Autopsy Rd 20 - Another Giant loss for the outclassed Blues

[Funk]

Got himself a nice dose of Vitamin D soaking in the Brisbane sun.

Vitamin D is underrated

 

[Arr0w]

Yeah that’s right, the List Manager who told me, was lying to my face, thanks for reminding me, when I see him tomorrow I’ll let him know.

Clearly he doesn't rate all 3 as midfielders

 

[Funk]

Turn it up ,Tomlinson has been in the system for years and this is Lob's what? a dozen games in ..

FWIW

Tomlinson first season average: 11 possession and 1.8 tackles
LOB: 13.3 possessions and 1.5 tackles.

 

[HARKER]

Hi all,
Recruitment: Could we have gone harder to find more diamonds in the rough? perhaps but in reality we are still building our recruitment department and how many diamonds are out there after pick 30.

Would have liked to have pulled apart a little more, but all that makes for more than common sense, but just on this highlighted question; The answer is YES.
Mining for diamonds is a difficult and painstaking task, but the rewards are often worth the effort.
You can't give up after pick 30 and you can't give up in the rookie draft either.

It seems to me we've addressed some of these shortcomings by recruiting the likes of Agresta from The Swans and only time will show up whether any fruits will come to bear from this appointment, but the idea was sound as long as there is no butting of heads in the List Management department.

BTW. Welcome

 

[Beast__Mode]

No excuses for the last quarter, plainly it was terrible on all levels.

Until that point I was fairly happy, in Carlton 2018 adjusted terms.

Positives:

H obviously. His hands when the ball is on the deck are really quite extraordinary for his size. As is his fluidity and game sense when he’s moving with the ball. Can’t recall 200+cm players with that level of ease of motion. Does need to work on the ball drop though, that wobble just before he lets the ball go can’t be good.

Also thought Marchbank was really positive. Just needs a decent run at it.

Daisy looked to me more purposeful and force in his movements and delivery than I can recall since being here. I’d give him another year.

Lobbe was decent again. I wouldn’t be shocked if another club made a play for him.

Dow gave us more glimpses, SPS is becoming much more consistent in his impact. Don’t need to say anything else re Charlie and Cripps.

Negatives:

I can see why they are giving Polson a run - injuries aside. I think he’s worth persisting with. However the types or errors he’s making are absolutely killing us because he’s turning the ball over in some horrible areas. Unfortunately he’s turning the ball over a lot right now because he’s panicking and also has some basic issues with skill execution. I’d be sending him back to the 2s to clean up his skill. Once he’s got that up to a required standard, bring him back. Development is one thing but we can’t carry a player who makes so many and such damaging mistakes.

Older deadweights, we know who they are, why they’re playing. Three more weeks.

Also thought we were particularly bad with decision making. On the rare occasions we had some time and space, there were some absolutely baffling decisions in ball use.

If GWS can get most of their team together, they’ll be playing Richmond in the GF. Awesome to watch such a combination of skill and spread. Scary stuff, even against poor opposition.

Anyway, these days will happen. Just need to survive three more weeks then figure out what sort of tribute the injury gods require for a decent run at it next year.

 

[Hands On]

He's soft and very outside....and they laughed at us for picking him!!

With LOB, I honestly believe the club recruited him and hopes he will one day be a Craig Bradley type player. Run all day with good delivery. In a more developed side we may see him flourish as an outside player. We definitely need cattle with good kicking skills.

 

[Funk]

Harks that's human nature though mate. When things are going swell no issue …. What pisses me off is people making blanket damning statements … then hitting the post button, without research or recourse … and then crying poor afterwards.

That in my opinion is childish, immature and reminiscent of school holiday posters.

State an opinion, validate those reasons with some sort of rationale … don't think there are too many on here that would begrudge that

Spot on MC.

I find it interesting to read alternative points of view.

When supported by reason, some analytics and logic - it makes me think and it's healthy.

Posters inferring their own opinions are fact is really silly.

As for some of the personal sledging going on here - grow up!!!!

 

[thylacine60]

as our autopsy thread pushes past 42 pages..........gws's caps out at 3 - and some of those posts are mine.........

 

[thylacine60]

Spot on MC.

I find it interesting to read alternative points of view.

When supported by reason, some analytics and logic - it makes me think and it's healthy.

Posters inferring their own opinions are fact is really silly.

As for some of the personal sledging going on here - grow up!!!!

will not will not!!

