#21 - Braydon Preuss - Dropping bombs from outside 50 cause that's what ruckmen do

[stretcharmstrong]

I don’t particularly rate leg speed. In fact, it’s massively over rated and is annoying to hear people constantly banging on about it. I much prefer foot kicking. Quick, precise ball movement by kicking trumps everything else in our game.

What the hell are you banging on about, stretch mother ****ing Armstrong, I hear you ask?

I don’t mind this Preuss pickup. It kind of makes sense to have at least one backup for every position on a list of 40+. But apparently he’s been given an assurance of playing, otherwise why TF would he come to the club with the best ruckman in the game, reportedly on a 4 year deal no less?

I predict that at least half the learned posters in here enjoying this pickup will be screaming either for this guy’s or for Goodwin’s scalp three rounds in to 2019 over a lack of <vomit> leg speed.

Seriously, how the **** are we fitting in all these talls? May? Lever returning? Hogan staying? Genuinely confused.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

We needed a back up ruckman and we got a good one. At least that solves one issue and will stop the "we are screwed if Max goes down" comments.

I am concerned we are going in to 2019 way too tall. IF we are thinking of playing 2 rucks at various stages(which it appears we have told Preuss and Max we will be), then it goes against current trends of the game. I simply cant see how, TMac, Weid, Hogan, Pruess, Gawn, plus OMac, Frost and Lever will be a winning combination. Far too tall. Yes, we might not have Hogan next season, but by the sounds of it May will replace him if that happens. I'm sure one of Frost or Omac misses once Lever comes good. I don't know, it just seems far too tall to me.

Also, as frustrating as Tyson was, he was the immediate replacement when one of our gun mids got injured. He was like our 6th man off the bench who could come straight in and not look out of place in the middle. Who is that guy now? I think with Kent, Tyson, Bugg etc leaving, our depth which was looking decent, has now vanished and looks like being replaced with what? VFL players or players who've been rejected by multiple clubs? Like i said, as frustrating as Tyson was, we should have done more to keep him IMO.

Couldn’t possibly agree more.

 

[Topkent]

Lycett, Roughead, and Pike weren’t traded in. McEvoy, Ottens, and Jolly were all traded for one first rounder and more. Hale traded for a pick at the end of the first round. Literally only Nank meets your criteria.

I’m not arguing with you, you’ll just never be able to get away with making stuff up while I’m around

You still aren't getting it. Why pay pick 18 for a ruck and develop them for 7 years and lose them when history says you can pay pick 18 when they are 25 anyway.

That's my whole point. Whether They are taken 20 and traded for 15 isn't

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

You still aren't getting it. Why pay pick 18 for a ruck and develop them for 7 years and lose them when history says you can pay pick 18 when they are 25 anyway.

That's my whole point. Whether They are taken 20 and traded for 15 isn't

You're taking what's actually a few isolated but prominent examples and posturing it as though it's some kind of actual trend, which it's not. A few clubs which have already been largely successful have benefited in this way, yes, but to say that success has followed from them pursuing this strategy is inventing causation. Dozens upon dozens of rucks have come and go in the last few decades. Not every club can rely on this happening for them, and it's ridiculous to suggest that any would rest on this expectation as a recruiting strategy.

 

[Topkent]

You're taking what's actually a few isolated but prominent examples and posturing it as though it's some kind of actual trend, which it's not. A few clubs which have already been largely successful have benefited in this way, yes, but to say that success has followed from them pursuing this strategy is inventing causation. Dozens upon dozens of rucks have come and go in the last few decades. Not every club can rely on this happening for them, and it's ridiculous to suggest that any would rest on this expectation as a recruiting strategy.

