Strategy Trade and List management Thread (cont in Part 2)

[Leviticus]

Unrestricted Free Agent. We can't match, it's completely out of our hands.

Was not aware. I hoping to see some posts on what sort of compo we should get. To my simple mind, it appears a similar contract to the Motlop contract, therefore, pick 19.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I can see why the Cats have gone after him. Great inside mid. Nippy, agile. Great contested ball winner. Great stamina, courage. A master at applying defensive pressure. Quick hands. Geelong's list is top heavy. It's holding them back. Selwood is an old rubberneck, Gazza is just an outside lurker these days. It's only Bruce Macavaney's love that keeps them going. They need a few players like Dahlhaus.

And they have offered him good coin. $500k x 4 years. That puts him into the top bracket. Not many players get a deal like that. They obviously wnt him and that's how far they have had to go to prise him away from us. Our offer couldn't have been that bad.

Based on the Motlop deal, which I understand was very similar, $500k x 4, we should get pick 19 as the compensation. Just like Geebung did. If it is only around pick 30, then we should have been informed in advance so that we could have chosen to match.

Motlop just snuck into band 2, as said by the AFL. Both he and Dahl were quoted as "over 500k" by the media. Other 26yo players who got $500k (Vickery, probably Trengove), only got band 3. So how much "over" 500k they each were/are will decide it. Also each year the salary cap goes up, and so do player salaries, so it takes higher salaries to be in the top bands. Also there's the (possibly tin-foil hat) theory that Geelong got band 2 for Motlop so they could trade it to GC for Ablett. All that will work against us. As far as I can tell at this point it will be line-ball, but my prediction would be band 3.

 

[Mattdougie]

Proof that Jong signed for that? Honey was given the last spot on our list, he will be on minimum so no more than that.

Trengove was never reported to be that high. It was reported to be around 400/450 which is in line with the compo Port would have got. He's also a half decent, experienced, Key Position player which always get paid a premium. As much as we love Dahl he's a small, poor skilled, mid who has lost any goalkicking ability

Haha proof or or didn’t happen

I’m not trolling back pages to find where people that are in the know said what players are getting.

Jongs agent asked for $1 mill over 3 years and he soghed for two so even if we assume he has to be close to the $330-$350 Mark, I’m sure someone respected can back this up. Then I’m completely guessing what Honey is on but I’d also assume it’s not less than $150

But well done for worrying about one comment I made lol. Even if they are on $400 they are still over paid

 

[jdz101]

It used to be a rare part of football.
Maybe I don't want to invest in players that may leave or be pushed out on a whim.

Must admit I feel the same as you. Seeing him in a geelong sweater will make me coat the walls with vomit.

 

[Mattdougie]

It used to be a rare part of football.
Maybe I don't want to invest in players that may leave or be pushed out on a whim.

It’s all we had in the 80s/early 90s

We were never really a chance to win a flag so we’re so invested in the indivial players they seemed like family.

I remember seeing Hawk in a Fitzroy jumper brought tears to my eyes. It’s just not the same anymore

 

[Draft Pick]

I honestly see no merit in the decision. He's a solid player hitting his prime amongst a bunch of kids. We severely lack his type. Adding in the emotional side and it's a pretty terrible decision.

Severely lack his type? Really ?

McLean, Wallis, Daniel, Dunkley, amongst others can play the various roles Luke has played during his time at the club.

 

[immortalmike]

 

[immortalmike]

Severely lack his type? Really ?

McLean, Wallis, Daniel, Dunkley, amongst others can play the various roles Luke has played during his time at the club.

McLean, Daniel and Dunkley are not 26 year olds about to hit their prime, which is what I was referring to.
We have very few senior bodies and heads on our list.

 

[Draft Pick]

View attachment 554204

You can’t take the flag away from him, or the Dogs.

It has been a great association, but sometimes things move on.

 

[timtamWB]

Watch his interview after the flag and ask yourself if that's a bloke who'd willingly leave just two years later?

Two years is a very long time. It might not even be malicious, the combination of being down on form, not getting the results on the field and getting a very good offer from somewhere else might have just been enough to change his mind.

 

[Leviticus]

Motlop just snuck into band 2, as said by the AFL. Both he and Dahl were quoted as "over 500k" by the media. Other 26yo players who got $500k (Vickery, probably Trengove), only got band 3. So how much "over" 500k they each were/are will decide it. Also each year the salary cap goes up, and so do player salaries, so it takes higher salaries to be in the top bands. Also there's the (possibly tin-foil hat) theory that Geelong got band 2 for Motlop so they could trade it to GC for Ablett. All that will work against us. As far as I can tell at this point it will be line-ball, but my prediction would be band 3.