 

[BlueBayou]

Hi all,

First time poster and sorry for the essay that follows. I am a director of a company that markets for domestic builders I have been working in display home sales since 1996 and have been basically working seven days a week including every weekend, I have been following the BF Carlton board since day one. I have been following the blues since the late 60's and have enjoyed the glory days and suffered through the gloom for the last 2 decades with you all and through your posts. Simply big footy has been my life line to what the supporters are feeling. All you guys have been entertaining me for many years, but as expectations are not being met and we are all starving for success i find myself reluctant to get on the site.

I think we all need to take a deep breath and consider where we have come form. We only recently realised that in modern football a team can only be built through draft, effective recruiting, providing payers and staff with the right facilities, effective education and a Culture that compels players, coaches,admin staff and all involved to feel proud and privileged to be part of the organisation. We are all aware that we have only embraced such philosophies a few years ago. Reality is culture is not built over 3 years.

Previous administrations and their philosophies have put this once great club so far back it is ridiculous. We all now must realise that the rebuild on and off the field takes time. The key is to have a plan stick to it and fine tune it along the way where every subsequent tune up is an improvement and a step in the right direction. At the moment all indications are that the club is sticking fat with their vision and mission.

Recruitment:
All this talk about deficiencies in the playing list, coaches etc. Is most likely true, but we need to understand why they exist. Poor performance over a long period of time makes it hard to entice quality personnel on and off the field in any organisation. SOS has done a remarkable Job in trying to recruit a nucleus of young talented players to build a team around so we can all experience and enjoy sustained success. As some posters have already alluded to get some of these players he had trade away draft picks and accept/ take players off lesser quality (gap fillers and salary cap dumps), knowing that their time on the list was limited. We had to have the numbers. Could we have gone harder to find more diamonds in the rough? perhaps but in reality we are still building our recruitment department and how many diamonds are out there after pick 30.

Current List:
Extensive injuries have resulted in playing kids that would not have been exposed to the rigours of the demanding modern game. The players we are hoping will make a difference are all young raw and not physically developed as yet. The remainder are all gap fillers until we find or grow more suitable replacements. On the few games I have been lucky to attend you can see a significant difference in body mass, condition, aerobic capacity etc. In many cases some of these recruits have been pulling on the jumper all season regardless if their body and mind were cooked.

Having a go at gap fillers who are named due to necessity is futile. You cannot wave a magic wand and have 18 to 21 year old's bulk up in one preseason in fact as many of them are still growing men you can do more harm than good. We talk about us running out of steam by 3 quarter time well when you are playing opposition sides where players have multiple preseasons under their belt, have more years of exposure to correct diets, weight sessions and training this is inevitable. Most teams have a core of senior players and their gap fillers are some very good B graders and the young draft picks who are protected, watch and learn and develop under the tutelage of senior players. At the moment the players we expect to pull us through are Crippa, Charlie, Harry Mac, SPS, Dow, Fisher, LOB, etc.. Excluding Crippa (Freak of nature "beast"). Put these players around say 5 A graders, Like Doc, Kouta, Sticks, SOS, and Diesel and where do you think this team would be at? It takes time to find such types be lucky enough to recruit them and then develop them to the standards required.

Again I reiterate we need to remind ourselves that our rebuild/reset started two and a half years ago. Not every player we recruited was earmarked as a future star, let alone that all would make it as genuine AFL players. We fill our pan with sand and pebbles, we will rinse keep the nuggets and start prospecting again. It will take time but we will get there as long as we stick fat and true to our plan and keep improving how we do things, there is no other solution or magic recipe. Patience is the key.

Outstanding post, even more outstanding for being BOG on debut. Well reasoned, well argued,well said. Fantastic perspective. (Love the gold panning analogy)

 

[Funk]

On the current trajectory, I am concerned about the medium/long term progression, unless the following is addressed (in order).

1. Game Plan:
Our players do not understand how to defend under this game plan. It is either not being communicated properly, or is not suited to the current playing list. It is seeing us get successive goals kicked on us very quickly in patches during the game, and it has happened too many times this year for it to be an aberration. Yesterday there were multiple occasions where we allowed the opposition 3 shots on goal in < 2 minutes. Seeing players run away from a ball carrier to guard perceived space in a zone is bewildering.

