Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[Gethelred]

is it possible I'm over lukosade already?

#newwhippingboyintown

 

[Metalcrusher]

So how much money do we actually have available to lure mature age recruits?

Would we be able to try to get Tom Lynch as a FA.

Landing a ready made star forward might allow us to trade McKay as part of the Sheil deal, and allow us to keep our first pick.

Adding lynch, Sheil, Lukosius/Walsh... plus one or two role playing mids, we could see some rapid, rapid rise up the ladder.

Yeah nah don't think that bit is part of SOS/Bolts plans.

 

[Metalcrusher]

#newwhippingboyintown

50 Shades of Thy!

 

[Metalcrusher]

Look.

I don't want to be that guy.

But tall utility whose best attribute is upfield work and field kicking.

Not a standout mark or very physical.

I remember a no.1 like that. Jack Watts

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

…….. Bookmark it B&S if nothing else you made a call be interesting to see how the young lanky once in 10 billion generation player turns out ...

 

[cfc4life]

Finishing last next year barring another horrendous injury list would be a catastrophic result for the club. The green shoots would have wilted under the pressure. Look what happened to the Dees for nearly ten years.

 

[Nori]

I can see the pros for Carlton moving on Shiel this year

• Cheaper than if he was taken as a FA
• 12 months of hopefully improved performances by the club in 2019
• An A-Grader who comes ready to play
• No go home factor
• His age puts him right in the middle of the list hole
• It would give the older blokes and members some hope that success is not too far away
• Helps to attract other mature agers to the club
• Carlton Supporter in his youth!

If SOS can get him with a straight swap for pick 1 and maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder back then I think that's fair.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I can see the pros for Carlton moving on Shiel this year

• Cheaper than if he was taken as a FA
• 12 months of hopefully improved performances by the club in 2019
• An A-Grader who comes ready to play
• No go home factor
• His age puts him right in the middle of the list hole
• It would give the older blokes and members some hope that success is not too far away
• Helps to attrack other mature agers to the club
• Carlton Supporter in his youth!

If SOS can get him with a straight swap for pick 1 and maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder back then I think that's fair.

Pick 1 for Shiel?!?
He ain't that good

 

[Metalcrusher]

I can see the pros for Carlton moving on Shiel this year

• Cheaper than if he was taken as a FA
• 12 months of hopefully improved performances by the club in 2019
• An A-Grader who comes ready to play
• No go home factor
• His age puts him right in the middle of the list hole
• It would give the older blokes and members some hope that success is not too far away
• Helps to attrack other mature agers to the club
• Carlton Supporter in his youth!

If SOS can get him with a straight swap for pick 1 and maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder back then I think that's fair.

I'de be miffed if this happened …. I think SOS has his radar locked on to some serious leveraged negotiations. He would still have a ripping insight as to the currently contracted players within GWS and their scope for holding players due to constraints. I expect SOS will go in boots and all for a low end first round pick.

Reckon he will try to split pick 1 into a variety of picks to make this happen. That's what my gut tells me. Pick 1 straight up for Shiel …. does NOT make sense.

 

[F_therest]

I can see the pros for Carlton moving on Shiel this year

• Cheaper than if he was taken as a FA
• 12 months of hopefully improved performances by the club in 2019
• An A-Grader who comes ready to play
• No go home factor
• His age puts him right in the middle of the list hole
• It would give the older blokes and members some hope that success is not too far away
• Helps to attract other mature agers to the club
• Carlton Supporter in his youth!

If SOS can get him with a straight swap for pick 1 and maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder back then I think that's fair.

Your dot points make sense but that trade is way overs from us.

I'd want pick 1 for Shiel and gws first pick at least.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I can see the pros for Carlton moving on Shiel this year

• Cheaper than if he was taken as a FA
• 12 months of hopefully improved performances by the club in 2019
• An A-Grader who comes ready to play
• No go home factor
• His age puts him right in the middle of the list hole
• It would give the older blokes and members some hope that success is not too far away
• Helps to attract other mature agers to the club
• Carlton Supporter in his youth!

If SOS can get him with a straight swap for pick 1 and maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder back then I think that's fair.

Your first point...
Cheaper for who?

 

[Soapy V]

Pick 1 for Shiel?!?
He ain't that good

I just can't see it. Pick One for Shiel?

There is so much you can do with Pick One. Get the best young player. Trade it for 2-3 picks or very good players.

If SOS traded Pick One plus for Shiel I would be amazed. My belief is we will either keep it or trade it for multiple players/picks

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I just can't see it. Pick One for Shiel?

There is so much you can do with Pick One. Get the best young player. Trade it for 2-3 picks or very good players.

If SOS traded Pick One plus for Shiel I would be amazed.

It would be the 1st time i questioned this reset

 

[King Karl]

I think pick 1 for Shiel would be a ballpark offer if Free Agency didn’t exist..but it does..and he is a free agent next year.

 

[DangerousD]

Why do people think McVeigh would come to us. He is from NSW. Suspect his wife is from WA.

On the FA front SOS didn't sound like free agents were interesting in coming unless we made ridiculous offers.

I doubt McVeigh would come to us.

Where he is from is not really relevant imo, he wants to play on and Longmire has said he won’t get another contract, so a playing/coaching role might appeal to him.

