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Review Bad, Ugly, and Horrendous vs Hawks

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I was lucky enough to travel to Adelaide on the weekend and just wanted to pass on how gracious every Crows fan I encountered on the way to the ground, during the match and walking back to my accommodation.

I went to the game by myself, wore hawks colours and sat in the middle of passionate Crows fans. I get involved in barracking during matches (never abusive) and enjoyed some fun banter with the crows fans who were polite throughout. Sat next to a little old lady who was a foundation crows member and enjoyed chatting to her about footy during the match.

Given the horrendous behaviour of some fans at other games this round just wanted to say what a great afternoon I had at the footy and commend the crows fans. As a code we should never take for granted that a travelling interstate fan can sit amongst opposition supporters and not only feel safe but welcomed.

Best of luck for the rest of the season.
I was going say (jokingly): "So, you went to the AFLW game on Sunday --- oh wait --- you're a Hawks supporter! ;)"
but it would have demeaned your gracious post.
Thank you.
I'm glad the Crows supporters treated you well, but your good-natured banter at the game and your post itself also say good things about you :thumbsu:. Cheers!
 
Adelaide did nothing but try to play 'their' way, as far as I could tell. They have no Plan 'B', and no changes of plans to counter other teams (proactively, before the game) that I can see. eg Moving Gibbs to defence was reactionary, caused by Doedeee's tragic ACL. I can't remember Pyke picking a side to trouble specific opposition characteristics, or tell the blokes to play other than the "Crows way'.
If there was any disruption to the Hawks' game plan it was of their own doing, to beat us --- which they did well.-

Totally no disrespect intended :). I'd like to know what you think Adelaide did to disrupt the Hawks usual game plan, which they did not employ, themselves.
It's hard to say, from watching the game on TV. You just don't get the big picture of what's happening a lot of the time - pretty much anything more than 5m from the ball is mostly invisible.

The commentators did point out at one stage that we were going man-on-man in our forward line. This would mean that they didn't have any players free, to receive the uncontested mark, something which is much more easily achieved against a zone defence.
 
A lot of people bang on about our list management being pretty great now.

I don't see it that way. We still lose players every year. The only positive is that we're now getting more draft picks in return for them than Noble used to get.

But fundamentally we are still going backwards. Holding onto unproductive senior players too long on extravagant contracts, losing our highly rated and developed youth just as they're about to peak and then getting draft picks in return to start from scratch again.
Our recruitment, particularly Ogilvy's drafting, is exceptional. Our trading has improved vastly since Noble's departure.

However, player retention and decision making about which players to keep/release remain as issues.
 
Our recruitment, particularly Ogilvy's drafting, is exceptional. Our trading has improved vastly since Noble's departure.

However, player retention and decision making about which players to keep/release remain as issues.

Now your banging on about list management being pretty good
 

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:o

Are we confident enough in our list and our game plan to handle a Round 1 loss?

Seems that all signs are pointing to victory; home game, fit squad, key players back, Hawks undermanned, less Brett Burton, no camp, more fun, 2018 behind us, new draftees look good, won both JLT games etc.

We weren't prepared for the possibility of a loss in the 2017 GF. We assumed that we'd win and were left reeling for 12 months before regathering ourselves.

I think we'll win and have things in place for a good season. But the Hawks are the Hawks. Their record speaks for itself and they've been something of a bogey team for us. They could pull off an upset. And if they do it won't mean that we can't have a good season.

We need to be robust enough to carry on without panicking or overreacting. Our confidence can't be so fragile that one loss causes doubts to creep in.

I remember Blight shrugging his shoulders after Round 1 results, good and bad. "Half the teams always win, half the teams always lose."
 
Our recruitment, particularly Ogilvy's drafting, is exceptional. Our trading has improved vastly since Noble's departure.

However, player retention and decision making about which players to keep/release remain as issues.
Our trading can't be said to have improved vastly. It has improved to somewhere around average.

To be better than that we need to be trading ready made players for ready made players.

Not draft credits.

You want my milkshake? Give me your milkshake. Don't give me money to go out and buy the ingredients to make another milkshake.
 
Our trading can't be said to have improved vastly. It has improved to somewhere around average.

To be better than that we need to be trading ready made players for ready made players.

Not draft credits.

