Resource Beyond the "66 Game" Rebuild

[thylacine60]

66 Game Rebuild Overview ​

View attachment 588377

This thread started three years ago. I've covered this before but it's worth returning to to remember where we came from. We had 26 players under the age of 23 at the start of the 2016 season. We had finally committed to a full-blooded rebuild. Lachie Henderson, Tom Bell, Troy Menzel and Chris Yarran had just been traded out of the club, signifying a sharp end to the club's doldrum years of 2011-2014. Throughout that period the club had a spattering of potential, Lachie Henderson had genuine A-Grade games, Chris Yarran took games by the scruff of the neck and we had a solid list of AFL tryers like Tom Bell, Andrew Carrazzo and Mitch Robinson. The club's actions this off-season signified a commitment to pursuing something bigger. While enjoyable, our 2013 victory over Richmond got us nowhere, we were a mid-tier club without the quality to push for a flag. This transition is no more perfectly symbolized than in the retirement of Chris Judd. With the great-ones retirement, the Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Judd "Chosen-Ones" era had ended. An unfortunate failure, the years with Chris Judd as our champion ultimately came up short, due in large to the consistent failures of drafting across the years - especially across the later rounds. The players delisted at the end of the 2015 season are a testament to that, Blaine Johnson, Nick Holman, Tom Fields, Matthew Watson, Brad Walsh, are names that never found success at Carlton. The factors of this failure area undoubtedly dual, with our obvious inability to develop players coupled with poor drafting generally. This off-season was unequivocally the end of those doldrum years, the start of our rebuild and the beginning of our journey.

The Rebuild really began this off-season both off-field and on-field. The off-field stuff is best left out of this rebuild, so we will focus on the on-field additions. It was this off-season that we added Jacob Weitering, Charlie Curnow, David Cuningham, and Harry McKay, as well as Lachie Plowman through trade, who would become the core of our current spine. We would add to these additions over the years through trades and the draft, eventually adding Marchbank, Petrevski-Seton, Matthew Kennedy, Zac Fisher, Will Setterfield, Mitch McGovern and a host of other young quality talent. But we didn't have this talent in Round 1 2016, at that point in time our Youth included such quality names as Viojo-Rainbow, Clem Smith, Gallucci, Sumner, Jaksch and Foster. These players don't represent the talent we have now and this was evident in the Round 1 squad. We had only eight of our then 24 youth in that squad with Docherty, Cripps, Buckley, Graham, Kerridge, Boekhurst, Lamb and Weitering playing Round 1 against the Tigers.

That Round 1 team averaged 131.5 AFL Player Rating Points. Across that first round that figure climbed towards 200 by the end of the season. But this figure was bolstered by the low number of kids we were playing, averaging only 9 youth over the final four rounds. Across the time since that 22nd game, we have made huge strides. Our average youth numbers shot up in the second season and would continue to climb towards the 66th game. By the 66th game we were averaging 15 players per game. As a result of this substantial number of youth, our Average Player Rating didn't climb as fast as expected. But regardless of this point, it's clear to all that we have made substantial gains. Unlike that 2015 team, we have a substantial core of quality players, the latest additions of Walsh, Stocker, McGovern and Setterfield have only contributed to that.

Please review the graph below and consider where we are going as a club, this thread will continue next season with further analysis of our best 22.

quality - much appreciated, fbi

 

[Juddernaut08]