I think Silvagnis comments were in regards to the high profile free agents and not the delisted ones.

 

[bmaurizio]

SOS confident he can get other clubs to overpay to upgrade to our first round pick, whatever that ends up being (especially if it's #1 or #2). Will make a play for Dylan Shiel this year again confident we can get him for unders given GWS has salary cap pressure going into 2019 and know they won't be able to retain him from 2020 onwards.

Edited to add: SOS will happily walk away from shiel this year if it doesn't pan out. Senior players would like to get more support in sooner rather than later though

If we end up with pick 1 or 2 surely due dillegence will be done.
It would have to be an absolutely amazing deal to sway a recruiter to trade away either pick . its been said by so many . Both Lukosius and Rankine are both very special talents, especially JL , I can't recall another underage CHF as talented, Nick Riewoldt perhaps Jessie Hogan in more recent times. He'll be a super star.

 

[Nori]

Your first point...
Cheaper for who?

Cheaper for Carlton than an all out bidding war.

 

[Metalcrusher]

It would be the 1st time i questioned this reset

Just won't happen Juddy ….

 

[DangerousD]

Cool. So Charlie lukosius and McKay could work. They’re all totally different players

Do you think Charlie and Luko are different?

Everything I’ve read have him as a roaming forward, playing wing, chb, good endurance. He sounds like Charlie but with a less aerial presence.

I’m quite concerned with a lineup with those 3 plus a ruck, I’m tipping we are on the wrong path and we won’t draft him.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Cheaper for Carlton than an all out bidding war.

He chooses a club. No other clubs are involved. He will get what he is worth

 

[Metalcrusher]

Cheaper for Carlton than an all out bidding war.

You make a valid point … Carlton will be in a very strong position in this draft. The reason I was at times anti Shiel is I couldn't see the strategical benefit of trading pick 1 for Shiel at 25/26 years old. I could see the team benefit (ie immediate impact) …. but future wise it didn't make sense.

So I suppose if SOS moves in this direction … targeting Shiel this year, he staves off the competition as you said …. with a my wallet is bigger than yours scenario.

Just really think Pick 1 for Shiel is not valid ….. low end first rounder. Yes .. yes … the peeps will jump in and say … but Gibbs …. and Treloar …. 2 x 1st rounders … but GWS KNOW they will get 5/8ths of **** all when he leaves for free at the end of 2019.

Offer has to be fair though from SOS (ie better than a compensation pick) or GWS might tell him to GAGF'd.

The two obvious choices SOS has to play with are:
Adelaide: 7, 14, 19
GCS: 6, 17, 23

Tipping Adelaide might spike SOS's interest with Lucozade being on their radar …. just reckon knobhead Reid will probably want Rankine as well.

 

[King Karl]

Cheaper for Carlton than an all out bidding war.

I would honestly rather pay Shiel $200k per year more if we could get him through free agency in 2019, rather than trading a top 10 pick for him in 2018.

E.g Shiel in 2018 cost $750k but costs at minimum a top 10 pick.
Shiel in 2019 cost $950k through FA.

I’ll take option B every time.

 

[bluemahogany]

SOS confident he can get other clubs to overpay to upgrade to our first round pick, whatever that ends up being (especially if it's #1 or #2). Will make a play for Dylan Shiel this year again confident we can get him for unders given GWS has salary cap pressure going into 2019 and know they won't be able to retain him from 2020 onwards.

Edited to add: SOS will happily walk away from shiel this year if it doesn't pan out. Senior players would like to get more support in sooner rather than later though

Would have been just fine with your 2 cents, but this works too

 

[Gethelred]

Nick wasn't that contested either ODN, most of his record breaking tally was out working players

Edited

Uncontested marks 3612
Contested marks 645

336 games, less than 2 contested marks a game

With the majority of those coming in the last 5 or so years of his career, as he evolved to meet what the game needed from him and their forward line lost their other goalkicking options so if he didn't kick a bag they didn't win.

 

[Nori]

I hope you are all right. I'm on record as saying that they should wait until next year and free agency, but if SOS is planning to lure a contracted Shiel away from GWS this year then he probably needs to pay a fair price.

Remember Collingwood paid 2 x Pick 7 and a 3rd rounder for Treloar, with a 2nd rounder back (from memory). And Treloar was out of contract, but admitedly younger. Carlton got 2 first rounders for Gibbs!

I get the distinct impression from this board that most punters overrate the value of Pick 1. Go back 10 years and let's do the maths. What are the chances of pick 1 producing a player that's significantly better than Shiel?

I understand the sentiment because pick 1s are so rare and that's probably why they don't get traded or split.

If SOS keeps pick one I'd be very happy with that outcome.

 

[Johnny James]

I just can't see it. Pick One for Shiel?

There is so much you can do with Pick One. Get the best young player. Trade it for 2-3 picks or very good players.
If SOS traded Pick One plus for Shiel I would be amazed. My belief is we will either keep it or trade it for multiple players/picks

Spot on mate.
You know and I know Soapy that's not going to happen. ( Regarding Shiel that is).
Firstly, if we get pick 1, I would think any trade involving it would be heavily in our favour.
I think we all know from past experiences that if SOS doesn't think it's a good deal for us he will walk away.
I don't see him changing that philosophy.