Mitch McGovern (please read OP)

[Tex200]

I think we can all become a bit desensitised now with players walking out of the club, and I agree there is potentially a positive outcome this time in so far as our chances of nabbing Luko are higher.

But overall the drain of quality talent has to bite and we can see it especially in that 150-200 game bracket. We should have strong, talented leadership but instead we have gaps, and only Richard/David.

Each time a talented player leaves we lose the years of development and must start again.

As a supporter I've, unfortunately, grown used to talent walking out. But the club should never get used to it. It's easy to say every club loses players, yes they do. But not of the same stature as the players we lose.

There's now overwhelming evidence that talented, first choice players, who should be settled into our system but leave, is a systemic and cultural issue. And it is an issue which is not offset by the fact some stay.

Until we overcome this, we will continue to chase our tails.

 

[cmndstab]

Always disappointing to lose someone, but this is probably the best possible scenario to do so. Contracted player, reportedly wants to go to a bottom club, SA talent at the top end of the draft, and the player leaving is highly talented and recognised as such but still kind of flukey and inconsistent, and we already hold a strong draft position which makes upgrading to the top of the draft a realistic premise. Also, the player leaving is part of a group of players we're already flush for, with Fogarty and Himmelberg both capable of stepping into his role next year.

If we play our cards right, this could turn into a big net win for us.

 

[DJ75]

Always disappointing to lose someone, but this is probably the best possible scenario to do so. Contracted player, reportedly wants to go to a bottom club, SA talent at the top end of the draft, and the player leaving is highly talented and recognised as such but still kind of flukey and inconsistent, and we already hold a strong draft position which makes upgrading to the top of the draft a realistic premise.

If we play our cards right, this could turn into a net win for us.

I suspect the framework of a deal has been in place for sometime. Signing Lynch painted us in to a corner with our excess of tall forwards. I think that we knew McGovern was heading out before we signed Lynch.

 

[cmndstab]

I suspect the framework of a deal has been in place for sometime. Signing Lynch painted us in to a corner with our excess of tall forwards. I think that we knew McGovern was heading out before we signed Lynch.

Also explains why we inexplicably decided to try arguably our most inconsistent player in defence. We presumably knew we weren't going to have him in the forward line going forward.

Honestly, in terms of players we can afford to lose, that will actually attract some value at the trade table, McGovern is probably the best player we could have leave.

 

[Morning_Fog]

I suspect the framework of a deal has been in place for sometime. Signing Lynch painted us in to a corner with our excess of tall forwards. I think that we knew McGovern was heading out before we signed Lynch.

I don’t.

This will end the same way as the previous 2 deals with Carlton. Past the deadline with no deal done or a deal at like 1:58pm. 2 morning minutes before the deadline.

They will not make it easy.

 

[GameofSloanes]

Well we can't control where he goes in the sense of forcing him to go wherever we choose. But we're under no obligation to do a deal with anybody if that deal doesn't favour us, so we can veto a trade to his desired club if they won't pay the price we want and he doesn't have the threat of the preseason draft to fall back on. I don't know if he's officially nominated a preferred destination (all this Carlton talk is still just rumour assumption at this point).

I think the Carlton stuff is based on reports a couple of months ago that SOS said we were asking about pick 1. Plus McClure's wet dreams

 

[GameofSloanes]

I don’t.

This will end the same way as the previous 2 deals with Carlton. Past the deadline with no deal done or a deal at like 1:58pm. 2 morning minutes before the deadline.

They will not make it easy.

We've been talking to them for months already

 

[Bazz_27]

I don’t.

This will end the same way as the previous 2 deals with Carlton. Past the deadline with no deal done or a deal at like 1:58pm. 2 morning minutes before the deadline.

They will not make it easy.

It finishes at night this year

 

[Morning_Fog]

We've been talking to them for months already

Ok.

This will not be easy. Let’s wait and see ok?

 

[Morning_Fog]

It finishes at night this year

11:59 pm

 

[GameofSloanes]

Easy big fella, you can’t talk down to Carlton until your team has more than 16 cups. Fact is Carlton is worth more to the AFL than the crows.

Lol, all but 1 of your flags are from the VFL so are not relevant. We have 2 AFL flags to your 1.
Carlton is not worth anything to anyone. You are completely irrelevant.

 

[Mego Red]

3 things

1 Carlton are losing nothing
2 Carlton don't have pick 19
3 GC would be getting right royally screwed if that trade were to happen

He he said very clearly that it was assuming Carlton get a priority pick.

 

[CrowMan90]

11:59 pm

After SOS slams his pillow onto his bed.

 

[Mego Red]

This McGovern plus pick 7 for pick 1 that’s being thrown around is ridiculous. So basically we get an upgrade of 6 picks? No thanks.

McGovern + a second round pick for pick 1 might work out better

It still needs to be a trade that another club will do.

 

[GameofSloanes]

Ok.

This will not be easy. Let’s wait and see ok?

Oh I agree, they will fight and scrape as long as possible. The only 2 scenarios we should be considering with them is that we either get a top 5 pick (likely sending a later first rounder with gov), or we keep gov. IDGAF if we don't trade him, they are the ones that have to pony up.

 

[#CQ#]

We've been talking to them for months already

over-spill from last year

 

[GameofSloanes]

Quite happy with our young kids coming through. Plus a good culture that’s doesn’t involve brain washing techniques.

Pretty good culture on display last weekend, those great kids you've got must have other things apart from football ability that make you happy. Enjoy your 3 win season next year, on the improve.