I will say that I do appreciate that our ball movement over the last 2 weeks has gotten quicker than it was for the first half of the year, but skill execution letting us down. Too many times players handballing to a player in a position of no benefit. This is a product of trying to change the style of ball movement multiple times during the season (I'm sure this was the intention at the start of the year, but after the GC + Collingwood losses we went into shellshock and reverted back to slow ball movement to stem the bleeding). Posters will talk about continuity, but our coaching panel has not given our playing group continuity of playing style either.

I'll repeat what I said earlier in this thread, Brendon needs help. I would look at engaging Paul Roos on at least a casual basis to help out with strategy. I would also be undertaking a full, independent review of the football department, and complying with each recommendation.

2. Leadership:
Daisy & Ed in particular burn the ball/make bad decisions so often that it appears to become infectious across the playing group. Some of the physical efforts that Marc Murphy exerts when tackling are also disappointing, ditto Rowe.

We need vocal leaders, that hold the kids to account when they apply a poor effort. Right now, not only are our group not doing that, they are complicit in the half arsed efforts themselves. I'd be seeking Jarrad McVeigh to come to the club, purely to fill a void in this space.

3. Personnel (more broadly):
We have too many players that aren't capable of playing top flight football. Silvagni has intentionally sought these players from other teams to help balance us up. The strategy is flawed. It necessitates a continued revolving door of players in and out of the club year on year, and the playing group does not allow continuity with other players. At the end of this year, we are likely to see O'Shea and Mullett let go - if they were only recruited to play VFL, then they should have been drafted to the Northern Bullants squad, and we could have gotten a couple of young blokes from the draft to fill their spots. It can't be great for the younger players to see players getting knifed after being at the club for one year?

Sorry CM.

I see a lot of negativity here - and virtually no practical alternative solutions.

 

[Jeremias]

With LOB, I honestly believe the club recruited him and hopes he will one day be a Craig Bradley type player. Run all day with good delivery. In a more developed side we may see him flourish as an outside player. We definitely need cattle with good kicking skills.

I was being facetious.

Very happy with LOB and what he has shown to date.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

If you've paid for a membership what do save by not going to a game?

Time perhaps?

 

[Funk]

This is one of those times when it actually was quite funny

I laughed!!!!!

 

[Hands On]

Would have liked to have pulled apart a little more, but all that makes for more than common sense, but just on this highlighted question; The answer is YES.
Mining for diamonds is a difficult and painstaking task, but the rewards are often worth the effort.
You can't give up after pick 30 and you can't give up in the rookie draft either.

It seems to me we've addressed some of these shortcomings by recruiting the likes of Agresta from The Swans and only time will show up whether any fruits will come to bear from this appointment, but the idea was sound as long as there is no butting of heads in the List Management department.

BTW. Welcome

Yes so true, Must keep track of all potential draftees. Agresta, is my brother in-laws close fiend and I have met him at a couple of functions impressionable young man and switched on (never discussed footy however). My brother in lawhas told me that our recruitment department was seriously deficient and still has a long way to go. Club has and is still addressing this issue. Getting people in with the ability to identify talent and more importantly talent that can be educated is the key.

 

[HARKER]

I was at the open training session before the guys went to Sydney for the final in 2013... he was having a cracking good time with the players kicking at goal from 6m out... laughing and joking when they missed the goals. Right in front of me. I would have been screaming at them to concentrate if I was their coach! If the game had been closer and we ended up losing by 4 points because one of them missed kicking a goal from 6m out, I would have been screaming still!

You're not alone Dram.

Watched Barker at VFL games and from what I could tell, his level of interest was more about kicking the ball with kids at half time than it was about any consideration for what he was really there to do.
His focus at training sessions also seemed off to me, as he indulged in kicking torps with a couple of trainers when the sessions were still alive. Maybe a bit of blokiness and mateship works at times, but it all seemed quite unprofessional to me.
Couldn't understand his name even being brought up as a potential coach for the CFC and had have he got the nod, it would have been easy to turn ones back on the club altogether.

 

[Funk]

No. Do not encourage him. Anyone advocating 16 a side needs to have their species made extinct. No excuses.

Destroy the gene pool.....

 

[skadoosh]

Would have liked to have pulled apart a little more, but all that makes for more than common sense, but just on this highlighted question; The answer is YES.
Mining for diamonds is a difficult and painstaking task, but the rewards are often worth the effort.
You can't give up after pick 30 and you can't give up in the rookie draft either.

