Bluemour Discussion Thread XVIII - Please Sir, Can We Have More?

[Fat Kent]

Well Lyons and pick 71 was traded to Gold Coast for picks 43 and 67 so we weren't the only club that didn't rate him.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Oh Ellis sooky lala

You'd be flat too if you were going to be playing for Carlton, only to find your choices are North Melbourne and St Kilda

 

[Kramer1]

Cameron fits our age profile perfectly and has been starved of opportunities.

Stuck behind the mighty ruck pairing of Callum Sinclair and Sam Reid...he was never a chance.

 

[Arr0w]

Well Lyons and pick 71 was traded to Gold Coast for picks 43 and 67 so we weren't the only club that didn't rate him.

Just shows how many recruiters/clubs have fails when it comes to certain types

 

[Wagyu Beef]

Just shows how many recruiters/clubs have fails when it comes to certain types

Then delisted by GC, obviously something there we don't know about him.

 

[Revenant1995]

Here's the thing - isn't this what we said last year?

We're getting Shiel, we're not getting Shiel, we're getting Shiel...welp, we missed out, but that's OK, we've got some solid role players, a couple of good kids, and we'll just go again next year with someone else.

Then next year rolls around and we're talking about missing out on Papley, bringing in a couple of kids, couple of role players, and going again next year.

If there's a genuinely good player in a position of significant need, and we can get him for two pick downgrades along with some solid role players in other positions of need, it makes far too much sense to just get it done. Reap the benefits on-field, convert that to benefits off-field. Take a look at next year's free agents, and tell me it's not critical for us to be as competitive as possible next year:

View attachment 740380

Genuine question...
What would be the chance of going for Whitfield this year, if so, what would it take, and what effect could this have on other possible trades such as Papley and Martin?

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Then delisted by GC, obviously something there we don't know about him.

To be fair, he wasn't delisted because they didn't see anything in him, they delisted him because he said he didn't want to play for the club and they're putting a huge focus on creating a good culture up there.

I'm still not sure why they didn't trade him, but I can at least understand the rationale behind it.

 

[Arr0w]

Genuine question...
What would be the chance of going for Whitfield this year, if so, what would it take, and what effect could this have on other possible trades such as Papley and Martin?

You could replace Papley with Whitfield

This year and next year's 1st for Whitfield
Martin for a future 2nd + this year's 3rd

 

[RoyalBlues]

Worth a listen:

LISTEN: Betts? Papley? Blues list manager reveals trade plans

Carlton list manager Michael Agresta joins Callum Twomey and Nat Edwards ahead of a big off-season at Ikon Park

www.afl.com.au

 

[jimsta10]

IMO SOS doesn't like 'one-dimensional' players.

He likes his midfielders to have speed. He likes his KPP to have elite endurance.

He doesn't like 'plodders' even if they are freaking good at what they do, week in, week out.

I think overall he is looking for players with x-factor or points of difference.

Kids like Lachie O was a cross country junior champion up in Mildura. Always liked his endurance abilities...

 

[Blutopia]

Then delisted by GC, obviously something there we don't know about him.

His salary.. Crows offloaded him for low picks because GC were going to pay him a decent rate and could have got him in preseason draft.

He was lazy defensively and wouldn’t work on it so they decided to salary dump and get rid of him and get Miles in cheaper from Richmond.

Lions picked him up and used him in a role where he didn’t need to be as defensive and found by focusing on his strengths that he was a key cog in their system.

 

[Faz 2000]

Genuine question...
What would be the chance of going for Whitfield this year, if so, what would it take, and what effect could this have on other possible trades such as Papley and Martin?

There's one way. Talk to Whitfield. Offer him millions. Convince him his future is at Carlton, only Carlton, must be Carlton. He has to be so convinced that he will go to GWS and tell them that he categorically will not be re-signing with them in 12 months time and that he will be exercising his free agency rights by signing at Carlton next year.

