have two mids instead of one. He can't find space so we drop him back to play off a back flank where he doesn't get any real movement which he was using to find space last year. He needs more like him not to be traded. You lose Ross then get Steven sat on even more. It's just so insane that anyone would consider trading any of a better players. We literally haven't drafted a single top 100 player since him and we are now considering it to be a good idea to trade him because why?

I'm not a smart man but that doesn't seem like good logic.

 

[gringo2011]

IF we have a ruck locked in, what odds we jettison both Billy and Hickey?

If we sell off our rucks and get Witts I'm going to have my head explode trying not to be negative on here. I'm pretty sure trade period is starting to look as promising as our AFL season.

 

[mightymalaka]

They sit on him now they know we have two mids instead of one. He can't find space so we drop him back to play off a back flank where he doesn't get any real movement which he was using to find space last year. He needs more like him not to be traded. You lose Ross then get Steven sat on even more. It's just so insane that anyone would consider trading any of a better players. We literally haven't drafted a single top 100 player since him and we are now considering it to be a good idea to trade him because why?

I'm not a smart man but that doesn't seem like good logic.

Your absolutely right....

 

[gringo2011]

It was the right call at the time. Whether we drafted the right player is debatable.

I think it's turned out that teams that bottom out rebuild nearly always take much longer to jump back up that teams that do a remodel. Geelong, Sydney, Hawks, Adelaide etc all did on the fly rebuilds. Melbourne, St Kilda, Brisbane and Carlton ground up and still haven't reclaimed the mountain. Even Richmond hovered just outside finals for a decade. The Hawks and Saints both did well when priority picks, Free Agency and expansion teams weren't an issue.

Pelican sounded good but in reality he was a disaster financially and for actually building a winning list. Mc Evoy in hindsight was a bad move because we ended up having to pay up for 2 established rucks that weren't as good and for all of our good trading we have one elite player turned into 4 players who aren't regular best 22 in a lot of peoples eyes after 5 years. Sounds like the two rucks we did get might both be on the way back out as well.

 

[VDS66]

If we sell off our rucks and get Witts I'm going to have my head explode trying not to be negative on here. I'm pretty sure trade period is starting to look as promising as our AFL season.

They are both average so it depends what we get for them.

Might be Lobb and not Witts

 

[Diehard Saint]

He was definitely an average ruckman when we lost him but was very good at drifting across half back cleaning up lose ball like Carlisle does now. He's elite now, we just traded him before he hit his peak. Good plan until we spent high picks on two rucks that ended up worse than the one we had turned out to be. I think it was Dunstan and Savage then we swapped 24 and 50 something for the Acres pick. The hawks picked up Hartung and Sicily in that draft. If we had that 24 we might have ended up taking Merrett from the Sandy Dragons instead of Acres or Dunny. Who nows. If we'd kept Big Ben taken Sicily and Merrett we might have been a completely different side. No Longer might have meant we got Grundy instead at the draft. Don't do sliding doors to yourself...it will make you cry.

I’m not one for looking backward much, doesn’t help and makes depressing reflection. What’s done is done.
Just saying that in trading out Big Boy it was hardly like we were losing a Grundy or NicNat.

 

[gringo2011]

Trading Paddy would be like the Hawks trading Roughead. The thing we are all forgetting is that Paddy will get a lot quicker and fitter with two more pre-seasons. He needs to be able to play consistently. And we hardly notice his diabetic condition any more and you can see his confidence growing from week to week. Definitely a keeper.

I'm not his biggest fan but we have to persist with him until we see what he can do. We are kind of stuck in no mans land though because we can't really play Bruce and him unless one plays back but if you trade either you could be sorry. We might just have to keep our powder dry for another year. If we take our top 5 pick to the draft, pick up Sloane type FA and perhaps try to trade a Goddard or Hickey/ Longer type and a pick to trade into the draft a bit lower down it might be enough for this year. We went very hard last year and we need to stop living off future picks at some point.

 

[mightymalaka]

They are both average so it depends what we get for them.

Might be Lobb and not Witts

Would that be that much better?
Can't see us trading both of them btw.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m not one for looking backward much, doesn’t help and makes depressing reflection. What’s done is done.
Just saying that in trading out Big Boy it was hardly like we were losing a Grundy or NicNat.

Not to try to depress you but Mc Evoy is rated higher than Gawn in AFL ratings. Mc Evoy is rated the 15th best player in the AFL by their system. Grundy is rated higher still.

 

[gringo2011]

Would that be that much better?
Can't see us trading both of them btw.

Nooooo, I don't want Aussierulesrules to hate me but I'm seconds off bashing my own face down on the table repeatedly.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Not to try to depress you but Mc Evoy is rated higher than Gawn in AFL ratings. Mc Evoy is rated the 15th best player in the AFL by their system. Grundy is rated higher still.

You didn’t try very hard... but no matter, I’ll try not to lose any sleep over it

 

[mightymalaka]

Nooooo, I don't want Aussierulesrules to hate me but I'm seconds off bashing my own face down on the table repeatedly.