66 Game Rebuild Overview ​

View attachment 588377

This thread started three years ago. I've covered this before but it's worth returning to to remember where we came from. We had 26 players under the age of 23 at the start of the 2016 season. We had finally committed to a full-blooded rebuild. Lachie Henderson, Tom Bell, Troy Menzel and Chris Yarran had just been traded out of the club, signifying a sharp end to the club's doldrum years of 2011-2014. Throughout that period the club had a spattering of potential, Lachie Henderson had genuine A-Grade games, Chris Yarran took games by the scruff of the neck and we had a solid list of AFL tryers like Tom Bell, Andrew Carrazzo and Mitch Robinson. The club's actions this off-season signified a commitment to pursuing something bigger. While enjoyable, our 2013 victory over Richmond got us nowhere, we were a mid-tier club without the quality to push for a flag. This transition is no more perfectly symbolized than in the retirement of Chris Judd. With the great-ones retirement, the Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Judd "Chosen-Ones" era had ended. An unfortunate failure, the years with Chris Judd as our champion ultimately came up short, due in large to the consistent failures of drafting across the years - especially across the later rounds. The players delisted at the end of the 2015 season are a testament to that, Blaine Johnson, Nick Holman, Tom Fields, Matthew Watson, Brad Walsh, are names that never found success at Carlton. The factors of this failure area undoubtedly dual, with our obvious inability to develop players coupled with poor drafting generally. This off-season was unequivocally the end of those doldrum years, the start of our rebuild and the beginning of our journey.

The Rebuild really began this off-season both off-field and on-field. The off-field stuff is best left out of this rebuild, so we will focus on the on-field additions. It was this off-season that we added Jacob Weitering, Charlie Curnow, David Cuningham, and Harry McKay, as well as Lachie Plowman through trade, who would become the core of our current spine. We would add to these additions over the years through trades and the draft, eventually adding Marchbank, Petrevski-Seton, Matthew Kennedy, Zac Fisher, Will Setterfield, Mitch McGovern and a host of other young quality talent. But we didn't have this talent in Round 1 2016, at that point in time our Youth included such quality names as Viojo-Rainbow, Clem Smith, Gallucci, Sumner, Jaksch and Foster. These players don't represent the talent we have now and this was evident in the Round 1 squad. We had only eight of our then 24 youth in that squad with Docherty, Cripps, Buckley, Graham, Kerridge, Boekhurst, Lamb and Weitering playing Round 1 against the Tigers.

That Round 1 team averaged 131.5 AFL Player Rating Points. Across that first round that figure climbed towards 200 by the end of the season. But this figure was bolstered by the low number of kids we were playing, averaging only 9 youth over the final four rounds. Across the time since that 22nd game, we have made huge strides. Our average youth numbers shot up in the second season and would continue to climb towards the 66th game. By the 66th game we were averaging 15 players per game. As a result of this substantial number of youth, our Average Player Rating didn't climb as fast as expected. But regardless of this point, it's clear to all that we have made substantial gains. Unlike that 2015 team, we have a substantial core of quality players, the latest additions of Walsh, Stocker, McGovern and Setterfield have only contributed to that.

Please review the graph below and consider where we are going as a club, this thread will continue next season with further analysis of our best 22.

This is ******* amazing FB.

Seriously if you had the resources of say Champion Data I have no doubt you could run this analysis for many 3-5 year periods and accurately "predict" the performance of teams exiting rebuild phases...and how to optimise a rebuild (aka how much experience to trade out...and when is the best time to bring in the superstar or two).

Well done.

 

[Aphrodite]

Fabulous work FlowersByIrene

Many thanks.

 

[Heres Waite]

Yeah, the rebuild was completed on Friday. That’s not to say there won’t be more adjustments to the list, but we are rebuilt. On to Phase 2.

I’ve been seeing this Phase 2 a fair bit. Does anyone know what it means? I know we initially laid out a 66 game “reset” and in that time, we have completely transformed our playing list. Has any of the coaches or directors suggested what this Phase 2 now entails?

 

[Jabba73]

I’ve been seeing this Phase 2 a fair bit. Does anyone know what it means? I know we initially laid out a 66 game “reset” and in that time, we have completely transformed our playing list. Has any of the coaches or directors suggested what this Phase 2 now entails?

Phase one was about rebuilding the list to get a profile of young players and some depth in all positions.

Phase two will be about performance improvement to rise up the ladder and have a playing style and ability to make, then win, finals.

Phase three will be maintaining solid output to reduce the gap between our best and worst to drive sustained success. We want to be at the top for a long time.

Phase four will be successfully transitioning from the current list and coaching group to the next dynasty.

Note: this is my guesswork, nothing official from the club.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Phase one was about rebuilding the list to get a profile of young players and some depth in all positions.