You want my milkshake? Give me your milkshake. Don't give me money to go out and buy the ingredients to make another milkshake.
It's improved in the sense that we're no longer receiving 10c on the dollar when trading away players, and paying $3.50 to bring players in. These days we're close to breaking even.

Are we stealing players from other clubs, for ridiculously low prices? No. Are we doing massively better than we did under Noble? Hell, yes!
 
I think that might have been me. I don't know why I bothered posting in clear English, with the qualification that although the example I used was a Mackay kick, it wasn't a defence of / about Mackay, because it seems that even when you write clearly some people don't read clearly.

I blame Mackay. The mere mention of his name turns reading comprehension skills to mush, apparently.
jekyl-maxkay-gif.642745
 
Our forward line was poor but was far from the issue.
We still manage to over-handball and panic every single time, with ball use going forward the continuing issue.

The same issue we've always had, nobody with the 'threat' of breaking a line and drawing multiple opposition players, therefore every player that receives the ball is under pressure and puts the next player under more pressure until a rushed kick comes straight to the opposition nest of players.

Its not a chicken or egg scenario. The forwards are doing the right thing, but the delivery sucks so it looks like they're playing 20m behind their opponents.

We are still slow and predictable.
 
I was going say (jokingly): "So, you went to the AFLW game on Sunday --- oh wait --- you're a Hawks supporter! ;)"
but it would have demeaned your gracious post.
Thank you.
I'm glad the Crows supporters treated you well, but your good-natured banter at the game and your post itself also say good things about you :thumbsu:. Cheers!

To be completely honest, I was so, so grumpy and angry on Sat that I don't know how I would have reacted to some Hawk good-natured bantz. But that would have been on me, not them.
 
How many of these metres gained are long bombs to a contest or straight to the opposition? We have only leading forwards and put it loopy on their heads to disadvantage. We were by the goals and watched it loop in blindly over and over and over. Son got pretty frustrated that they could be so rubbish and he's 11.
Correct, the thing about chaos balls to the top of the Square, is they don’t work if there is an opposition player taking uncontested marks at will when you kick it.
 
Correct, the thing about chaos balls to the top of the Square, is they don’t work if there is an opposition player taking uncontested marks at will when you kick it.

I dont know how we were so poorly organised forward of the ball.
Not even a yelp of a contest half the night... pathetic.

Then again I think they were kicking to the wrong places.
 
I dont know how we were so poorly organised forward of the ball.
Not even a yelp of a contest half the night... pathetic.

Then again I think they were kicking to the wrong places.
It seemed to be a complete clusterf__k. Mids bombing to the wrong place, forwards not getting to correct positions, and absolutely no-one picking up the lose man in defense or even trying to make a contest.

The fact the Jarman bloody Impey had 6 intercept marks is a straight up travesty!
 

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I dont know how we were so poorly organised forward of the ball.
Not even a yelp of a contest half the night... pathetic.

Then again I think they were kicking to the wrong places.
Hawthorn very good at pushing us wide, meaning they only had a third of the forward 50 to defend. They always have a guy able to anticipate and drop off his man to go third up or intercept. We rarely went through the corridor. We needed to be more patient and spread their defence but, as usual, we lacked composure under pressure.
 
Our recruitment, particularly Ogilvy's drafting, is exceptional. Our trading has improved vastly since Noble's departure.

However, player retention and decision making about which players to keep/release remain as issues.

Partly agree but our recruitment v losses IMHO is worse

2017 gain
Bryce Gibbs for 10 and 16 ( I don't rate this trade as a win at this moment) We could have him for nothing at the end of this year.
Sam Gibson Gone)

Lost Charlie Cameron for pick 12

Went into draft with 12 and 42

2018 gains
McAdam in McGovern trade (time will tell but if was so good why didn't Carlton hold him. He has potential. A late starter to AFLand that's all)
Tyson Stengle for 68 ( Richmond may have delisted him or he didn't rate there)

Lost McGovern (time will tell but he was proving a cancer)

Went into draft and traded pick 19 for future 1st rounder but lost our future 1st rounder (time will tell)
 
Hawthorn very good at pushing us wide, meaning they only had a third of the forward 50 to defend. They always have a guy able to anticipate and drop off his man to go third up or intercept. We rarely went through the corridor. We needed to be more patient and spread their defence but, as usual, we lacked composure under pressure.
I think it was most evident from our Half back line. I thought Smith and Laird played as poorly as I ever remember them playing, partly due to their own poor decisions and execution, but also from Hawthorns prominant frontal pressure on these 2 specifically! Like we said all last year when we don't have that drive out of the backline we tend fall to pieces in attack.

