Bluemour Discussion Thread XVIII - Please Sir, Can We Have More?

[El Topo]

I agree Dow is going to be a gun, but he won't be a bash and crash player. He is going to make Cripps a much more dangerous player by using his burst to cap off Cripps grunt work. Fisher will be similar.

Harks alluded to it, Dow is built for the contest but was a young draftee and is still physically underdeveloped. What he brings is pure power and aggression - he won't just be a receiver for Cripps, he's going to release him to play more on the outside.

 

[Blue__Balls]

"AFL screwed us with Cogs, he was out the door..."

Could someone please explain to me how the AFL screwed us with Cogs??

IMO the AFL can't stop him from coming to us if he really wanted to.....

The theory is that our offer was X dollars, GWS offer was Y dollars, and the AFL promised Cogs Z dollars in "ambassadorial" payments if he stayed at GWS, where Y+Z=X or something to that effect.

Yes, Congilio could still have chosen to come to Carlton anyway, and he didn't. But the AFL shouldn't be padding out player earnings to manufacture list management outcomes for commercial gain.

Worth noting that this is all conjecture and hearsay, there's no evidence it did or did not occur and won't be unless a brave journo decides to risk their entire career on taking on AFL House.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The theory is that our offer was X dollars, GWS offer was Y dollars, and the AFL promised Cogs Z dollars in "ambassadorial" payments if he stayed at GWS, where Y+Z=X or something to that effect.

Yes, Congilio could still have chosen to come to Carlton anyway, and he didn't. But the AFL shouldn't be padding out player earnings to manufacture list management outcomes for commercial gain.

Worth noting that this is all conjecture and hearsay, there's no evidence it did or did not occur and won't be unless a brave journo decides to risk their entire career on taking on AFL House.

I could be wrong here but isn’t Nic Nat the highest paid ambassador for the AFL?
Also what’s bullshit is that last year with Lynch the AFL was saying they won’t guarantee Lynch any money until after the FA period then do the complete opposite with Cogs. Although by the sounds of things nothing was going to keep Lunch up there anyway.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I could be wrong here but isn’t Nic Nat the highest paid ambassador for the AFL?
Also what’s bulls**t is that last year with Lynch the AFL was saying they won’t guarantee Lynch any money until after the FA period then do the complete opposite with Cogs. Although by the sounds of things nothing was going to keep Lunch up there anyway.

Yeah I think your last part is more on the money with Lynch, from what I heard he was simply just not going to stay.

 

[dlb99]

I think we will see a different Kennedy after pre season being a lot fitter and will be more than handy running through the guts.

I thought he was a midfielder.

Reality is he plays best around half forward.

 

[Opine]

I thought he was a midfielder.

Reality is he plays best around half forward.

Yes, he certainly does.

 

[KnobHead]

"AFL screwed us with Cogs, he was out the door..."

Could someone please explain to me how the AFL screwed us with Cogs??

IMO the AFL can't stop him from coming to us if he really wanted to.....

Agree, it’s still Cog’s choice and if he was offered similar coin from GWS and us and chose GWS, well ...

What the concern is with Cog’s is that the AFL may have applied a generous interpretation of the salary cap rules so GWS could up their offer.

Then again, something similar happened with Judd



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[dlb99]

"AFL screwed us with Cogs, he was out the door..."

Could someone please explain to me how the AFL screwed us with Cogs??

IMO the AFL can't stop him from coming to us if he really wanted to.....

Agree.

Cogs, from what I heard, liked living in Sydney.
Cogs is from WA, no go home factor to come here.

He signed where he wanted to play.
If he was desperate to leave there was nothing stopping him leaving, no matter what Gil said or wanted.

Yes, AFL sweetener was added, but it was just sugar.

We move on to the next target.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Yep, I think we need another big body in the midfield. Wines would be fantastic.

Besides Cripps we don’t rly have anyone, would say Dow, Setters, Walsh etc are those bash and crash. Stocker may be that guy but still think we need one more.

Does anyone still think Kennedy could be that guy?