Don't know much about the Vickery case (other than that the Hawks got a lemon) but I keep reading that Trengove was not over 500K and I have also heard that it is a 3 rather than a 4 year deal.

One thing is for certain, AFL will jib us.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

McLean, Daniel and Dunkley are not 26 year olds about to hit their prime, which is what I was referring to.
We have very few senior bodies and heads on our list.

What have you seen over the last two season to suggest he’s about to hit his prime ?
His game has slowly declined since 15/16. If anything it suggests his career may not hit the form he showed during the years prior to that.

 

[Mattdougie]

Don't know much about the Vickery case (other than that the Hawks got a lemon) but I keep reading that Trengove was not over 500K and I have also heard that it is a 3 rather than a 4 year deal.

One thing is for certain, AFL will jib us.

Carlton and the suns will get concession picks before our compo

Dahl will probably get us a comp 3 pick knowing our luck, mid 30s

 

[fpm84]

Hi guys, I come in peace. Have always liked and rated Dahlhaus (was actually at his first ever game!) and thought he was so crucial to your flag year.

I don’t understand why we are chasing him given the strength of our midfield and the fact we are sorely lacking in other areas (namely small forwards and rucks) but will happily take him if, as reported, he accepts a FA offer from us.

I’m really confused why the Dogs are letting him go though. He seems such a heart and soul player who bleeds red white and blue. I know his form hasn’t been at its best in 2017/18 but he’s young in football terms and your young team seems in need of experience....

If the reported figure of $500k is true I don’t think it’s overs at all and am very surprised the Dogs wouldn’t be willing to match or better that offer.

Any insights? From the outside it’s confusing and I believed he would stay at the Dogs until you put out that statement this evening.

 

[Mattdougie]

Hi guys, I come in peace. Have always liked and rated Dahlhaus (was actually at his first ever game!) and thought he was so crucial to your flag year.

I don’t understand why we are chasing him given the strength of our midfield and the fact we are sorely lacking in other areas (namely small forwards and rucks) but will happily take him if, as reported, he accepts a FA offer from us.

I’m really confused why the Dogs are letting him go though. He seems such a heart and soul player who bleeds red white and blue. I know his form hasn’t been at its best in 2017/18 but he’s young in football terms and your young team seems in need of experience....

If the reported figure of $500k is true I don’t think it’s overs at all and am very surprised the Dogs wouldn’t be willing to match or better that offer.

Any insights? From the outside it’s confusing and I believed he would stay at the Dogs until you put out that statement this evening.

Strength of your midfield? Explain?

Two players about to fall off the cliff(if one already hasn’t)

No one is sustained you are chasing Dahl and those of us who can think understand the 500k per year but the 4 years is surprising

Seems we just aren’t willing to pay for mid tier players anymore and ratehe keep depth players at a reduced cost.

I have a personal opinion why this is happening that differs to most here but it starts at last years trade table imo. Since then Luke has felt differently and then lowballing him an offer pushed him out.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

meh...I know one thing for certain, Im glad we didn't offer him 4 years.

 

[immortalmike]

You can’t take the flag away from him, or the Dogs.

It has been a great association, but sometimes things move on.

Sometimes they do. It doesn't mean I have to like or agree with it.

What have you seen over the last two season to suggest he’s about to hit his prime ?
His game has slowly declined since 15/16. If anything it suggests his career may not hit the form he showed during the years prior to that.

I don't agree with the narrative that his 2017 was all that different from the aforementioned other years. And I have it on good authority that he played with a significant knee injury this year. Further the type of player he is thrives in a good team, couple that with him hitting prime age and I think Geelong will be very happy with their acquisition.

 

[go you pups]

Lol believe it when I see it. Honey and Iong will both be in red white and blue again next year because we can sign them for donuts and that seems the new way we are moving forward

Has worked for Hawthorn and Geelong this method keeping VFL standard depth on their list for a long time, probably more so Geelong

 

[Leviticus]

Lukus von Dahlhaus. We have lost our German star. Our little field corporal. Gone.

Can't we go back to Germany and see if they have another coming off the production line?

We could tell them that we don't mind if he comes without the dreadlocks. We are not that fussy, we accept all types of hair, facial hair, whatever. If he comes with a little moustache, that's fine with us.

Just as long as we got another little field corporal like Dahlhaus.