Looks like Hawthorn noticed, i'm not sure our coaches did!
 
Partly agree but our recruitment v losses IMHO is worse

2017 gain
Bryce Gibbs for 10 and 16 ( I don't rate this trade as a win at this moment) We could have him for nothing at the end of this year.
Sam Gibson Gone)

Lost Charlie Cameron for pick 12

Went into draft with 12 and 42
Gibson cost us next to nothing. We overpaid on Gibbs, but made out like bandits with Cameron. In the end we came out about even - which is more than we would have done if Noble was still in charge.
2018 gains
McAdam in McGovern trade (time will tell but if was so good why didn't Carlton hold him. He has potential. A late starter to AFLand that's all)
Tyson Stengle for 68 ( Richmond may have delisted him or he didn't rate there)

Lost McGovern (time will tell but he was proving a cancer)

Went into draft and traded pick 19 for future 1st rounder but lost our future 1st rounder (time will tell)
How about we hold fire on 2018, until we've actually seen how these players turn out? It's not as if we've traded for known quantities (e.g. Cameron/Gibbs), so lets see how they develop before rushing to judgement?
 

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I think it was most evident from our Half back line. I thought Smith and Laird played as poorly as I ever remember them playing, partly due to their own poor decisions and execution, but also from Hawthorns prominant frontal pressure on these 2 specifically! Like we said all last year when we don't have that drive out of the backline we tend fall to pieces in attack.

Looks like Hawthorn noticed, i'm not sure our coaches did!
Yep they specifically sat on Laird, shut down Smith and sat on Chief. As Southerntakeover rightly pointed out, a tactic used by Geelong against us too in the past.

We're not that hard to counter when a coach sets out to stop us scoring.
 
Yep they specifically sat on Laird, shut down Smith and sat on Chief. As Southerntakeover rightly pointed out, a tactic used by Geelong against us too in the past.

We're not that hard to counter when a coach sets out to stop us scoring.
To me when you see a player as damaging and confident as Brodie Smith, turn around rather then taking the player on, or handpass over his shoulder to a 1 on 1, or choose to handpass to a manned up player on the boundary from a kick in, its a very very bad sign!

I saw all these things on multiple occasions on Saturday.

Its only week 1, but in a game where Sauce was being predictably ineffective, the mids seems to only want to bomb it to 3 on 1's, and the most damaging contested marking target in the forward line was Eddie Betts, this was by far the most disturbing part of that loss!
 
I dont know how we were so poorly organised forward of the ball.
Not even a yelp of a contest half the night... pathetic.

Then again I think they were kicking to the wrong places.

A little from column A, a little from column B. While our delivery was terrible, it wasn't something we were able to fix and the forward line continued to operate on the assumption of good delivery. When you can't fix the delivery, you need to try to fix the "reception" - like roving to a losing ruck. We (coaches / players) did not seem to make that adjustment.
 
Fish rots from the head.

From the chairman, through the board, to the CEO, to the head of football, into the coaching box and out into the playing list.
Against a side who zones from a stoppage better than anyone regardless of 666 and playing four smalls forward you’re gonna get it whacked.
Went in healthy and it’s all on match committee.
At least Clarko could stroll home. Everyone was already over the bridge.
 
Apologies if this has been brought up, avoided the forums for most of the week; but heard Campo saying we don't need to change much because we won alot of ball and contested possessions.

https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/17/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2015/12/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/14/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2019/1/adel-v-haw

All 4* games, we won contested ball, all 4* games we lost in a similar manner. He seems a bit clueless.

*edited to include 2015 Adelaide Oval loss
 
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Apologies if this has been brought up, avoided the forums for most of the week; but heard Campo saying we don't need to change much because we won alot of ball and contested possessions.

https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/17/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/14/adel-v-haw
https://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2019/1/adel-v-haw

All 3 games, we won contested ball, all 3 games we lost in a similar manner. He seems a bit clueless.
Even if we make the gf this year, this is a huge problem that is very worrying. We haven't learnt how to play against these tactics.
 

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