Again
Lycett Vardy- traded
Nank - Traded
Roughead
McEvoy Hale- Traded
Pyke- Cat B
Ottens- Traded
Jolly- Traded
Cox
Jolly - Traded

That's all the way back to 2005 and Sydney. Where is the 'isolated but prominent'

Starting rucks in the AFL this year that were traded

Jacobs
Martin
Smith
McEvoy
Ryder
Nankervis
Sinclair
Longer
Vardy ( Lycett also traded)

9 of the 18.
Evidence

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Again
Lycett Vardy- traded
Nank - Traded
Roughead
McEvoy Hale- Traded
Pyke- Cat B
Ottens- Traded
Jolly- Traded
Cox
Jolly - Traded

That's all the way back to 2005 and Sydney. Where is the 'isolated but prominent'

Starting rucks in the AFL this year that were traded

Jacobs
Martin
Smith
McEvoy
Ryder
Nankervis
Sinclair
Longer
Vardy ( Lycett also traded)

9 of the 18.
Evidence

So basically there's a 50% chance that you can get your ruckman by trading them in, and a 50% chance that you develop them yourself. Given those are the only two ways to recruit players it's basically par for the course, yes. I don't understand what recruiting masterstroke you've seemingly discovered.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Also Vardy is literally WCE's third choice ruckman, but sure I'll let you have him. Jacobs, Longer, and Ryder were all pretty fortunate coups for their respective new clubs, either go-home or get-out-of-a-drug-scandal related. Sinclar and Martin effectively squeezed out. Not exactly things you'd rely on as an interested club.

 

[Topkent]

So basically there's a 50% chance that you can get your ruckman by trading them in, and a 50% chance that you develop them yourself. Given those are the only two ways to recruit players it's basically par for the course, yes. I don't understand what recruiting masterstroke you've seemingly discovered.

I can tell you don't understand

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I can tell you don't understand

You'll have to forgive me, I can only dream of ascending to your level of understanding

 

[Topkent]

Also Vardy is literally WCE's third choice ruckman, but sure I'll let you have him. Jacobs, Longer, and Ryder were all pretty fortunate coups for their respective new clubs, either go-home or get-out-of-a-drug-scandal related. Sinclar and Martin effectively squeezed out. Not exactly things you'd rely on as an interested club.

I actually forgot Witts and the GWS bloke from Geelong so 11 out of 18
Natanui, Grundy, Kreuzer were top 20 picks

So exactly what I ****ing said. Unless they are elite talents as a ruck you are wasting your time drafting them.
Only 4 of the 18 clubs had rucks taken above 20.

Suspect Gawn could have gone higher if not for an ACL pre draft.

 

[Topkent]

You'll have to forgive me, I can only dream of ascending to your level of understanding

Thanks tul... I mean G2B.

 

[schmuttt]

Not going to lie nothing better than watching topkent argue.

Can just imagine in some clients garden in Canada

'Boss what do you want us to do you've been on your phone for 20 minutes'
'hold on guys this snowflake is telling me ya rucks don't have to be traded let me deal with this campaigner'
'Did you just call someone a campaigner?'

 

[Topkent]

Those campaigners know that I've got shit to do in the mornings. I delayed 3 different companies operations to watch the Melbourne Hawthorn semi final and told them if we lost by a point I was calling some of my looser mates and cracking a case instead.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Not going to lie nothing better than watching topkent argue.

Can just imagine in some clients garden in Canada

'Boss what do you want us to do you've been on your phone for 20 minutes'
'hold on guys this snowflake is telling me ya rucks don't have to be traded let me deal with this campaigner'
'Did you just call someone a campaigner?'

This is one of the funniest things I’ve read on this board

Those campaigners know that I've got shit to do in the mornings. I delayed 3 different companies operations to watch the Melbourne Hawthorn semi final and told them if we lost by a point I was calling some of my looser mates and cracking a case instead.

Is it bad that my MFC self-loathing is so great I thought that said ‘loser mates’ and it made sense?

 

[LeverPuller]

Longer is shit

 

[Ando727]

Premiership rucks of the last 10 premiers
Lycett and Vardy
Nankervis
Roughead
McEvoy/Hale x3
Pike
Ottens x2
Jolly

All were traded in, none were especially expensive and the ones that were were traded immediately into the side thus avoiding wasted development years.