Phase two will be about performance improvement to rise up the ladder and have a playing style and ability to make, then win, finals.

Phase three will be maintaining solid output to reduce the gap between our best and worst to drive sustained success. We want to be at the top for a long time.

Phase four will be successfully transitioning from the current list and coaching group to the next dynasty.

Note: this is my guesswork, nothing official from the club.

Mr Hut, im in agreeance.

1) get the list
2) train the list
3) win with the list

I hope we now have the pieces in place to start learning and implementing a winning gameplan. The learning could take a bit of time but we should at least see the reasoning behind what is being taught.

 

[CJMB]

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gobaggers2]

Phase one was about rebuilding the list to get a profile of young players and some depth in all positions.

Phase two will be about performance improvement to rise up the ladder and have a playing style and ability to make, then win, finals.

Phase three will be maintaining solid output to reduce the gap between our best and worst to drive sustained success. We want to be at the top for a long time.

Phase four will be successfully transitioning from the current list and coaching group to the next dynasty.

Note: this is my guesswork, nothing official from the club.

Lets hope we’re in phase 3 by end of 2019. Wishful thinking you say?



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jabba73]

Lets hope we’re in phase 3 by end of 2019. Wishful thinking you say?



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Probably switching to that midway through 2020. Need to be convinced we can get it done, then work on doing it consistently.

 

[Jeremias]

Good to see this thread back up and running. Have enjoyed reading and contributing over the past few years, and look forward to that continuing in 2019.

The '66 game rebuild' is now behind us, and whilst some will point to us being down the bottom as a failure of the rebuild, I don't see it that way & remain as confident as ever we are on the right track.

We are still very much in the middle of this rebuild, and it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun tracking this in 2019 and beyond.

At this stage it's probably worth defining the 'youth' we have on the list, and given we dropped 1992 births off the list at the start of last year, now is the time to remove those born in 1993.

So we say goodbye to Doc, as well as those who have departed the club since the end of the season - Kerridge, Byrne, Graham, JGM and McDaid.

On the plus side we say hello to those we brought in via the trade and draft periods -

1) Mitch McGovern
2) Will Setterfield
3) Matt Owies
4) Sam Walsh
5) Liam Stocker
6) Finbar O'Dwyer
7) Ben Silvagni
8) Hugh Goddard

Which means our youth for season 2019 is as follows:

1994 - Plowman, McGovern
1995 - Cripps, Lang
1996 - Marchbank, Pickett, Garlett, Goddard
1997 - Weitering, C Curnow, Kennedy, J Silvagni, Cuningham, McKay, Owies
1998 - Petrevski-Seton, Williamson, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, Lebois, Setterfield
1999 - Dow, O'Brien, De Koning, Schumacher
2000 - Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, B Silvagni

All up we'll have a total of 31 players to track in 2019 - will be an exciting year for sure.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Good to see this thread back up and running. Have enjoyed reading and contributing over the past few years, and look forward to that continuing in 2019.

The '66 game rebuild' is now behind us, and whilst some will point to us being down the bottom as a failure of the rebuild, I don't see it that way & remain as confident as ever we are on the right track.

We are still very much in the middle of this rebuild, and it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun tracking this in 2019 and beyond.

At this stage it's probably worth defining the 'youth' we have on the list, and given we dropped 1992 births off the list at the start of last year, now is the time to remove those born in 1993.

So we say goodbye to Doc, as well as those who have departed the club since the end of the season - Kerridge, Byrne, Graham, JGM and McDaid.

On the plus side we say hello to those we brought in via the trade and draft periods -

1) Mitch McGovern
2) Will Setterfield
3) Matt Owies
4) Sam Walsh
5) Liam Stocker
6) Finbar O'Dwyer
7) Ben Silvagni
8) Hugh Goddard

Which means our youth for season 2019 is as follows:

1994 - Plowman, McGovern
1995 - Cripps, Lang
1996 - Marchbank, Pickett, Garlett, Goddard
1997 - Weitering, C Curnow, Kennedy, J Silvagni, Cuningham, McKay, Owies
1998 - Petrevski-Seton, Williamson, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, Lebois, Setterfield
1999 - Dow, O'Brien, De Koning, Schumacher
2000 - Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, B Silvagni

All up we'll have a total of 31 players to track in 2019 - will be an exciting year for sure.

