Bluemour Discussion Thread VIII

[HarryFlashman]

There's certainly two distinct camps on this one.

IMO, a lot of us are getting bogged down in the theory of list management, which is different from LM in practice. There are many benefits to getting Shiel and these could really get this build rolling.

We can say that it's too early for big fish and that we'll pick them up when we're ready, but there's no guarantees out there. Just ask St Kilda or North Melbourne what accumulating cap space gets you.

On the assumption (not saying this is true) Shiel has told his manager 'get me back to Carlton', I think you're playing a dangerous game if you tell him to wait a year.

Nah, i reckon Stamos just has NFI & doesnt get it

Its pretty obvious that we will get Sheil for free next year so why waste any sort of pick. Good players come to clubs free these days.

Pick 1 guarantees the next "superstar/best player ever" so theirs no point trading it for 2 good picks in what is supposed to be a "super draft".

Lets look at this for a sec- whats better? 1 pick or 2 picks in a supposedly awesome draft? what about 1 pick and a ready made, all Australian gun mid ?

Lets all so ignore the fact that the club has said we need to fill the 25ish age bracket- thats not a BF opinion- thats the club!

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'd still offer our first round pick for next year. I just don't want to remove ourselves from the pointy end of the draft this year.

Haven't you heard? Next year's draft is an uber-draft (next level up from a super-draft)! There's a kid that's basically two Chris Judds strapped together, another that is halfway between Pendlebury and Neville Jetta, not to mention that bloke that has such amazing leadership qualities, draft watchers reckon he'll be signed as a captain coach to whichever club drafts him.

Hold all the future picks!!!​

 

[cookie monster]

Gee just imagine if we could add Shiel with our 2019 first, and Luko/Walsh with our 2018 first

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

Hello
Hello?
Hi, it's Dylan
Piss off, no you're not
I am
Leave me alone you're not real
I am
What do you want?
Carlton
What?
What?
What do you want I asked
Carlton

Oh FFS

 

[bmaurizio]

I'd still offer our first round pick for next year. I just don't want to remove ourselves from the pointy end of the draft this year.

Absolutely agree, no way should we trade away ouour pick 1 or 2 in this year's draft.
2019 draft is strong too at least top 10 will be, should be ample to pay for an AA midfielder.

 

[bmaurizio]

Gee just imagine if we could add Shiel with our 2019 first, and Luko/Walsh with our 2018 first

Exactly right that would be the plan Sheil/ Lukosius would be the dream. Another quality midfielder would be good too.

 

[Mr_Plow]

There's certainly two distinct camps on this one.

IMO, a lot of us are getting bogged down in the theory of list management, which is different from LM in practice. There are many benefits to getting Shiel and these could really get this build rolling.

We can say that it's too early for big fish and that we'll pick them up when we're ready, but there's no guarantees out there. Just ask St Kilda or North Melbourne what accumulating cap space gets you.

On the assumption (not saying this is true) Shiel has told his manager 'get me back to Carlton', I think you're playing a dangerous game if you tell him to wait a year.

My nomination for poster of the year.

Has emerged to elite status.

 

[HBF]

2019 1st and one of our 2018 2nds for a top 10 pick and change could be on the cards.

Thats certainly a possibility.
SOS is usually pretty good at exchanging picks.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

**** Adelaide … we need to leverage them at every opportunity should the opportunity present itself.

Great use of the word leverage. This year's 'campaigner'.
FWIW I'd like to leverage the next spam telemarketer that promises to improve my tax position...

 

[gbatman]

Gee just imagine if we could add Shiel with our 2019 first, and Luko/Walsh with our 2018 first

I'd prefer us to try and turn our 2019 first into a decent first rounder in 2018, use our first this year for a star or two stars and take Shiel for nothing at the end of 2019. Do think that a pick this season is worth a lot more to us than a pick next season.

A hell of a lot of impatience here. Impatience sees another Judd scenario where we rise too early, play finals briefly and drop back down the bottom again. Patience sees sustained and ultimate success.

 

[cookie monster]

I'd prefer us to try and turn our 2019 first into a decent first rounder in 2018, use our first this year for a star or two stars and take Shiel for nothing at the end of 2019. Do think that a pick this season is worth a lot more to us than a pick next season.

A hell of a lot of impatience here. Impatience sees another Judd scenario where we rise too early, play finals briefly and drop back down the bottom again. Patience sees sustained and ultimate success.

That's complete hogwash.

We've gone to three successive drafts, and turned over a lot of personnel. Now we have a dearth of 25-28yo talent on our list, and we are seeking to repair that issue.

This is not a Judd-messiah type situation, this is just good list management

 

[Bluey24]

Clearly, you get it.

Carlton have been after Shiel for some time now and for him to say that he's now ready and for us to reply with a; "Put the brakes on Dylan. It serves us better to get you next year", may understandably not go down too well.

If Dylan wants to come to us and if it's now, it has to be now. If he's cool hanging around GWS another year, then that's cool too.

Well said

 

[bluemahogany]

I'd prefer us to try and turn our 2019 first into a decent first rounder in 2018, use our first this year for a star or two stars and take Shiel for nothing at the end of 2019. Do think that a pick this season is worth a lot more to us than a pick next season.

A hell of a lot of impatience here. Impatience sees another Judd scenario where we rise too early, play finals briefly and drop back down the bottom again. Patience sees sustained and ultimate success.