Finals footy is all about contested ball

A fit Stocker will be that player in time imo .
Not overly fussed if we miss out on Wines or similar its decent forward line smalls to surround our talls that are the missing pieces .

 

[Jorge]

Wines & Cripps together would be good to beat up on sides every now & then but ultimately I feel like we would be caught out on the defensive spread. We have Curnow racking up clearances for now anyway & Stocker will hopefully take his place eventually.

Would rather keep 2 first rounders.

 

[Arr0w]

Do think the Judd deal was ok -

Masten (average) Notte (terrible) Kennedy (elite in recent years especially)< Judd (club credibility lifting, Brownlow Medal, finals winning)


otherwise: the messiah yo yo years could return if we trade for Yeo and his brother Corey (who plays in the WAFL for Perth)!

Elliott missed his opportunity to have a stadium named after himself “Yeo Gabba Gabba”
. . . hope that doesn’t spark another kids chat!

I hate giving up multiple early picks for just one player

Perhaps the Judd deal would have been fine if we were serious contenders

Thankfully, I doubt SOS will overpay for any player in the next 2 trade periods, after that, sure, go hard

 

[CJMB]

I think this is why Wines would be a great addition. Because we have an absolute superstar in Cripps, but we rely on him winning 10 clearances a game. If we get Wines - a very good, but more limited player - I think we play Wines almost in the "primary" inside mid position, tell him to go a million miles an hour, and we see Cripps move into more impactful, hybrid roles. Arguably all of Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Martin (and Cotchin too) have become better players and their team better once they weren't always playing as #1 pure-possession midfielder. I bet Fyfe wishes he had more help.

Of course Cripps' "1-wood" (to use the parlance of our times) is still inside work, but I bet he'd relish starting 1-out in the goal square sometimes, or getting more time on the bench, or being able to switch out to a "gentler" role for periods of games.

Just a thought. Agresta said it, can't have too many good players. I think help in there would be great, and whilst Wines (or similar) may not have versatility, it might allow Cripps to shine even brighter with his. Would be pretty luxurious to be able to send a fresh Cripps into the middle for a "must-win" clearance, right?

Agreed. While Wines is not the perfect addition for us, I think we'd rather someone a bit more dynamic and with a greater mix of inside/outside ability (ie Cogs, Kelly, even Shiel to be honest), he still fits in pretty well.

As opposed to Melbourne where you'd be trying to fit in all of Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Jones, Harmes, etc. Jones is near the end but the rest are all still pretty young and I think it's clear that you can't play Brayshaw in that outside/wing role they did for a significant chunk of this year. Even with Langdon they'd still probably start with Gawn, Oliver, Viney and Wines in the square with Brayshaw and Langdon on the wings and Harmes and Jones on the bench. Feel like they'd do ok in the clearances and initial contests but be absolutely murdered on the spread.

We'd have Cripps and Wines as the big dogs surrounded by other types in Murph, Walsh, Setters, O'Brien, Dow, SPS, (Martin?) etc. Ed is sort of similar to Cripps & Wines in that he thrives in that inside contested role, but he also has the running ability and can go outside and tag a winger/other mid.

 

[Benaly28]

If you read the article re Cogs/Whitfield reads as Whitfield is no chance of leaving.

 

[Benaly28]

Would be a walk up

Who’s spot does he take in the backline?
Weitering,Jones,Marchbank or Plowman?

 

[BuxbaumBixby]

Agree, it’s still Cog’s choice and if he was offered similar coin from GWS and us and chose GWS, well ...

What the concern is with Cog’s is that the AFL may have applied a generous interpretation of the salary cap rules so GWS could up their offer.

Then again, something similar happened with Judd



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Of course - ultimately it was Cogs' decision - but don't you have any issue with the AFL being involved in list management and trading as a general rule?