Thanks for that Jeremias, glad you'll be conitnuing in this thread, I appreciate the additional support.

For the purposes of the statisitics I have been keeping, I will not be dropping anyone off the list and therefore, anyone who was under the Age of 23 at the start of the 2016 season will remain (I have to check if Fasolo scrapes in). My justification for doing this is that this thread has been tracking the rebuild of the Carlton football club and to target/project where the club will be when we are competiting for a flag in the coming years. The reasoning behind the initial 23 and under was that it would take us a number of years to return to being competitive and therefore likely only those under the Age of 23 (at that time) will be with the club when we are pushing for a flag. As players like Docherty will still be with us when we are competing for a flag, they continue to count as "youth" for this thread. Additionally, as we push towards better performances, the number of actual kids we have will be less relevant. From now onwards, it is not as much about "playing the kids" as it is winning games of Football. For example, you would never drop Docherty for Schumacher at this stage just to get more games into the younger Shcumacher (although someone older like Thomas, who was not 23 at the start of the 2016 seaosn may find himself in that situation towards the end of the year). The Blues should be focussing on building its best 22 around those core players ranging from Docherty's age down to Walsh and my statisitics and graphs will continue to monitor that core group of players moving forward as they transition from prospective kids, to elite contributors.

But that's just for my purposes though. Feel free to use any metric you would like.

 

[Juddernaut08]

The ruck situation is interesting too since there have been a few comments that TDK is a forward + pinch-hitting ruck rather than the other way round.

I say the heart issue aside, Kreuzer has 4 years left...ruckmen play a bit longer.

 

[CJMB]

Good to see this thread back up and running. Have enjoyed reading and contributing over the past few years, and look forward to that continuing in 2019.

The '66 game rebuild' is now behind us, and whilst some will point to us being down the bottom as a failure of the rebuild, I don't see it that way & remain as confident as ever we are on the right track.

We are still very much in the middle of this rebuild, and it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun tracking this in 2019 and beyond.

At this stage it's probably worth defining the 'youth' we have on the list, and given we dropped 1992 births off the list at the start of last year, now is the time to remove those born in 1993.

So we say goodbye to Doc, as well as those who have departed the club since the end of the season - Kerridge, Byrne, Graham, JGM and McDaid.

On the plus side we say hello to those we brought in via the trade and draft periods -

1) Mitch McGovern
2) Will Setterfield
3) Matt Owies
4) Sam Walsh
5) Liam Stocker
6) Finbar O'Dwyer
7) Ben Silvagni
8) Hugh Goddard

Which means our youth for season 2019 is as follows:

1994 - Plowman, McGovern
1995 - Cripps, Lang
1996 - Marchbank, Pickett, Garlett, Goddard
1997 - Weitering, C Curnow, Kennedy, J Silvagni, Cuningham, McKay, Owies
1998 - Petrevski-Seton, Williamson, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, Lebois, Setterfield
1999 - Dow, O'Brien, De Koning, Schumacher
2000 - Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, B Silvagni

All up we'll have a total of 31 players to track in 2019 - will be an exciting year for sure.

Thanks for that Jeremias, glad you'll be conitnuing in this thread, I appreciate the additional support.

For the purposes of the statisitics I have been keeping, I will not be dropping anyone off the list and therefore, anyone who was under the Age of 23 at the start of the 2016 season will remain (I have to check if Fasolo scrapes in). My justification for doing this is that this thread has been tracking the rebuild of the Carlton football club and to target/project where the club will be when we are competiting for a flag in the coming years. The reasoning behind the initial 23 and under was that it would take us a number of years to return to being competitive and therefore likely only those under the Age of 23 (at that time) will be with the club when we are pushing for a flag. As players like Docherty will still be with us when we are competing for a flag, they continue to count as "youth" for this thread. Additionally, as we push towards better performances, the number of actual kids we have will be less relevant. From now onwards, it is not as much about "playing the kids" as it is winning games of Football. For example, you would never drop Docherty for Schumacher at this stage just to get more games into the younger Shcumacher (although someone older like Thomas, who was not 23 at the start of the 2016 seaosn may find himself in that situation towards the end of the year). The Blues should be focussing on building its best 22 around those core players ranging from Docherty's age down to Walsh and my statisitics and graphs will continue to monitor that core group of players moving forward as they transition from prospective kids, to elite contributors.