Then it becomes a realistic plan for GWS to trade him NOW for a king's ransom (2 first rounders, for instance), rather than lose him for just Free Agency compo in 12 months.

It's deeply unlikely. Not really any reason to think Whitfield is unhappy. GWS would do all in their power to take 12 months to convince him to stay, etc. And the difficulty from Carlton's point of view is we'd really have to be his ONLY choice for it to work - being a Melbourne-based team, there's always multiple other suitors for a player, so we'd more likely end up in a bidding war to convince GWS to send him to us rather than "only" having to beat the Free Agency compo threshold. A bit different to, say, the Dangerfield scenario where Geelong is a more unique/isolated place. One can "go home" to Geelong, but going home to Melbourne could be any of multiple clubs and reduces our leverage.

But SOS wouldn't be any good at his job if he's not at least trying it on.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Genuine question...
What would be the chance of going for Whitfield this year, if so, what would it take, and what effect could this have on other possible trades such as Papley and Martin?

Can't see Whitfield moving this year. Or more specifically, I can't see him moving to US this year.

We don't have the runs on the board. We're offering money and a pinky promise that we'll be good, he's already making money and GWS are a better chance than us next year. Then he can test the market.

He stands to earn an absolute mint on his next contract, and the best way to do that is to play the field. If he becomes "gettable" every club going around will be after him, so we'll be competing with the cashed up clubs (St Kilda, NM, WB, Freo) as well as the "successful" ones (Hawthorn, Geelong, also WB). He'll have to agree to terms with a club who can actually get a deal done with GWS, and even then there's no guarantee they play ball. In the meantime, trade week is dragging on and the other players we're interested in are taking a back seat to negotiations with Whitfield/GWS, resulting in some of those players being missed.

Whitfield lands squarely in the Coniglio bucket for me - take him as a free agent, ideally, or if it's to be a trade it needs to be when he's out of contract and GWS don't have the ability to drag it out til the final minutes.

 

[BlueJet]

Oh Ellis sooky lala

I'm not sure if he is or not but the perception that the club is burning players may not help our efforts elsewhere.

 

[Faz 2000]

Whitfield lands squarely in the Coniglio bucket for me - take him as a free agent, ideally,

Agree. We should ask this year, but I see no reason for him to have his heart so set on Carlton that he'd be remotely attainable, nor do I see any motivation really for GWS to play ball.

As a Free Agent, we should open the cheque-book and make our case as best we can.

 

[ferrisb]

I’m not sure why people are liking this, if you’re right, then SOS isn’t a very good list manager.
The same goes for the line, once SOS likes you, he always likes you, if true then, it’s a serious flaw and hopefully not the reason why we went with all of the Giants kids who have now been cut.

I just don’t buy it and I hope a lot is just not true.

There is nothing wrong with wanting points of difference and speed and endurance, but if SOS is overlooking players late in the draft or that are free, because they are one dimensional yet freaking good at that dimension, then he has rocks in his head.

I agree with you. I am not championing the perception of SOS's biases, just mentioning that that's how he appears to an outsider.

I guess a more flattering way to describe SOS's recruiting would be; he looks for players that have AFL-transferable skills. He wants to pick the guys that IF they turn out as hoped, then they are definitely good enough. But they might bust completely. As opposed to picking guys that might make VFL champions, but it's questionable (but entirely possible) that they make it AFL level.

Personally, I have always liked the not flashy, but gets the job done kind of player. So I have a soft spot for the players that lack a bit of polish but are competitive and high-production.

 

[GudOnya]

Whitfield would be great, but as far as I know Hawks have been pissing in his ear for years now, also a mad Hawthorn supporter growing up and was in the stands for a couple of their Grand Final wins.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but I won't be getting my hopes up about him this year or next.