 

[Morning_Fog]

Oh I agree, they will fight and scrape as long as possible. The only 2 scenarios we should be considering with them is that we either get a top 5 pick (likely sending a later first rounder with gov), or we keep gov. IDGAF if we don't trade him, they are the ones that have to pony up.

100% agree

They need to know. Pick 1-5 or GAGF’d

 

[Murray2503]

I think we can all become a bit desensitised now with players walking out of the club, and I agree there is potentially a positive outcome this time in so far as our chances of nabbing Luko are higher.

But overall the drain of quality talent has to bite and we can see it especially in that 150-200 game bracket. We should have strong, talented leadership but instead we have gaps, and only Richard/David.

Each time a talented player leaves we lose the years of development and must start again.

As a supporter I've, unfortunately, grown used to talent walking out. But the club should never get used to it. It's easy to say every club loses players, yes they do. But not of the same stature as the players we lose.

There's now overwhelming evidence that talented, first choice players, who should be settled into our system but leave, is a systemic and cultural issue. And it is an issue which is not offset by the fact some stay.

Until we overcome this, we will continue to chase our tails.

There is a way to increase player retention and actually gain a player or two/free agent. The only way we are going to compete with the big 4 Vic Clubs which are now effectively the equivalent of Man City/United, Chelsea, Arsenal/Liverpool is to become super aggressive with players over 28. We must begin to trade out well payed players with value who are on decline. Players of the ilk of Douglas and Mackay 2-3 years ago. This will alleviate the stress on the salary cap with mid-tier players which is taking up too much of our cap for us to compete. We must overpay the best 22-25 year old's and make it very hard for interstate clubs. This is currently our major weakness and where interstate clubs are attacking us and this will only continue until our strategy is rectified. We must pay on future potential instead of past deeds as we always have. We must also create a much stronger club culture through a cleanout of the board and key decision makers/coaching staff who are not up to it. If we go down this path we can possibly compete in the AFL created EPL.

 

[GameofSloanes]

There is a way to increase player retention and actually gain a player or two/free agent. The only way we are going to compete with the big 4 Vic Clubs which are now effectively the equivalent of Man City/United, Chelsea, Arsenal/Liverpool is to become super aggressive with players over 28. We must begin to trade out well payed players with value who are on decline. Players of the ilk of Douglas and Mackay 2-3 years ago. This will alleviate the stress on the salary cap with mid-tier players which is taking up too much of our cap for us to compete. We must overpay the best 22-25 year old's and make it very hard for interstate clubs. This is currently our major weakness and where interstate clubs are attacking us and this will only continue until our strategy is rectified. We must pay on future potential instead of past deeds as we always have. We must also create a much stronger club culture through a cleanout of the board and key decision makers/coaching staff who are not up to it. If we go down this path we can possibly compete in the AFL created EPL.

So basically we are Tottenham?

 

[Mego Red]

Don't forget that Carlton also received our 2nd round pick this year - we got their 2nd & 3rd. Carlton have been death riding us all year, to great effect. That 2nd round pick we gave them was expected to be in the mid-30s, it will now be in the mid-20s.

As things currently stand, before FA compo & priority picks, the trade is as follows:
Adelaide received: Gibbs + pick 77 (2017) + pick 19 (2018) + pick 37 (2018)
Carlton received: pick 10 (2017) + pick 16 (2017) + pick 73 (2017) + pick 25 (2018)

Adelaide = Gibbs plus 1431 points
Carlton = 3327 points

Therefore Gibbs = 1896 points or pick 5.

Hindsight, maybe too high.

Of course, if our pick 25 was actually 35, it's closer to pick 8 in value.

Still maybe too high, but you also need to grab guaranteed players when you have the opportunity.

 

[GameofSloanes]

I suspect the framework of a deal has been in place for sometime. Signing Lynch painted us in to a corner with our excess of tall forwards. I think that we knew McGovern was heading out before we signed Lynch.

Rumours about gov wanting out have been around for almost a year, and intensified just before we signed lynch

 

[marvin]

But overall the drain of quality talent has to bite and we can see it especially in that 150-200 game bracket. We should have strong, talented leadership but instead we have gaps, and only Richard/David.

Surely the paucity of our 150-200 game bracket is less to do with the talent drain and more to do with who we drafted in the mid 2000s.

2004: Meesen (8), van Berlo (24), Gibson (28), Maric (40) and Knights (56)
2005: Douglas (16), Pfeiffer (17), Vince (32) and Obst (48)
2006: Sellar (14), Tippett (32), Mackay (48), Gill (64) and Campbell (78)
2007: Dangerfield (10), Otten (27), Jacky (30), Cook (38), Armstrong (58), Kite (71), Walker (75).

Of those 21 players, only 6 are still in the league. 4 of them are still at the club. Tippett and Dangerfield left big holes in the list, but Betts and Jacobs come from the same draft era and have both held leadership roles at the club. Roughly half the players we drafted in that era barely made a ripple in the league.

 

[The Edukator]

An explanation would be nice, because I think history in regards to trading for young players vs established players says I'm pretty close.

I put forward Lever vs Gibbs as one of many examples.

Lever wasn't even contracted.

I'd be keen to hear your explanation and happy to stand corrected.

The fact that Gibbs has many years of good performances vs a player that hasn't averaged more than 13 disposals a year. if you're going to play the oh but he has potential card, well walsh or lukosius arguably have more more potential so pick one would be used on them instead and we all know how desperate Carlton are for quality midfielders.

 

[GetInMyVanBerlo]

We knew he was going, why did we play him instead of Himmelberg against North?

Up his trade value, which I reckon he did when he went behind the ball and probably saved the game for us with his intercept marking.