 

[fpm84]

Strength of your midfield? Explain?

Two players about to fall off the cliff(if one already hasn’t)

Take out Ablett and Selwood (both close to the end) and we still have Dangerfield, Duncan, Kelly, Menegola, S Selwood and developing players like Parfitt, Cockatoo and Constable.

As I said our midfield is our strength with or without Dahlhaus.

I would rather we spend the $500k chasing a ruck or small forward but so be it, am keen to get some Dogs fans opinions about why Luke may be leaving.

 

[Mattdougie]

Has worked for Hawthorn and Geelong this method keeping VFL standard depth on their list for a long time, probably more so Geelong

True

But they have also been able to recruit walk up best 22 year on year out so that keeps the depth as depth.

We haven’t so the depth gets more games than it should as they both proved this year.

 

[Igloo]

On one hand, it sucks to be losing a premiership player who was much loved, as well as in an important age bracket that we lack.
On the other hand, his form has been poor barring a few games for 2 years. He has obviously been a bit hampered by injury during that time, but it doesn't completely excuse his unacceptable use of the footy during that time.
Start of the year I was completely happy for him to go. Towards the end of the year, I didn't want him to. I still don't want him to. But I am 100% behind the decision to not bow to further years or money in his contract. If he wants to leave because of that, can't do much about it. There is loyalty to the player, but there is also loyalty to the club. You've seen it with the Hawks, you've seen it with the Cats, and now you've seen it with the Tigers who are about to sign ****ing Tom Lynch. Premiership players accepting a little bit less to keep a group together. If he thinks he can keep a good standard of footy going for 3 years, which he obviously does, he'd earn another contract at the end of it anyway. Of course, he needs to look after himself first. So if the security of an extra year and more money trumps staying at the club, so be it.

It'll be horrible seeing him in a Cats guernsey next season and beyond, but I personally can't help but feel a little bitter at Luke himself for bailing over the size of the contract. I think the extra year rather than the money is the sticking point, because I can't see us offering him a huge amount less than 500. I'd be comfortable giving him anything from 400-450.

 

[Mattdougie]

Take out Ablett and Selwood (both close to the end) and we still have Dangerfield, Duncan, Kelly, Menegola, S Selwood and developing players like Parfitt, Cockatoo and Constable.

As I said our midfield is our strength with or without Dahlhaus.

I would rather we spend the $500k chasing a ruck or small forward but so be it, am keen to get some Dogs fans opinions about why Luke may be
leaving.

S Selwood is a tagger and Kelly is going
To WA

Sorry to disagree but your midfield is mid table.

Fully fit I’d back ours in every week against yours.

Imo Luke is leaving because we put him on ththe trade table last year and then denied it. We then lowballed him with a contract offer miles off what he wanted so he has told the club to heck off. Others will say this isn’t true but I firmly believe it

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Don't know much about the Vickery case (other than that the Hawks got a lemon) but I keep reading that Trengove was not over 500K and I have also heard that it is a 3 rather than a 4 year deal.

One thing is for certain, AFL will jib us.

I feel like I'm constantly repeating myself on this point, but length of contract barely matters. Only used as a tie-breaker in the rare case of two exactly the same salaries.

 

[dogwatch]

I think there will be one or two free agency signings to cover the loss of dahl and roughead.

I don't necessarily think compensation for dahlhaus is something to be discussed.

Why on earth not?

The biggest anomaly of the Free Agency arrangements is that clubs get the player for nothing other than the salary they agree to pay him. The club that loses the player does however get a draft pick as compensation ... and this magically appears out of thin air! (In reality we know that it is a conjuring trick whereby all other clubs slip one place down the draft order. In effect the other 16 clubs pay the compo on behalf of the club that gets the so-called "free" agent.)

In the case of well-paid FAs the compensation can be a pick in the 20s in the ND, sometimes even in the top 5 (eg Lynch). Depending on your luck at the draft that could well be a 10-year 200-game player.

However another somewhat quirky feature of Free Agency is that if your club receives a FA in the same year that it loses a FA, you are unlikely to get any compensation at all (depends how much difference there is in their contracts and ages). On the face of it this is fair. However it provides a disincentive for clubs to go after FAs that year.

Now that Dahlhaus has walked, it seems to me that the tactical machinations around whether we go after FAs ourselves should be very much at the centre of our off-season strategy and the compensation issue (potentially losing a compo pick of around 20-28) is critical to those machinations.
It could be another Toby McLean for instance.

So why wouldn't we discuss that at length ... like we do everything else?