 

[F_therest]

Still can't believe people wanting to give up 2 x 1sts for Papley + a 2nd

Some context

Cameron for Pick 12
Neale, Pick 30 for Pick 6, 19, 55
T Mitchell for pick 14
O'Meara for Pick 10 + 2nd rounder


Some Bargains

McCarthy for shuffling of 3rd/4th rounders
Brad Hill for pick 23 (Leaving Hawks)
Caddy for pick 24
Seedsman for Pick 32
Lyons = Free

Draft

Liam Ryan for Pick 26
Willie Rioli for Pick 52
Tim Kelly for Pick 24

Lastly, Tom Papley for Pick 14 Rookie Draft

It was for Papley & 2 x 2nd rounders & Cameron, not just 1 x 2nd rounder.

I do think though that pick 8 and steak knives is more than generous...or at most pick 8 & 2nd rounder.
However if SOS does the proposed trade, and swings some other deals from it like landing Martin, i'll back him in.

 

[Coops93]

Well Lyons and pick 71 was traded to Gold Coast for picks 43 and 67 so we weren't the only club that didn't rate him.

Also the Suns cut him and he went to the Lions for free.

There's a few rumours up here that he grind with coaches a bit and isn't the easiest guy to have in the locker room. Would make sense that we didn't want him around our young guys despite his on field proficiency, same with the Suns.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Only way we could get Whitfield is by trading three assets because no way are they going to accept pick 8 in an average draft and a future first pick when we would be excepted to play finals next season with him in the side.
Plus the little problem of convincing him to want to come to us when he would think he is a huge chance of a flag next season and will be getting his pay day regardless.

 

[F_therest]

Are you the poster formerly known as farktherest?
Look, I like Papley and I agree with many that he is the type of player we should chase but that proposed deal is extortion, you don’t sell the farm for a small forward. It’s a crazy price, we must value that future first as a top 5 pick.

I feel a few people have succumbed to the old sales tactic. Staunchly offer a $250K asset to a buyer for $1 million and then when you later throw in a bbq it starts to sound more reasonable.

I was keen on him, but at the price it appears the Swans will be asking we need to look elsewhere. I would prefer we focus on Martin and Gray and see what else is around. We need to look to bring quality players but we shouldn’t be desperate like accepting a deal like that.

And yes, that proposed deal will be significantly higher than what Geelong end up getting off WC for All Australian, goal kicking midfielder Kelly.

Yes i am...logged in one day and my names was changed because apparently my old version was offensive

I actually agree it's quite a high price to pay and overs, but IF SOS went with it i'd trust his judgement and be happy to land Papley & Martin, two players of the perfect type and age joining us. Let's see if he can get them cheaper.

You've mentioned it would be significantly higher than what Geelong get off WC...how do you know this? I'm pretty sure it won't be.

 

[Kruezing]

Stuck behind the mighty ruck pairing of Callum Sinclair and Sam Reid...he was never a chance.

And didn’t they opt for Allir after Sinclair got injured ? ...

 

[Weiterbot23]

Worth a listen:

View attachment 740439

LISTEN: Betts? Papley? Blues list manager reveals trade plans

Carlton list manager Michael Agresta joins Callum Twomey and Nat Edwards ahead of a big off-season at Ikon Park

www.afl.com.au

Yeah great listen, Agresta seems like a man who knows what he is doing.

I liked how adamant he was that DeKonning is a ruck, plus his confidence in Stocker.

 

[Heres Waite]

Worth a listen:

View attachment 740439

LISTEN: Betts? Papley? Blues list manager reveals trade plans

Carlton list manager Michael Agresta joins Callum Twomey and Nat Edwards ahead of a big off-season at Ikon Park

www.afl.com.au

Listening to Cain Liddle interview the other day and now this interview with Agresta, I really feel like the club is in such great hands!! Add to that key people in key areas such as Brad Lloyd, Russell, and now Teague.

 

[Kramer1]

And didn’t they opt for Allir after Sinclair got injured ? ...

Yeah but Cameron was definitely in the next 3-4 to be called up.