Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[BoltonsBlues]

There may be other ways to get a gold coast or adelaide first round draft pick this year. Packaging both our seconds this year and our future second while keeping this and next years first. Would love to see scenarios where this plays out fairly for all teams involved. I feel trading our first may be easyier if we have a first round pick already in the bag

 

[PrinceCharles]

His ACL will be fine by next year. If we were pushing for finals right not I suspect he'd be making a comeback. By pre-season he'll be 100% and by next season he'll be fine to play any position without issue.

Would never talk with such confidence when it comes to ACL's.

 

[BluesRule]

Sheil and Setterfield,
Would be nice..

Would give #1 for those 2!

 

[__Bobcat__]

 

[Coops93]

Would never talk with such confidence when it comes to ACL's.

Length of recovery time aside, ACLs aren't that bad these days. I'd only start to worry if he'd done multiple on the same knee, but he hasn't, so there's no reason to not be confident.

 

[harrisendblue]

His ACL will be fine by next year. If we were pushing for finals right not I suspect he'd be making a comeback. By pre-season he'll be 100% and by next season he'll be fine to play any position without issue.

Im a little to cautious for a player that's so important to us. Whilst rehab techniques have improved dramatically we see numerous instances of guys getting multiple acl's so I would prefer to be ultra cautious with him. Let him settle down back on HB maybe some minutes playing wing as the season progresses and then gear up for a bigger role in 2020.

 

[Coops93]

Im a little to cautious for a player that's so important to us. Whilst rehab techniques have improved dramatically we see numerous instances of guys getting multiple acl's so I would prefer to be ultra cautious with him. Let him settle down back on HB maybe some minutes playing wing as the season progresses and then gear up for a bigger role in 2020.

Once it's fully recovered it's fully recovered. There's no difference in what position he's playing, so easing into it so to speak won't make a difference. It's not as though he's coming back only as he's just getting up to fitness. An ACL is essentially a 9 month injury now, and he did it in November-ish iirc. He'd be nearly fit enough to play now, by pre-season he'll be well and truly 100% fit at which point playing position won't mean anything.

If anything playing defence would be worse, the aerial contests are where most happen. The jumping and awkward landings with contact etc. cause more than running around the midfield.

 

[Lace_Out]

Length of recovery time aside, ACLs aren't that bad these days. I'd only start to worry if he'd done multiple on the same knee, but he hasn't, so there's no reason to not be confident.

A study has revealed that athletes under 20 have a 1 in 3 chance of redoing their acl within 5 years.
For this reason I say no to King and anyone else who fits that profile.

 

[Coops93]

A study has revealed that athletes under 20 have a 1 in 3 chance of redoing their acl within 5 years.
For this reason I say no to King and anyone else.

Probably proven true by Lever and Patton. I assume under 20 has much to do with the fact they're still growing and developing physically, so doing that sort of injury is devastating to that development.

I wonder how it changes for fully grown men, or at least over 22/23 yr olds. Docherty is 24, so hopefully past that danger zone.

But my point is more he has until next season before he has to be fit, given the timing of the injury he has more like 18 months to recover as opposed to the normal 10-12 months. Because of this we don't need to be as cautious with him. It's not like it's 12 months and he's back into the 1s, in which case I'd agree with the cautious approach.

 

[harrisendblue]

Once it's fully recovered it's fully recovered. There's no difference in what position he's playing, so easing into it so to speak won't make a difference. It's not as though he's coming back only as he's just getting up to fitness. An ACL is essentially a 9 month injury now, and he did it in November-ish iirc. He'd be nearly fit enough to play now, by pre-season he'll be well and truly 100% fit at which point playing position won't mean anything.

If anything playing defence would be worse, the aerial contests are where most happen. The jumping and awkward landings with contact etc. cause more than running around the midfield.

Maybe or the straight ahead running and coming in as third man up without a contest provides a better transition back into the game. Whilst they might be at their pre injury fitness levels he wont be footy fit which is compounded after missing a years footy. He is to important as one of our fee AA's and leader to experiment with - his move to the midfield was going to be an experiment and no guarantee it was going to work anyway.

 

[El Topo]

Once it's fully recovered it's fully recovered. There's no difference in what position he's playing, so easing into it so to speak won't make a difference. It's not as though he's coming back only as he's just getting up to fitness. An ACL is essentially a 9 month injury now, and he did it in November-ish iirc. He'd be nearly fit enough to play now, by pre-season he'll be well and truly 100% fit at which point playing position won't mean anything.

If anything playing defence would be worse, the aerial contests are where most happen. The jumping and awkward landings with contact etc. cause more than running around the midfield.

Recovery is holistic - the knee may be recovered, but it's an old cliche that players take a year back on the park to regain confidence in their body.

 

[Coops93]

Recovery is holistic - the knee may be recovered, but it's an old cliche that players take a year back on the park to regain confidence in their body.

Again with my point regarding it's more like 18 months since the injury. He'll be 6 months recovery/training on top of an already cautious ACL recovery period, so he should have substantially more confidence and fitness than in most cases.