I think that the AFL would have evened up the money side of things with the ambassadorial role - but I also think that Gil would've been on the phone to Cogs about how key he was to the GWS, how he needed him to stay etc etc - and to me - that's well outside the role of Gil and his mates at head office. (maybe the AFLPA needs a stronger voice in this as a circuit breaker - what's in the best interests of Gil might not always be in the best interests of the player etc)

I'm still surprised that the Scully trade hasn't gone under more scrutiny. Fabricated the extent of his injury to get him to his desired location to help GWS get through their salary cap issues. Totally orchestrated by Gil and his mates.

I just think AFL House needs to totally back off when it comes to list management and trading - not just with my navy blue tinted glasses but for the whole comp.

 

[Space Cadet]

On one hand, watching out performances this year it looks obvious that a player like a Wines would make us a much better team. But it's not hard to see the likes of Walsh, Setters, Dow, hopefully Stocker become hard bodies around stoppages pretty soon.

Watching the Eagles last night highlights the importance of genuinely dangerous small/half forwards. Players like Ryan just make things happen, it's exciting when they have the ball. Closest to that one our list would be maybe Cunners and Murphy (I wanna include Charlie here too).
These types of players don't seem to always take long to develop, could we draft one?

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

I am pro us adding a gun mid but I also think people need to be a bit patient with Dow, SPS, LOB, Setterfield etc. Were 2 seasons minimum away from seeing what they really are. Footy is so physical these days, kids just can’t compete at quite the same level.

 

[Faz 2000]

Who’s spot does he take in the backline?
Weitering,Jones,Marchbank or Plowman?

Really doesn't matter. He'd push Marchbank out in my opinion due to versatility and mobility. He could also play on the wing. But I wouldn't bother, I think we have far more pressing needs.

 

[Blue Pulse]

It’s a little like the ‘free transfer’ in soccer. If Eddie wants out the Crows should let him go without playing games. He’s given them good enough service to deserve that outcome.

I hear what your saying Robbo, but Eddy has grown on the Crows faithful and is a popular figure for them. If they give him away for nothing, I reckon there will be a riot from the members who aren't happy as it is.

If we picked up Martin or Papley, Eddy may be excess to our needs. There has to be a bigger picture for us to get Eddy, than just playing for us, coaching, mentor etc, he may even boost our membership. It comes down to Eddy, saying he wants out and wants to come back home. If he says he just wants out and it becomes a choice between us and GC we need to walk away.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Who’s spot does he take in the backline?
Weitering,Jones,Marchbank or Plowman?

He doesn't play in the backline. He plays on a wing.

 

[Red Bull]

NicNat, Redden and Yeo physically beat the hell out of the Essendon midfield.

Big strong midfields often prevail in September.
Wines anybody ?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Whitfield unlikely to leave....but if he does, he'll be 100% going to the Hawks.

If you don't believe me, just pop your head over to their board

 

[FlowersByIrene]

"AFL screwed us with Cogs, he was out the door..."

Could someone please explain to me how the AFL screwed us with Cogs??

IMO the AFL can't stop him from coming to us if he really wanted to.....

They made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

 

[Manhattanite]

When does Petracca play midfield?

I don't see Wines as an A-Grader - Cripps, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Martin, Neale....but not Wines.
The term gets bandied about somewhat loosely, but ask Port whether they see Wines as an A-Grader.
Reckon most would be thrilled to net the two first rounders for him, that we somehow seem to be willing to let go for him.

No offense but Wines has more Brownlow votes (32) the last two years than most of the names you’ve mentioned (including Cripps) so you’re the one who is being loose with definitions. I know Brownlow votes aren’t everything but it’s worth a lot more than quoting what posters on the Port Big Footy page say as your deep analysis.




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[gab213]

I could be wrong here but isn’t Nic Nat the highest paid ambassador for the AFL?
Also what’s bulls**t is that last year with Lynch the AFL was saying they won’t guarantee Lynch any money until after the FA period then do the complete opposite with Cogs. Although by the sounds of things nothing was going to keep Lunch up there anyway.

I'm not convinced that the AFL had anything to do with Coniglio's decision. Everything we heard from the start was that he was likely to stay where he was but that if he did choose to leave it would be to us. As far as the ambassador role goes he has been a multicultural ambassador for the AFL since 2014.