What can we expect from the new Shorten government

[Taylor]

Umm...ok, then

This is how elections work now. I'd be disappointed if independents aren't running on a platform of buying the electorate new things because the parliament is going to be minority lead.

It's the nature of the beast that the votes of 100,000 people in regional Queensland will have more power than 5,000,000 others in NSW.

 

[Kwality]

Government by committee is a necessary evil when the extremes of left or right exercise control to suit their cause at the expense of the sensible middle.

I find it hard to vote for either extreme (the coming election) whilst acknowledging a vote for a minority is a vote for committee, for grubby horse trading at its base level.

 

[GreyCrow]

Stability

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Even Kevin07?

I'd suggest Kerryn Phelps has done more for the Libs election chances in weeks than the previous Wentworth member did in years.

Report from that former DoI official recently suggested the massive increase in people arriving by plane under this government and disappearing into the community present a far greater security threat that any boat arrivals.

The only time Australia's borders have been threatened to a serious degree was the first half of 1942. My god I love the way people talk tough and then proceed to willingly jump at every shadow.

 

[Taylor]

If, big if, recent migrant groups represent a disproportionately larger impact on crime statistics then we should be discriminating against them.

If, big if, recent migrant groups amount to a disproportionately larger number succeeding in education, employment, business growth and community work then we should be discriminating for them.

People bring their culture.

 

[Hawk Dork]

If, big if, recent migrant groups represent a disproportionately larger impact on crime statistics then we should be discriminating against them.

Kiwis ?

If, big if, recent migrant groups amount to a disproportionately larger number succeeding in education, employment, business growth and community work then we should be discriminating for them.

MMMM....That will go down well long term for social cohesion....not
Surely if they are winning they dont need further assistance ?

People bring their culture.

Convicts ?

 

[Taylor]

Kiwis ?

Do we have more New Zealand citizens living here than live in NZ yet?

MMMM....That will go down well long term for social cohesion....not
Surely if they are winning they dont need further assistance ?

Our immigration system already perfers those who have education, means and similar language and values. It's just tipping that further along, those who comes from nations with cultures of working hard that fit in well with Australian values to the front of the line.

Convicts ?

You're right, we shouldn't bring in any people with convictions - especially those who contravene Australian values - which is what makes it tricky if they come from somewhere that doesn't have Australian values, such as my opinion being worth half of yours so your word against mine means you get off. No record of that conviction.

It's almost like it's a complicated and individual system that will take time.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

If, big if, recent migrant groups represent a disproportionately larger impact on crime statistics then we should be discriminating against them.

If, big if, recent migrant groups amount to a disproportionately larger number succeeding in education, employment, business growth and community work then we should be discriminating for them.

People bring their culture.

Does that mean I can advertise an accounting job for only races I consider likely to be successful in this job?

 

[Taylor]

Does that mean I can advertise an accounting job for only races I consider likely to be successful in this job?

It means you favor the applications of those you believe will make better employees.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It means you favor the applications of those you believe will make better employees.

Based upon race?

 

[Kwality]

Report from that former DoI official recently suggested the massive increase in people arriving by plane under this government and disappearing into the community present a far greater security threat that any boat arrivals.

The only time Australia's borders have been threatened to a serious degree was the first half of 1942. My god I love the way people talk tough and then proceed to willingly jump at every shadow.

The difference is you need papers to get in by plane, YET those by boat have none.

Not sure IF you are advocating open borders ...

Call it any way you like but the blow ins aka boat people get better medical care than kids in the Kimberley & that is a disgrace that seems to be ignored by virtue signallers in Canberra. No credit to any one of them.

 

[Kwality]

Based upon race?

Surely you dont expect English expression?

 

[Taylor]

Based upon race?

It would be based upon the cultural features you believed were more suitable to your business.

You're perfectly free to hire a man from a culture who doesn't value women to work in your bikini waxing company but it might impact your bottom line.

I would prefer you interview someone before passing a judgement but putting those you expect to be more suitable at the top of your list to interview I don't think it a bad thing. It forms the basis of an argument for systemic racism, but it's also human nature.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It would be based upon the cultural features you believed were more suitable to your business.

You're perfectly free to hire a man from a culture who doesn't value women to work in your bikini waxing company but it might impact your bottom line.

I would prefer you interview someone before passing a judgement but putting those you expect to be more suitable at the top of your list to interview I don't think it a bad thing. It forms the basis of an argument for systemic racism, but it's also human nature.

So if Gough runs an ad saying his company is a traditional Australian values organisation, so applications from women, Jews, black people, brown people, and the Irish will not be considered as these people conflict with our internal culture, you would say "rock on"?

 

[Maggie5]

The difference is you need papers to get in by plane, YET those by boat have none.

None of them had papers? Do you have a link for this?

 

[Hawk Dork]

Do we have more New Zealand citizens living here than live in NZ yet?

They make up a large number of our prison population

Our immigration system already perfers those who have education, means and similar language and values. It's just tipping that further along, those who comes from nations with cultures of working hard that fit in well with Australian values to the front of the line.