But that's just for my purposes though. Feel free to use any metric you would like.

I like the cutoff being pre-93/2011 draft (or equivalent) and floating, rather than excluding him now that he's hit 25. Yes, the 'youth' definition gets a bit muddy, but for mine it's more about the 'list within a list' coming through with the rebuild rather than purely looking at those in with sub-7 years experience.

Taking that into account, Fasolo misses out, but we've got a another couple of additions not really mentioned yet.

2011: Docherty, Bugg (GWS underage selection), Newman (2015 rookie draft)
2012: Plowman, McGovern (2014 draft)
2013: Cripps, Lang
2014: Pickett, Marchbank, Garlett, Goddard
2015: Curnow, Weitering, McKay, Kennedy, Cuningham, Silvagni, Owies (2018 rookie draft)
2016: Setterfield, Petrevski-Seton, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Williamson, Kerr, LeBois
2017: Dow, O'Brien, De Koning, Schumacher
2018: Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, Silvagni

Incredibly that's 34 players... the remaining names being Simpson, Thomas, Murphy, Lobbe, Kreuzer, Curnow, Casboult, Jones, Phillips & Fasolo (in order of age).

Going to be interesting to watch these graphs track for the 2019 season, especially as more of our young guns approach the 40 game mark for the purpose of AFL player ratings.

 

[thylacine60]

Good to see this thread back up and running. Have enjoyed reading and contributing over the past few years, and look forward to that continuing in 2019.

The '66 game rebuild' is now behind us, and whilst some will point to us being down the bottom as a failure of the rebuild, I don't see it that way & remain as confident as ever we are on the right track.

We are still very much in the middle of this rebuild, and it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun tracking this in 2019 and beyond.

At this stage it's probably worth defining the 'youth' we have on the list, and given we dropped 1992 births off the list at the start of last year, now is the time to remove those born in 1993.

So we say goodbye to Doc, as well as those who have departed the club since the end of the season - Kerridge, Byrne, Graham, JGM and McDaid.

On the plus side we say hello to those we brought in via the trade and draft periods -

1) Mitch McGovern
2) Will Setterfield
3) Matt Owies
4) Sam Walsh
5) Liam Stocker
6) Finbar O'Dwyer
7) Ben Silvagni
8) Hugh Goddard

Which means our youth for season 2019 is as follows:

1994 - Plowman, McGovern
1995 - Cripps, Lang
1996 - Marchbank, Pickett, Garlett, Goddard
1997 - Weitering, C Curnow, Kennedy, J Silvagni, Cuningham, McKay, Owies
1998 - Petrevski-Seton, Williamson, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, Lebois, Setterfield
1999 - Dow, O'Brien, De Koning, Schumacher
2000 - Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, B Silvagni

All up we'll have a total of 31 players to track in 2019 - will be an exciting year for sure.

no hello newman, j?

 

[Jeremias]

no hello newman, j?

Born in 1993, same as Doc.

 

[thylacine60]

bit ageist........

 

[Arr0w]

Good to see this thread back up and running. Have enjoyed reading and contributing over the past few years, and look forward to that continuing in 2019.

The '66 game rebuild' is now behind us, and whilst some will point to us being down the bottom as a failure of the rebuild, I don't see it that way & remain as confident as ever we are on the right track.

We are still very much in the middle of this rebuild, and it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun tracking this in 2019 and beyond.

At this stage it's probably worth defining the 'youth' we have on the list, and given we dropped 1992 births off the list at the start of last year, now is the time to remove those born in 1993.