I'm confused how you are trying to argue against this

Still not necessarily a waste to develop a ruck. There's always a chance it works out and you keep him, but even if you don't keep him, you will probably get something for him in a trade situation - maybe another player you need. And there's nothing stopping you from picking up a ruckman too. If nobody was developing rucks at AFL level, there wouldn't be any to pick from - they'd all be state league rookies. I think all clubs are trying to develop ruck stock to some degree - some more than others, but if you don't, you have to pay something to get one in. They are still valuable currency. It's worth keeping your hand in the game in terms of ruck coaching and development because if you don't, you won't have the expertise to develop a Grundy, Gawn etc when they come along.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Given that we've developed our last few ruckmen and they've almost all been AA standard, I think we're doing fine.

 

[TheCount]

The 10 Pick 10's since 2015 (After their draftee contract expires)
'15 - Harry McKay
'14 - Nakia Cockatoo
'13 - Nathan Freeman (Traded then Delisted)
'12 - Joe Daniher (Father/Son - would have been much higher)
'11 - Liam Sumner (Traded then Delisted)
'10 - Daniel Gorringe (Traded then Delisted)
'09 - Jake Melksham (Traded then Knighted)
'08 - Phil Davis (Traded - technically speaking)
'07 - Patrick Dangerfield (Traded)
'06 - Nathan Brown (Traded)

No point picking a player at Pick 10 ...

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

The 10 Pick 10's since 2015 (After their draftee contract expires)
'15 - Harry McKay
'14 - Nakia Cockatoo
'13 - Nathan Freeman (Traded then Delisted)
'12 - Joe Daniher (Father/Son - would have been much higher)
'11 - Liam Sumner (Traded then Delisted)
'10 - Daniel Gorringe (Traded then Delisted)
'09 - Jake Melksham (Traded then Knighted)
'08 - Phil Davis (Traded - technically speaking)
'07 - Patrick Dangerfield (Traded)
'06 - Nathan Brown (Traded)

No point picking a player at Pick 10 ...

we should pick up Daniel gorringe, recruiting rucks that have been developed by other clubs is the best way to go IMO

 

[LeverPuller]

we should pick up Daniel gorringe, recruiting rucks that have been developed by other clubs is the best way to go IMO

West Coast just picked up Hickey for goodness’ sake

 

[Topkent]

we should pick up Daniel gorringe, recruiting rucks that have been developed by other clubs is the best way to go IMO

We just got Preuss for a depth player after wasting list spots on king an Filipovic for 5 years combined or whatever

 

[Topkent]

Given that we've developed our last few ruckmen and they've almost all been AA standard, I think we're doing fine.

Like who?
White- Traded.
Simmonds- Traded
Jolly- Traded
Jamar- Rookie
Martin- Traded
Gawn
Spencer- shit
Preuss- Traded

 

[Topkent]

The 10 Pick 10's since 2015 (After their draftee contract expires)
'15 - Harry McKay
'14 - Nakia Cockatoo
'13 - Nathan Freeman (Traded then Delisted)
'12 - Joe Daniher (Father/Son - would have been much higher)
'11 - Liam Sumner (Traded then Delisted)
'10 - Daniel Gorringe (Traded then Delisted)
'09 - Jake Melksham (Traded then Knighted)
'08 - Phil Davis (Traded - technically speaking)
'07 - Patrick Dangerfield (Traded)
'06 - Nathan Brown (Traded)

No point picking a player at Pick 10 ...

All that proves is draft picks in general overrated which I agree with.

 

[Tulip]

Like who?
White- Traded.
Simmonds- Traded
Jolly- Traded
Jamar- Rookie
Martin- Traded
Gawn
Spencer- shit
Preuss- Traded

Traded in and traded out are different though. Only reason we traded Jolly and Simmons out was lack of opportunity, because we had so many other good rucks.

 

[TheCount]

All that proves is draft picks in general overrated which I agree with.

I wasn’t entering into either side of the argument to be honest, just felt like making a list