It seems to me we've addressed some of these shortcomings by recruiting the likes of Agresta from The Swans and only time will show up whether any fruits will come to bear from this appointment, but the idea was sound as long as there is no butting of heads in the List Management department.

BTW. Welcome

Fisher and Williamson possibly? I mean, do they need to be stars in their 2nd years do be a 'successful' pick? Some people are expecting our 2nd and 3rd year players to be tearing it up in the AFL. Realistically, how many current AFL stars were already judged as being successful in their 2nd and 3rd years? Give them the time they need to develop then judge them after 4-5 years in the system. I get that we want to try and 'fast track' as much as possible (albeit trying to appease unhappy supporters, but if you want sustained success, do it properly.

 

[Funk]

View attachment 538987

??

Well we got "pulped" on Sunday - and it wasn't "fiction"......,,

 

[BlueBayou]

as our autopsy thread pushes past 42 pages..........gws's caps out at 3 - and some of those posts are mine.........

Maybe we have a bit more to talk about......?

Maybe we are a real football club, not a confection made sweet for marketing purposes?

 

[thylacine60]

either we just don't rate or they just don't care..........maybe both...........

 

[BlueBayou]

either we just don't rate or they just don't care..........maybe both...........

Sadly true Thy, but not forever.

 

[jooce8891]

I've been watching Carlton games consistently since about 1993... not as long as some, perhaps a little longer then others... but I can honestly say I've never felt as embarrassed watching a game as I did today. The absolute ease with which GWS moved the ball around, with 17 men on the field in the last quarter, was just shocking... and honestly for the first time made me question whether or not we're ever going to get out of the doldrums.... I don't know what the answer is, but we are a long, long, long way from being anywhere near a competitive AFL side... GWS have a far more significant injury list then we do, debuted a player who basically made us a look like a bunch of little kids... and honestly treated playing us like a training drill.

I feel embarrassed, honestly I hope the players feel embarrassed... I'm no AFL / VFL historical genius, but I do wonder if its ever happened that a team with 17 players on the field, could cut apart a team with 18 players so easily... we may of made history today.

If it wasn't for McKay's encouraging performance I think I'd have to stop watching anymore games this season... just for my own emotional health.

sorry, I know its all been said before... and I'll end my rant now.... but honestly just feeling a little overwhelmed by how we have to go still.

what you have said i agree with but what helps me is comparing there top 5-6 players, then compare them with ours, and how many games the top 5-6 players have played, then have a look at our injury list without looks at gws's. Yes other teams have it just as bad as us (i.e collingwood, gws, adelaide at some stages even though we are sort of comparable to them) but they all have depth, we have literally NONE.
We are the team that can least afford to have injuries, but because the footy gods hate us we have one of the worst injury list.
Before you think these are excuses, it cant be excuses when they are the truth. We just need to hold out for another 1-2 years and we will be fine.
To be excited about our future you just need to look at our fully fit back line and the actual GOOD depth it has in Williamson, Plowman, Weiters, Simmo, Doc, Byrne, Jones, Marchbank, Macreadie, all young bar Jones and Simmo add a up coming Shumacher. Then look at our young midfield of SPS, Cripps, Dow, LOB, Fisher, Kennedy, + a possible Shiel, Gaff
When you look past the results its really not all doom and gloom we just got to suck it up for a little bit longer and expect and brace for more results like this over the next year while our kids develop and gel together every game they play.

 

[Doro]

6 y.o startup club in rugby league homeland. Long term thing.

 

[Hands On]

Fisher and Williamson possibly? I mean, do they need to be stars in their 2nd years do be a 'successful' pick? Some people are expecting our 2nd and 3rd year players to be tearing it up in the AFL. Realistically, how many current AFL stars were already judged as being successful in their 2nd and 3rd years? Give them the time they need to develop then judge them after 4-5 years in the system. I get that we want to try and 'fast track' as much as possible (albeit trying to appease unhappy supporters, but if you want sustained success, do it properly.

Reality is every team may have 2 to 3 outright stars. We have Crippa and Charlie, next level are players like Fisher, Williamson, Marchbank, Lob etc. these players have all shown they have the passion and ability they all are well on their way to becoming good solid contributes and show the potential to develop into very good players and hopefully stars. Some are naturally gifted (Charlie) and some are determined and work hard to get there (Crippa). Get mixture of both types in a team with this sort of mindset and you are on the right path. you can then review each season and make adjustments to coaching/support staff if required. until we build a nucleus of these type of players its hard to point the finger.