Except our drafting post Judd was the worst in AFL history, that's what stuffed us up, I have faith that wont happen again.

 

[Gambelic]

The potential benefit in trading for Sheil this year is that moving forward it could potentially save us $1-2 million over the next 5 years. By taking him now, assuming he's on $800k a year (and willing to sign a 5 year contract with us on similar coin) and GWS do find some cap space, we might have to offer $1-1.2m to be high enough for GWS not to match.

This would be a big help moving forward to have that extra cap space when some of our other players are looking for bigger contracts.

 

[Captain Cripps]

Wasn’t there some word back a while that blues bought this software that information was entered and it shows when to draft delist etc?

 

[thylacine60]

yep - it's called the BigFooty app.....

 

[chunkylover53]

Pretty sure we had a handshake deal with Tom Boyd to come after his first contract, meaning one more year at GWS. Before WB swooped in aggressively and got him back to VIC that year. Although hes been average he was a huge contribution to their flag.

Would rather not have something like that happen again.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Clearly, you get it.

Carlton have been after Shiel for some time now and for him to say that he's now ready and for us to reply with a; "Put the brakes on Dylan. It serves us better to get you next year", may understandably not go down too well.

If Dylan wants to come to us and if it's now, it has to be now. If he's cool hanging around GWS another year, then that's cool too.

I agree 100%.
If Shiel wants to go to Melbourne now, we simply have to make a move. Personally, I feel it would be better for both Dylan and the blues to wait a year. But if he wants a move then we need to go hard.

One thing to keep in mind next year is that Kelly may leave to North as well and I think Coniglio is a fa. There is a good possibility they can match our offer next year anyway and force a trade.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Jordan De Goey reportedly about to re-sign with Collingwood.

If you want to re-sign one of your players tell them North Melbourne is chasing them.

Someone start a rumour that north is chasing Cripps, we will sign the legend up for life.

 

[therubbernub]

Wasn’t there some word back a while that blues bought this software that information was entered and it shows when to draft delist etc?

IOS or android?

 

[Gethelred]

Except our drafting post Judd was the worst in AFL history, that's what stuffed us up, I have faith that wont happen again.

I don't like that word.

I have confidence that it won't happen again; we've certainly gone out and done a revamp of the recruiting, done due diligence on the constituent parts. We've hired some highly credentialed assistants, both in recruiting and coaching, and from the sounds of McKay leaving our continuing review into the football department is ongoing; all of this speaks well for our prospects and for our current systems being better than they were.

However.

On this board, I see 'believe' and 'faith' a lot, when it comes to the coaches and the recruiting. It sticks out, because belief is completely uncritical. This is another manifestation of our Messiah complex, but we have transferred it from players - or have we, given our glorification of Cripps and Docherty? - to the key figures involved here, Bolton and SOS.

I support what they're doing, and I have confidence that their decisions, at least as far as I can follow their reasoning on the scant evidence we all have as outsiders, are to the benefit of the club. But faith? No ****ing way. It'll blind you should things begin to turn.

 

[gbatman]

That's complete hogwash.

We've gone to three successive drafts, and turned over a lot of personnel. Now we have a dearth of 25-28yo talent on our list, and we are seeking to repair that issue.

This is not a Judd-messiah type situation, this is just good list management

Do we need it though? Do we need to be a little better 2019 to win premierships? We need our guns to win the flag from 2021 onwards.

I think we will be competitive in 2019 and for me that's enough.

As long as we have the player we need when it's our time to go for the flag then that's all we need.


We throw a pick at Shiel then we arrive at the station with missing cargo. That's not good management, that's a club folding to fan pressure, we gain very little by having him for next season.

You're suggesting we throw a massively valuable draft pick to have a pretty good player for one year and not a year where we are a premiership threat. It is impatience and a messiah complex. If we aren't going to be playing for the flag next year then why would we throw a really good draft pick at a player we can get for no picks right when we need him, when the timing is perfect in 2020.

We need more than Shiel. The reality is that we need about 6 really good players by 2020/2021 and using top draft picks when you don't have to is detrimental to achieving this. We built half a team around the 2010 period and that worked out poorly, we still have building to do. If those 6 players are top level player then we probably win premierships but if they are average then history will repeat itself and it will be another short and uneventful rise.

This draft is important to us because it's probably the last draft before the young players start getting a bit too young to impact in this period, the young players we draft in this draft will just be old enough to impact when we are a premiership chance. After this draft we can look at trading top picks for good players in their mid careers. This is still an important draft.

Champion players don't win flags. Champion teams full of champion players do. Numbers are what we need, not individuals and not before we need them.

I don't care when we get em as long as we have them by the time we are ready and we build a really good, deep best 22 and list. At this stage this list is not ready for us to stop building and start throwing draft top picks at players, we are not in a hurry, we have a little time yet, we need to make sure we get all the gun players we get because the 2019 season will mean stuff all when we win the 2022 premiership. What will mean a lot is who we have running out in that season and that is dictated by the choices we make now.

 

[Unknown Origin]

i'd happily give pick 1 for kelly and forget shiel.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

yep - it's called the BigFooty app.....

We are just algorithms. Blue pill thanks.

 

[Captain Cripps]

IOS or android?

?
Not sure