 

[bmaurizio]

I have no problem taking Walsh at pick 1 and backing in the KPF's we have

Strange thing though, currently Lukosius is actually playing against men, while Walsh isn't

Yes and Lukosius continues to impress too, so it dismisses theory that tall players need 4 to 5 years before showing results.
If we end up with 1st pick, snare him quickly, the thought of two Charlies running around the park is overwhelming. Agresta needs to find Cripps some help too and in a few years are woes are over.

 

[El Topo]

Again with my point regarding it's more like 18 months since the injury. He'll be 6 months recovery/training on top of an already cautious ACL recovery period, so he should have substantially more confidence and fitness than in most cases.

No substitute for gametime though! We'll be fine either way, even if it takes an extra year for Doc to take the (co-)mantle

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Before his injury Doc was talking about spending more time in midfield this year. He spent a little bit last year but he was looking to expand that role. So there's probably room for Byrne still if that's the case.

At the rate people here want to turn our defenders into midfielders or wings, the only people we should be looking to draft are defenders. No need to draft midfielders at all.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Would have to be tempting offer to trade pick 1. Must keep a pick in top 5.

Really want Walsh. Actually think he will push to #1 contention, so wouldn't be confident trading it off to anyone except for maybe Adelaide, who would take Lukosius.

Adelaide don't have the picks required though. If they could secure pick 2 or 3 from Gold Coast somehow, then we can talk pick 1.

GCS are not giving up their likely back to back picks. Whether they be picks 2 and 3. or 3 and 4. It wont happen. At worst, they swap pick 3 for pick 1 and something else. But they will keep their likely back to back picks.

 

[Coops93]

At the rate people here want to turn our defenders into midfielders or wings, the only people we should be looking to draft are defenders. No need to draft midfielders at all.

In this case it's not us calling for it but the player himself.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Length of recovery time aside, ACLs aren't that bad these days. I'd only start to worry if he'd done multiple on the same knee, but he hasn't, so there's no reason to not be confident.

Where's the data to show they aren't so bad these days? I think after the last two weeks we shouldn't be so sure.

 

[Coops93]

Where's the data to show they aren't so bad these days? I think after the last two weeks we shouldn't be so sure.

Depends what data you want to look at?

Players come back and play at least as good far more often than they used to. ACLs used to mean you would never be the same player again. Now it's basically 10-12 months off and you'll come back pretty darn close to how you were before. That's what I was referring to by not so bad these days. Unless you do multiple, then you see issues ala Dan Menzel. Even then he's played bloody well, it's just niggles he picks up so misses some time.

 

[Tyruddanaut]

Why would Adelaide do that?

Are very keen on Rankine and Lukosius and they are almost guaranteed to get one, otherwise they will have to settle with Walsh (oh no). Maybe the fringe player is too much to ask, but something similar is plausible

 

[No1Suspect]

I have no problem taking Walsh at pick 1 and backing in the KPF's we have

Strange thing though, currently Lukosius is actually playing against men, while Walsh isn't

He chopped up nth ressies when given the chance to play against men though

 

[PrinceCharles]

Depends what data you want to look at?

Players come back and play at least as good far more often than they used to. ACLs used to mean you would never be the same player again. Now it's basically 10-12 months off and you'll come back pretty darn close to how you were before. That's what I was referring to by not so bad these days. Unless you do multiple, then you see issues ala Dan Menzel. Even then he's played bloody well, it's just niggles he picks up so misses some time.

Done one before Coops? Sounds like you have some experience with them.

 

[Arr0w]

He chopped up nth ressies when given the chance to play against men though

True, but that was one game and I rate the SANFL is a stronger competition

As I said, I rate Walsh highly, but to suggest he is better, based on Lukosius not playing against men is flawed

I can understand people think we should draft a mid with pick one, or even rating Walsh best talent in the land, but not that he has better exposed form against men

 

[Lace_Out]

Probably proven true by Lever and Patton. I assume under 20 has much to do with the fact they're still growing and developing physically, so doing that sort of injury is devastating to that development.

I wonder how it changes for fully grown men, or at least over 22/23 yr olds. Docherty is 24, so hopefully past that danger zone.

But my point is more he has until next season before he has to be fit, given the timing of the injury he has more like 18 months to recover as opposed to the normal 10-12 months. Because of this we don't need to be as cautious with him. It's not like it's 12 months and he's back into the 1s, in which case I'd agree with the cautious approach.

Not sure how growth plays into it all.
As far as Doc goes I have more faith in his recovery as he is meticulous and hard working which is what is required with rehab. And your recovery is only as good as your commitment to rehabilitation.

The other thing I left out with the previous stat, fwiw, was that height is irrelevant.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I have no problem taking Walsh at pick 1 and backing in the KPF's we have

Strange thing though, currently Lukosius is actually playing against men, while Walsh isn't

And nowhere near physically developed as a key possie player will be eventually!!

I wish we had pick 1 & 2, Luko and Walsh come on down.

Scratch that, I wish we had 1,2 and 3 and add Rankine