Do people of Asian decent have the same values for human/animal life and freedoms and a fair go as our Australian values ,yet they do well academically and fit in peacefully mainly?
Obviously there is a bit of a Triad element too.
Im assuming French Italians,Greeks ,Slavs,Scandanavians,Swiss, and Germans dont have Australian values,Americans definitely dont

You're right, we shouldn't bring in any people with convictions - especially those who contravene Australian values - which is what makes it tricky if they come from somewhere that doesn't have Australian values, such as my opinion being worth half of yours so your word against mine means you get off. No record of that conviction.

It's almost like it's a complicated and individual system that will take time.

Im assuming this banning of convicts isnt retrospective.
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter and this can change without notice

 

[Taylor]

So if Gough runs an ad saying his company is a traditional Australian values organisation, so applications from women, Jews, black people, brown people, and the Irish will not be considered as these people conflict with our internal culture, you would say "rock on"?

He can do that, his business will suffer for it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

He can do that, his business will suffer for it.

But you are fine with him having a race/sex/religious based hiring policy?

 

[Taylor]

But you are fine with him having a race/sex/religious based hiring policy?

I'm of the opinion that having that policy or not doesn't actually impact the end result if the person making the decisions is basing their choice on race/sex/religious grounds alone anyway - so I'd prefer that bias was public knowledge so people who disagree with it can vote with their wallets. I think that's a freer market system.

Here's an example, in my local Target I have never seen an indigenous employee. Target calls itself an equal opportunity employer so my eyebrows are un-raised by this. If they actually had a private internal policy excluding indigenous people then I'd rather know about it so I can act accordingly and not spend money there.

All this from a discussion on the nation preferring people from cultures and values similar to Australians over those cultures and value systems that oppose our own for people moving here.

 

[NSWCROW]

Maturity

Something the current govt has NEVER had.




And the most galling part of that ?
They came in , smirks ******* PLASTERED across their faces saying " The adults are back in charge " then acted like ******* yr 8's for 5 years culminating with the biggest melt i've ever seen yesterday.

 

[Taylor]

They make up a large number of our prison population

September last year the prison population was 43,018.
Indigenous people in that number = 11,842 (28%)
NZ people in that number = 1,208 (2.8% - NZ population in Australia is 2.14% so a slight over-representation)

Do people of Asian decent have the same values for human/animal life and freedoms and a fair go as our Australian values ,yet they do well academically and fit in peacefully mainly?
Obviously there is a bit of a Triad element too.
Im assuming French Italians,Greeks ,Slavs,Scandanavians,Swiss, and Germans dont have Australian values,Americans definitely dont

Most western nations have similar values to Australia.

Im assuming this banning of convicts isnt retrospective.
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter and this can change without notice

The thing about those freedom fighters and terrorists is they usually have a fairly clear history of behavior we wouldn't want in Australia. We don't deal with issues violently, by and large. It's national news if someone is shot, it's national news if someone runs people over with a car.

 

[Taylor]

Maturity

Something the current govt has NEVER had.




And the most galling part of that ?
They came in , smirks ******* PLASTERED across their faces saying " The adults are back in charge " then acted like ******* yr 8's for 5 years culminating with the biggest melt i've ever seen yesterday.

Here's something that has been bouncing around my empty brain the last few days.

Is it better to show a facade of unity to get in the door, then change your leadership or to change it up front and risk not getting through the door?

What are your thoughts on this entirely hypothetical circumstance? This isn't a Dutton/Morrison or Shorten/Albanese question although I do have a bias to thinking the Shorten/Albanese situation could come up once the election is done.

Does it represent bad faith to have a false sense of unity?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm of the opinion that having that policy or not doesn't actually impact the end result if the person making the decisions is basing their choice on race/sex/religious grounds alone anyway - so I'd prefer that bias was public knowledge so people who disagree with it can vote with their wallets. I think that's a freer market system.

Here's an example, in my local Target I have never seen an indigenous employee. Target calls itself an equal opportunity employer so my eyebrows are un-raised by this. If they actually had a private internal policy excluding indigenous people then I'd rather know about it so I can act accordingly and not spend money there.

All this from a discussion on the nation preferring people from cultures and values similar to Australians over those cultures and value systems that oppose our own for people moving here.

This will take us to a segregated society very quickly

I'm genuinely surprised you support discrimination based upon race and religion

 

[Taylor]

This will take us to a segregated society very quickly

I'm genuinely surprised you support discrimination based upon race and religion

I think you've misunderstood me.

I support people being very open about their prejudices and biases. That is the only way to foster inclusive dialogue because currently our system pushes those opinions to the fringe and into dark corners where it turns into something else.

Pretending that a policy isn't impacted by a person making a choice is naive.

 

[NSWCROW]

Here's something that has been bouncing around my empty brain the last few days.

Is it better to show a facade of unity to get in the door, then change your leadership or to change it up front and risk not getting through the door?

What are your thoughts on this entirely hypothetical circumstance? This isn't a Dutton/Morrison or Shorten/Albanese question although I do have a bias to thinking the Shorten/Albanese situation could come up once the election is done.

Does it represent bad faith to have a false sense of unity?

It worked for the libs in 2013 so i can't see how it won't this time.

Major difference was the murdoch press wouldn't DARE * it up by focusing on the factional dramas in the libs , i can't promise that'll be the case IF labor win in may.

Time will tell i guess