Don't do it Gringo!

It's overrated. I tried it once and it did Not make me feel better.

It hurts..

 

[gringo2011]

Don't do it Gringo!

It's overrated. I tried it once and it did Not make me feel better.

It hurts..

I find removing my frontal lobe through alcohol is quite similar and less painful also.

 

[BrutThough]

Not to try to depress you but Mc Evoy is rated higher than Gawn in AFL ratings. Mc Evoy is rated the 15th best player in the AFL by their system. Grundy is rated higher still.

for your own sanity, you need to stop looking at and referring to those AFL player ratings. They are a load of crap and have no actual logic behind how they work. Despite what the AFL think, they are completely irrelevant and a terrible way of rating players.

 

[mightymalaka]

I find removing my frontal lobe through alcohol is quite similar and less painful also.

Indeed.

My frontal lobe was traded out a long time ago, and replaced with more ASS!

Which is why i talk so much shit.

ok i'm terribly sorry all,i'll just let myself out quietly....

 

[gringo2011]

for your own sanity, you need to stop looking at and referring to those AFL player ratings. They are a load of crap and have no actual logic behind how they work. Despite what the AFL think, they are completely irrelevant and a terrible way of rating players.

I'm not taking it seriously they are a pretty rough guide and overrate hit outs, tackles and contested possessions but so do most stat compilations. It's still a guide to who's getting more touches. Mc Evoy is still very good around the ground and a good mark so has better stats than some other rucks that are more dominant in hit outs. He's still better than either of ours. In hindsight it was a bad move but so were a million moves by other teams. The Hawks let Josh Kennedy go for not much for example.

 

[Moral Decay]

Dunstan.
23yo. Yet to peak.
Maybe not a superstar but will play out 200+ games.
Would get a game in most sides.

We are lacking experienced mids.
Reality is he is our 3rd/4th best mid right now.
(That tells you about the state of our midfield)

To let him go for a draft pick would be detrimental to our side.
(If it's a teen pick AND our midfield is addressed via free agency... Then I'm listening.)

Going by the GCS game where Dunstan ( 15 touches @ 66.7%) sat out a fair chunk of the last quarter, Clark (17 @ 82.4%) and Steele (21 @ 71.4%) on the ground in the guts in the last with Armitage (25 touches @ 64%), Ross (33 @ 72.7), Steven (28 @67.9%), Billings (27 @ 67.7%) and Sinclair (25 @ 60%)

Reality is he is our 8th best mid right now.

Even if we go off his full season and you are right he is about line ball with Steele at 3 or 4 it's in the worst midfield in the competition, when the game was being won in the last quarter against GCS, he was behind Clarke and Steele in the eyes of the coach. He may be limited by his shoulders but if he is fit he is sliding down the list.

 

[Mikka84]

Trading Paddy would be like the Hawks trading Roughead. The thing we are all forgetting is that Paddy will get a lot quicker and fitter with two more pre-seasons. He just needs to be played consistently. We hardly notice the logistics around his diabetic condition any more and you can see his confidence in contests growing from week to week. Definitely a keeper.

We all differ in opinions, that’s what makes us human ( or Saints fans ).

Paddy isn’t getting any quicker. Fitter, probably.

My honest opinion is he won’t won’t be on an afl list in 3-4 years time.

But no point squabbling about it - he’s not going anywhere. We won’t get anything better than a 3rd round pick for him and we wouldn’t accept that.

Without being harsh to him - I’d love to see him rested late year so we can look at Membrey, Battle & Bruce forward set up. Gut tells me this is out best set up.

 

[Joffaboy]

We all differ in opinions, that’s what makes us human ( or Saints fans ).

Paddy isn’t getting any quicker. Fitter, probably.

My honest opinion is he won’t won’t be on an afl list in 3-4 years time.

But no point squabbling about it - he’s not going anywhere. We won’t get anything better than a 3rd round pick for him and we wouldn’t accept that.

Without being harsh to him - I’d love to see him rested late year so we can look at Membrey, Battle & Bruce forward set up. Gut tells me this is out best set up.

3rd round pick.

Unmitigated rubbish.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[WhiskySaint]

We all differ in opinions, that’s what makes us human ( or Saints fans ).

Paddy isn’t getting any quicker. Fitter, probably.

My honest opinion is he won’t won’t be on an afl list in 3-4 years time.

But no point squabbling about it - he’s not going anywhere. We won’t get anything better than a 3rd round pick for him and we wouldn’t accept that.

Without being harsh to him - I’d love to see him rested late year so we can look at Membrey, Battle & Bruce forward set up. Gut tells me this is out best set up.

Without wanting to open the can of worms.... why wouldn’t Paddy get fitter? I recon the bigger you are the more match fitness is required and Paddy haven’t strung two seasons together yet. I’m 100% confident that a fit Paddy gets a lot fitter then he currently is.