So we say goodbye to Doc, as well as those who have departed the club since the end of the season - Kerridge, Byrne, Graham, JGM and McDaid.

On the plus side we say hello to those we brought in via the trade and draft periods -

1) Mitch McGovern
2) Will Setterfield
3) Matt Owies
4) Sam Walsh
5) Liam Stocker
6) Finbar O'Dwyer
7) Ben Silvagni
8) Hugh Goddard

Which means our youth for season 2019 is as follows:

1994 - Plowman, McGovern
1995 - Cripps, Lang
1996 - Marchbank, Pickett, Garlett, Goddard
1997 - Weitering, C Curnow, Kennedy, J Silvagni, Cuningham, McKay, Owies
1998 - Petrevski-Seton, Williamson, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, Lebois, Setterfield
1999 - Dow, O'Brien, De Koning, Schumacher
2000 - Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, B Silvagni

All up we'll have a total of 31 players to track in 2019 - will be an exciting year for sure.

Still tracking 31 players, exciting

Angus Schumacher
Ben Silvagni
Caleb Marchbank
Cameron Polson
Charlie Curnow
Darcy Lang
David Cuningham
Finbar O'Dwyer
Harrison Macreadie
Harry McKay
Hugh Goddard
Jack Silvagni
Jacob Weitering
Jarrod Garlett
Jarrod Pickett
Kym Lebois
Lachie Plowman
Liam Stocker
Lochie O'Brien
Matthew Kennedy
Matthew Owies
Mitch McGovern
Paddy Dow
Pat Kerr
Patrick Cripps
Sam Petrevski-Seton
Sam Walsh
Tom De Koning
Tom Williamson
Will Setterfield
Zac Fisher

 

[HARKER]

Yeah, the rebuild was completed on Friday. That’s not to say there won’t be more adjustments to the list, but we are rebuilt. On to Phase 2.

Do you think so? Running backs & Crumbing goal-kicking forwards seem to be missing and our midfield is still young and not fully formed.

There is no one right way to go about things, but I still see a clear lack of goal-kicking power, for now at least.

 

[JustaBattler]

I think the Club has plenty of options across every line - up to the players to compete and cement their spots now.

 

[Stamos]

Do you think so? Running backs & Crumbing goal-kicking forwards seem to be missing and our midfield is still young and not fully formed.

There is no one right way to go about things, but I still see a clear lack of goal-kicking power, for now at least.

Yeah, I do. We may need some tweaks (every list changes every year), but the rebuild is done.
We've got plenty of players to run from defence.

We could probably do with a better option of a crumbing forward, but I don't see that as a necessary part of completing the rebuild. Let's see how the goal kicking power improves with a fit and functioning 22.

 

[Jeremias]

For the purposes of the statisitics I have been keeping, I will not be dropping anyone off the list and therefore, anyone who was under the Age of 23 at the start of the 2016 season will remain.

That's fine and am happy to adjust my numbers accordingly.

I just don't see a 25 year old as 'youth' hence the cut-off, which we had in place for 2018.

Agree though that he should be included for anything in the discussion of building a list, as he was a member of the original youth at the start of this rebuild.

I like the cutoff being pre-93/2011 draft (or equivalent) and floating, rather than excluding him now that he's hit 25. Yes, the 'youth' definition gets a bit muddy, but for mine it's more about the 'list within a list' coming through with the rebuild rather than purely looking at those in with sub-7 years experience.

As above. The 'youth' definition certainly gets muddy and IMO there should be a cut-off.

If we change the definition I'd also have to go back and change the 'games into youth' figures, which I refer to throughout the year, and I can't really be bothered doing that.

bit ageist........

I interact with you, and you're not exactly young, which should debunk that theory...

Still tracking 31 players, exciting

Angus Schumacher
Ben Silvagni
Caleb Marchbank
Cameron Polson
Charlie Curnow
Darcy Lang
David Cuningham
Finbar O'Dwyer
Harrison Macreadie
Harry McKay
Hugh Goddard
Jack Silvagni
Jacob Weitering
Jarrod Garlett
Jarrod Pickett
Kym Lebois
Lachie Plowman
Liam Stocker
Lochie O'Brien
Matthew Kennedy
Matthew Owies
Mitch McGovern
Paddy Dow
Pat Kerr
Patrick Cripps
Sam Petrevski-Seton
Sam Walsh
Tom De Koning
Tom Williamson
Will Setterfield
Zac Fisher

31 now unless I change the metric.

