The war against renewable energy

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Admiral Byng said:
Forget Tesla and Musk, and just concentrate on the batteries. They work better than anticipated in regulating the network.

For the record I am a Musk detractor. His empire will collapse in a stinking heap soon. But there will still be engineers around who can build batteries and power distribution networks.
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the report re the batteries operations highlighted they respond much quicker than the current residual system. However the time difference does not result in any operational improvement.

So if it's not operational improvement, the only benefit is price. Given that information has not been publicly released and we are now paying for two residual systems, it is hard to understand how there could be a financial benefit.

So if it's not financial or operational........what is the benefit?
 

Sad to think some people and dishonest state governments think reliability or lack there of is a blackout.

Reliability can be measured in a number of ways but an easy way to test is through price.

If you need double or triple residual back up sources, you have to pay for double or triple the fixed costs and a multiple on operating costs as systems need to run be it used or not.

That’s the cost of unreliable power.
 

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Admiral Byng said:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-b...ends-industry-bananas-over-performance-38273/

It’s now been just over 18 months since those famous “billionaire tweets” – between Australian software pioneer Michael Cannon-Brookes and Tesla founder Elon Musk – set in motion a process that would see South Australia install the largest lithium-ion battery in the world.

The Tesla big battery, officially known as the Hornsdale Power Reserve (it is located next to the 317MW Hornsdale wind farm) has defied skeptics, and even the experts, in almost every conceivable way.

They said it couldn’t be done. Batteries can’t be that big. They can’t be built that quick. They won’t work. Ten months on from its installation, the Tesla big battery has emphatically proven its worth – faster, quicker, more accurate, more reliable and more flexible than even the market operator thought possible.


More importantly, it has given a glimpse of the future, how a grid can be effectively managed with a very high share of wind and solar – not just faster, but also cleaner, smarter and more reliable than the dumb and ageing fossil fuel grid we now depend on ....


==========================================

.. and so on. Refer link for full article. not the most impartial source, but still an interesting read.
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The company has made money, its costing the govt plenty to subsidise this, its uneconomic.
 

The federal government have discredit themselves by their own stated measure. The SA govt acted, which seems to be the trend. State govts for action, federal for the media’s entertainment
 
Bradesmaen said:
I'm sure there are many reasons that you haven't gone into that are the difference between Denmark's high power prices and that of other nations...

Also Denmark barely uses Hydro, stop lying.
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50% wind power mostly in the ocean is why they are so expensive. 5% is french nuclear and Europe hydros, this allows them to cover days when the wind doesn't blow. IE on some days it might be 80% nuclear and then none for weeks. The rest is pretty much fossil fuels. If they move any further on renewables they will need more French nuclear power. This is a very expensive mix.
 
Hawk Dork said:
Thats probably a similar argument you can make against all privatisation
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No only renewables. If you build a gas plant etc you pretty much have to sell at spot prices on nemco, renewsbles dont work unless the state buys most of the power at a high rate and guarantees that regardles of the spot rate being 4 times less. That's why power prices have exploded
 
Bradesmaen said:
The market is the market PowerFail. If someone wanted to come in and build a power station in Adelaide, they would. They don't because of the market. If electricity was still nationalised I'm sure it would be cheaper for South Australia... You know if you ever understood anything about the electricity market rather than passing off stats that you have no idea of the meaning behind, you would actually understand this. Go away and play in your chinese coal factory.
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Electricity has a market down the east coast. But renewables are outside that because they sell at prearranged rates for a large % of generation. If the market was truly open SA would build their own fossil fuel plants.
 
Sainteric said:
No only renewables. If you build a gas plant etc you pretty much have to sell at spot prices on nemco, renewsbles dont work unless the state buys most of the power at a high rate and guarantees that regardles of the spot rate being 4 times less. That's why power prices have exploded
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There are many reasons power prices went through the roof and gold plated poles and wires is a much much larger factor than renewables
 
Sainteric said:
50% wind power mostly in the ocean is why they are so expensive.
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Rubbish

4207_value3_3625.jpg
 
Sainteric said:
50% wind power mostly in the ocean is why they are so expensive. 5% is french nuclear and Europe hydros, this allows them to cover days when the wind doesn't blow. IE on some days it might be 80% nuclear and then none for weeks. The rest is pretty much fossil fuels. If they move any further on renewables they will need more French nuclear power. This is a very expensive mix.
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Bradesmaen has not even bothered to look at where Denmark gets its energy from when the wind isn't blowing. He fails to understand that power is shifted across borders including French nuclear, germany's coal or the norden hydro and nuclear.
 
Power Raid said:
Bradesmaen has not even bothered to look at where Denmark gets its energy from when the wind isn't blowing. He fails to understand that power is shifted across borders including French nuclear, germany's coal or the norden hydro and nuclear.
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They started reducing the need to import fossil fuel to run their own generators in the 70s, now they import power when needed from Norways Hydro ,Swedens Nuclear and Germanys Solar they also export when its windy.

New onshore wind plants coming online in 2016 will provide energy for about half the price of coal and natural gas plants, according to the Danish Energy Agency (DEA), and will cost around five cents per kilowatt hour.

https://thinkprogress.org/onshore-w...m-of-new-electricity-in-denmark-4577abb9bb49/
 

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Hawk Dork said:
They started reducing the need to import fossil fuel to run their own generators in the 70s, now they import power when needed from Norways Hydro ,Swedens Nuclear and Germanys Solar they also export when its windy.

New onshore wind plants coming online in 2016 will provide energy for about half the price of coal and natural gas plants, according to the Danish Energy Agency (DEA), and will cost around five cents per kilowatt hour.

https://thinkprogress.org/onshore-w...m-of-new-electricity-in-denmark-4577abb9bb49/
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5c per kilowatt hour is fabulous and should be the target.

However that should be 5c per kilowatt to meet demand and not a misleading 5c when it works.
 
Baltimore Jack said:
Renewables forecast to halve wholesale energy prices over four years
Analysis shows 7,200MW of renewables added to grid after closures of coal-fired plants

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...halve-wholesale-energy-prices-over-four-years
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Very loose economics from a solar power lobby group, almost like asking the ABC for a non biased reporting.

Additional 7MW of supply in theory would reduce prices if the market was open and supply could be at any time.

The replacement of coal generation is more or less the same so not a lot of extra power. The power will be produced mostly outside the peaks had have little effect on prices. Renewables are expensive no one is going to build one without well above market rates guaranteed.

In short this a good bit of green fiction.
 
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