Regardless, certainly very exciting, and a huge change from where we were at a few years back.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Do you think so? Running backs & Crumbing goal-kicking forwards seem to be missing and our midfield is still young and not fully formed.

There is no one right way to go about things, but I still see a clear lack of goal-kicking power, for now at least.

Those types aren't missing, Harks, they're just represented by players with question marks.

Not sure how you could possibly see a lack of goalkicking power with the new look forward line.
- Harry, Charlie and Mitch is as dangerous a trio of talls as you could probably hope to assemble.
- Fasolo is better than a goal-a-game if he can get on the park.
- Bugg is a handy small pressure forward with goal sense, while Polson is a defensive small with scope for improvement.
- Lebois has tricks, apparently?
- Rotate Fisher, SPS, Murphy, Dow, LOB, Garlett, Pickett, Thomas, Lang through the small forward positions (dependent on which make the 22).
- Rotate Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield, Kreuzer through the tall forward positions for the odd goal.
- Kerr, JSOS and TDK looking alright in the background, BSOS and Finbar who knows.

An Eddie Betts or Cyril Rioli would be wonderful, but those players stand out because they're so rare.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

That's fine and am happy to adjust my numbers accordingly.

I just don't see a 25 year old as 'youth' hence the cut-off, which we had in place for 2018.

Agree though that he should be included for anything in the discussion of building a list, as he was a member of the original youth at the start of this rebuild.



As above. The 'youth' definition certainly gets muddy and IMO there should be a cut-off.

If we change the definition I'd also have to go back and change the 'games into youth' figures, which I refer to throughout the year, and I can't really be bothered doing that.



I interact with you, and you're not exactly young, which should debunk that theory...



31 now unless I change the metric.

Regardless, certainly very exciting, and a huge change from where we were at a few years back.

I don't want you to have to go back or anythign Keremias, so I think you just proceed on your basis. I just wanted to outline how my stats will show.

 

[Arr0w]

FlowersByIrene Jeremias would be great if the age brackets could mirror one another.

Happy to help make it easier to extract the information for you both, if it is too labour intensive

 

[F_therest]

I like the cutoff being pre-93/2011 draft (or equivalent) and floating, rather than excluding him now that he's hit 25. Yes, the 'youth' definition gets a bit muddy, but for mine it's more about the 'list within a list' coming through with the rebuild rather than purely looking at those in with sub-7 years experience.

Taking that into account, Fasolo misses out, but we've got a another couple of additions not really mentioned yet.

2011: Docherty, Bugg (GWS underage selection), Newman (2015 rookie draft)
2012: Plowman, McGovern (2014 draft)
2013: Cripps, Lang
2014: Pickett, Marchbank, Garlett, Goddard
2015: Curnow, Weitering, McKay, Kennedy, Cuningham, Silvagni, Owies (2018 rookie draft)
2016: Setterfield, Petrevski-Seton, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Williamson, Kerr, LeBois
2017: Dow, O'Brien, De Koning, Schumacher
2018: Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, Silvagni

Incredibly that's 34 players... the remaining names being Simpson, Thomas, Murphy, Lobbe, Kreuzer, Curnow, Casboult, Jones, Phillips & Fasolo (in order of age).

Going to be interesting to watch these graphs track for the 2019 season, especially as more of our young guns approach the 40 game mark for the purpose of AFL player ratings.

The sad thing is, realistically we'll have done well to get out of the bottom 5. If our kids show good signs and we finish 12th in 2019, i'd consider that a decent season with a goal of top 8 in 2020.

If our oldies were even 2 years younger, and our kids since 2015 were 2 years older, we'd probably be in top 4 contention.

List management and age profiles do matter. Sadly something our previous regime had no idea about.